Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 1:19:31 GMT -5
I didn't scream one bit about what you said, I just was arguing the point that just because I'm younger than you doesn't make your point more valid than mine.
Sure, I didn't experience all that you may have. But I'm not just blindly accepting the junk that Mcmahon serves me. I enjoy TNA matches and other matches posted here on the forums, and I enjoy the past as well (minus the WWE revisionist history).
Again, don't use your age as a measuring stick to views and don't classify me because of my age. The problem with minors is that they don't respect their elders. While I try to, whenever possible. The problem with elders is that they underestimate minors.
Don't underestimate me because of my age.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 1:21:12 GMT -5
Eh, I think I've said my peace chief. Don't draw the blade for my sake.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 15, 2006 1:22:11 GMT -5
The part of that argument I can appreciate, however, is that many people our age (I'm 21) do frame wrestling with the idea of either Rock n' Wrestling or "Attitude" in mind, and I'm hard pressed to say it doesn't make an impact on people's perception of other companies.
Whether or not that applies to YOU is a different argument altogether, and one I don't want anyone starting.
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Post by THE Dinobot on Dec 15, 2006 1:25:19 GMT -5
If wishes were fishes, the world would be an ocean.
Age has nothing to do with Vince McMahon being an idiot. Well, maybe it does for him, since he may be losing it up stairs, but as a fan, it doesn't mean a thing.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Dec 15, 2006 1:27:32 GMT -5
The part of that argument I can appreciate, however, is that many people our age (I'm 21) do frame wrestling with the idea of either Rock n' Wrestling or "Attitude" in mind, and I'm hard pressed to say it doesn't make an impact on people's perception of other companies. I can't help but look back with fondness on Rock n' Wrestling, because that's what got me into it in the first place. Then I started getting into things like the old NWA, then WCW, then ECW (around 1994/5 for ECW, I love having lived in the region that got early ECW on syndication). I believe that growing up in the age of wrestling that I did, when such a broad scope of wrestling was available to watch, gives me the ability to watch a grand scope of wrestling and look at it objectively. That's one of the problems with the IWC, it is never truely objective.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Dec 15, 2006 1:39:57 GMT -5
I think it gets judged more harshly because all the hardcore TNA marks would go on and on about how WWE is crap and they would talk about TNA like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread #2. They made it seem like TNA never does anything wrong. At least when WWE does something stupid even the WWE marks will crap on it.
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messiah
Don Corleone
Wobbly.
Posts: 1,871
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Post by messiah on Dec 15, 2006 1:40:11 GMT -5
People definatly do crap on TNA more than they do the WWE, all things considered. I still don't know why, but all things considered, per capita if you will, they do. It's probably because it's easier always to side with the big dog than the little guy. I may have at times taken what may be described as a pro-TNA stance, but I don't think I've given them a blank cheque. It's just that I got so tired of the E, so long ago that I really want them to succeed, without losing sight of the fact that at the end of the day they are still just another corproate entity and damn them for it. But that's another issue.
I think, realistically, TNA for what it is provides better wrestling, better TV and far superior PPVs. It doesn't have all the gltiz and glamour of McMahon-Land but that's okay. In a lot of ways, I see TNA as what WCW should have been. They are still making some of the mistakes that WCW did, and there's a lot of the same people around and that probably leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths but that's life. I think in time, and if they stay smart, TNA could be something truly big and great in the wrestling world. I hope for that, I don't know if that will be the case.
The fans are just impatient, I think, and rather spoilt. They don't appreciate how much companies like TNA and ROH even have done in 5 years or so and what a valuable service they provide to product that has been so over-exposed, saturated, hegemonized and bastardized. Not that anyone should get a free ride, but I don't think the criticisms of TNA are usually fair or realistic.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 1:41:09 GMT -5
I think it gets judged more harshly because all the hardcore TNA marks would go on and on about how WWE is crap and they would talk about TNA like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread #2. They made it seem like TNA never does anything wrong. At least when WWE does something stupid even the WWE marks will crap on it. Pretty much, from my experience anyway.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 15, 2006 1:41:39 GMT -5
If wishes were fishes, the world would be an ocean. Age has nothing to do with Vince McMahon being an idiot. Well, maybe it does for him, since he may be losing it up stairs, but as a fan, it doesn't mean a thing. Oh, of course not. I'm just saying I see his point in saying "You, as a fan who's likely spent most of your life associating the word 'wrestling' with 'Vince McMahon', are likely going to allow that background to color your perception somewhat when viewing different products." It doesn't mean people will blindly follow Vince, but I certainly do think some people watch TNA, find it "unfamiliar", and are thus turned off by it. Hell, I was that way when I was a kid, and I caught some tapes of old Midwest shows; to me, they didn't feel right, because the only wrestling I knew of at that point was early 90's WWF. Obviously, you outgrow that with time, but, for a lot of people, that bias is never going to completely vanish.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 15, 2006 1:45:25 GMT -5
The part of that argument I can appreciate, however, is that many people our age (I'm 21) do frame wrestling with the idea of either Rock n' Wrestling or "Attitude" in mind, and I'm hard pressed to say it doesn't make an impact on people's perception of other companies. I can't help but look back with fondness on Rock n' Wrestling, because that's what got me into it in the first place. Then I started getting into things like the old NWA, then WCW, then ECW (around 1994/5 for ECW, I love having lived in the region that got early ECW on syndication). I believe that growing up in the age of wrestling that I did, when such a broad scope of wrestling was available to watch, gives me the ability to watch a grand scope of wrestling and look at it objectively. That's one of the problems with the IWC, it is never truely objective. Ah, you were one of the lucky ones; only other wrestling I had any prayer of getting exposed to back in the day was 1990's WCW, and that felt nearly impossible to find during the early 90's, and, in the mid 90's, eh...that really wasn't something worth watching at that point. I do wish more people had been around (myself included) to see a time when we had three major national companies going around (WWF, NWA, AWA); really wasn't all THAT long ago, when you think about it. Just long enough.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 1:46:13 GMT -5
No, of course it's not going to completely.
Of course the same could be same for the territories.
Not to bash them, as they were the breeding grounds and the life stream of modern day wrestling, but I think part of this maybe the longing for something different than now. And glorifying the past (a la Cartman always singing about being somewhere else). That being said, I wouldn't mind watching a few old tapes of them.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 2:17:29 GMT -5
The part of that argument I can appreciate, however, is that many people our age (I'm 21) do frame wrestling with the idea of either Rock n' Wrestling or "Attitude" in mind, and I'm hard pressed to say it doesn't make an impact on people's perception of other companies. I can't help but look back with fondness on Rock n' Wrestling, because that's what got me into it in the first place. Then I started getting into things like the old NWA, then WCW, then ECW (around 1994/5 for ECW, I love having lived in the region that got early ECW on syndication). I believe that growing up in the age of wrestling that I did, when such a broad scope of wrestling was available to watch, gives me the ability to watch a grand scope of wrestling and look at it objectively. This is an exception, rather than a rule. Unfortunately, many people lost out on local/regionally televised promotions (they were killed off), the Crockett Mid-Atlantic and GCW (though the proliferation of WCW slightly nullifies things), the AWA (ESPN wasn't a cable lock in many markets, like it is now (anchoring almost every "extended cable" package in the United States, and that's if they were not lucky enough to have seen it when it was sydnicated. For a lot of markets, WWF was about all they got for televised wrestling. I wish it wasn't that way, but I can't change history. Or on-point. My point about age had to do with people cutting WWE far too much slack, when it deserves to be under a microscope since it really is the only national, touring (SPIKE tv still doesn't have the market penetration of the USA network, beleive it or not. I know of several cable systems where SPIKE is not carried, and then there's the VSOD services phone companies are offering that seems to be either/or with USA and SPIKE: you get one or the other more often than both, as pat of such packages) promotion out there, and for the last five years it was the ONLY nationally televised promotion in the U. S., and from between 2001-2003 they were the only wrestling promotion available in nation-wide syndication (via Afterburn/Bottom Line). TNA Xplosion came later, but for the U. S. it has only been available in a handful of markets (and has always been produced more as an international package than for domestic purposes). Now only Xplosion remains (in like 10-15 markets, out of several hundred, so I use "national" loosely for Xplosion). The point was a lot of the people on Wrestlecrap (mostly under 30) are most likely using WWE as a litmus for what they demand from TNA, and be it out of nostalgia or masochistic tendencies, they don't berate WWE for larger crimes committed against the world of professional wrestling. Age only came into play when trying to rationalize the irrational overubundance of TNA bashing here.
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Dec 15, 2006 2:23:04 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for someone to come charging into WC screaming I HAVE A LIST! and start holding hearings for the House Un-Logical Activities Committee. I have yet to see an IWC. Especially here when there is a ton of descent. Am I just not branching off to enough places to see this conspiracy? Are we an island of sanity?
But I would agree that one problem is people comparing TNA to WCW or WWE. I'm eighteen and I remember watching Goldberg Vs. Raven on WCW Nitro. But I don't see how they can point to DX or NWO and say this is how it should be done. I think more people on these forums at least point to ECW, ROH, or Japan and say that is how it should be done. Any comparison to WWE is purely nostalgic in nature.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 2:42:56 GMT -5
I think it gets judged more harshly because all the hardcore TNA marks would go on and on about how WWE is crap and they would talk about TNA like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread #2. They made it seem like TNA never does anything wrong. At least when WWE does something stupid even the WWE marks will crap on it. Laughable. I find that it's the WWE marks who are threatened by TNA, so they unleash on it. Inversely, anyone who celebrates TNA probably does so more because WWE are so crappy that even a slug like Vince Russo seems like a wunderkind when juxtaposed to Dave Lagana, Brain Gerwurtz, Kevin Dunn, Vince and Steffanie and Jean Paul McMahon's brainfarts. It also helps that TNA actually has more than 30 minutes of in-ring wrestling in its 45 minute show, juxtaposed to WWE's average of 30 minutes of in-ring wrestling on a ninety to ninety-five minute episode of RAW. Then again, I am responding to "wwerules60" I know that I embrace TNA more, not so much because of what is being booked (the do have great in-ring talent and the best PPVs in North America) but because the only alternatives are to turn my back on televised wrestling (not gonna do it) or the McCrapfests, whch are Tivo fodder, at best. TNA is not sliced bread. That'd be ROH or JAPW or Pro Wrestling NOAH combined into a pimento loaf with swiss on delicious, slightly toasted, whole grain sourdough bread, baked with wholesome, nutritious, wrestling-based goodness and garnished with a yummy kosher dill pickel. Not stale, Stamford pumpernickle crumbs that has been collecting mold since Ernie Roth accidentally dropped them under the Madisson Square Garden floorboards when he worked his last WWWF show. NOAH, ROH or JAPW are not televised nationally; that consistent, reliable onion-garlic bagel known as TNA is, however.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 2:46:40 GMT -5
No, of course it's not going to completely. Of course the same could be same for the territories. Rush Limbaugh-like spin here. You'll be glad that you did. Nothing's better than learning from history, regardless if you stumble onto some duds (i. e. AWF).
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thiazzi
Bubba Ho-Tep
FEAR
Posts: 598
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Post by thiazzi on Dec 15, 2006 2:54:13 GMT -5
I don't crap on TNA because they're just trying new stuff to see what sticks. Kinda like WCW when they had nWo and Blood Runs Cold going at the same time as a bunch of other crap. nWo stuck and stuck hard, so they ran with it. I only crap on the absolutely ridiculous in wrestling, like how the X Division got buried like a muhfugga and how Raw barely has wrestling anymore.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 2:55:37 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for someone to come charging into WC screaming I HAVE A LIST! and start holding hearings for the House Un-Logical Activities Committee. I have yet to see an IWC. Especially here when there is a ton of descent. Am I just not branching off to enough places to see this conspiracy? Are we an island of sanity? Humor appreciated and points well made. I blame Wade Keller for the bulls@#t IWC moniker. Anything for some smakrs to feel like there's solidarity beyond the thin veneer that actually is shared (wrestling fans talking on the net - a cosmetic surface, at best).
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 2:58:46 GMT -5
I don't crap on TNA because they're just trying new stuff to see what sticks. Kinda like WCW when they had nWo and Blood Runs Cold going at the same time as a bunch of other crap. nWo stuck and stuck hard, so they ran with it. I only crap on the absolutely ridiculous in wrestling, like how the X Division got buried like a muhfugga At the hands of Mr. "Vanilla Midgets," Nash, no less. If you call that "wrestling!"
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Dec 15, 2006 3:15:08 GMT -5
also I think that TNA knows what they're doing with their product better then the wwe.
TNA is like a weird family friendly version of the attitude era with all the run-ins and russo madness but not going overboard and making the women prostitutes and having a man perform oral sex on live t.v.
where as WWE doesn't seem to know what in the world they're doing. Take for instance the ECW brand, now sure this is kind of easy but if it was the real ECW there would be tons of swearing and beer drinking and what have you but the wwe version of ECW they tried to turn it into a more family oriented product but try to keep the beer drinking and violence... Hell we can even talk about how the new DX doesn't seem right with the weird family friendly style skits but having them be raunchy like the old skits... yeah these things don't seem to mix well do they? well they don't in my opinion, I mean censoring stuff at an ECW show seems bizzare.
but anyway I think I went a little overboard with this post, all I'll say is that I support TNA's product and they are doing a pretty good job. they're building up they're matches nicely and alot of the guys are trying to put on great matches in the ring time after time again. and really that's all you need to run a good wrestling promotion on t.v. nowadays.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 3:24:44 GMT -5
where as WWE doesn't seem to know what in the world they're doing. Take for instance the ECW brand, now sure this is kind of easy but if it was the real ECW there would be tons of swearing and beer drinking and what have you but the wwe version of ECW they tried to turn it into a more family oriented product but try to keep the beer drinking and violence... Hell we can even talk about how the new DX doesn't seem right with the weird family friendly style skits but having them be raunchy like the old skits... yeah these things don't seem to mix well do they? well they don't in my opinion, I mean censoring stuff at an ECW show seems bizzare. Two words: "ECW Rules," as a special attraction on (WW)ECW... Pretty much says it all, doesn't it?
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