Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 4:13:01 GMT -5
No, of course it's not going to completely. Of course the same could be same for the territories. [glow=red,2,300]Rush Limbaugh-like spin here.[/glow] You'll be glad that you did. Nothing's better than learning from history, regardless if you stumble onto some duds (i. e. AWF). Read before you post. And don't insult me with while you're using spins as well.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 4:15:59 GMT -5
I think it gets judged more harshly because all the hardcore TNA marks would go on and on about how WWE is crap and they would talk about TNA like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread #2. They made it seem like TNA never does anything wrong. At least when WWE does something stupid even the WWE marks will crap on it. Laughable. I find that it's the WWE marks who are threatened by TNA, so they unleash on it. Inversely, anyone who celebrates TNA probably does so more because WWE are so crappy that even a slug like Vince Russo seems like a wunderkind when juxtaposed to Dave Lagana, Brain Gerwurtz, Kevin Dunn, Vince and Steffanie and Jean Paul McMahon's brainfarts. It also helps that TNA actually has more than 30 minutes of in-ring wrestling in its 45 minute show, juxtaposed to WWE's average of 30 minutes of in-ring wrestling on a ninety to ninety-five minute episode of RAW. Then again, I am responding to "wwerules60" I know that I embrace TNA more, not so much because of what is being booked (the do have great in-ring talent and the best PPVs in North America) but because the only alternatives are to turn my back on televised wrestling (not gonna do it) or the McCrapfests, whch are Tivo fodder, at best. TNA is not sliced bread. That'd be ROH or JAPW or Pro Wrestling NOAH combined into a pimento loaf with swiss on delicious, slightly toasted, whole grain sourdough bread, baked with wholesome, nutritious, wrestling-based goodness and garnished with a yummy kosher dill pickel. Not stale, Stamford pumpernickle crumbs that has been collecting mold since Ernie Roth accidentally dropped them under the Madisson Square Garden floorboards when he worked his last WWWF show. NOAH, ROH or JAPW are not televised nationally; that consistent, reliable onion-garlic bagel known as TNA is, however. I can't tell you how many times have heard TNA fans bashing WWE fans. FAR MORE than what WWE fans have done, from my experience anyway. And you make better points when you remain on the subject and not bashing the people you are debating. Again, smacks of elitism and immaturity. For an "above thirty year ago" anyway.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2006 7:11:54 GMT -5
Anyone who considers themselves a "TNA Mark" or "WWE Mark" is a jackoff.
I'm a mark for good wrestling, I could care less where I get it from.
I'm equally critical of both promotions when they deserve to be.
Wrestling isn't politics, you don't have to choose a party.
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Post by Kevwhatshisname on Dec 15, 2006 12:20:02 GMT -5
Thats the problem with some fans, they will give WWE the benefit of the doubt. So what WWE HAS done great things, but when in the last 6 years? Name me an Stone Cold vs. Vince like angle. WWE has been crap for years but TNA can have a bad ppv and people are counting down the days until Vince kills them. Even though I quoted this guy, I'm not pointing his out. It just seems people rather wait for WWE to be great again than check out anything else, or check it out and lose patience quicker than they would WWE. In the last six years? Wrestlemania XX: Beniot and Eddie. And that's just one thing. Edit: And yes the WWE hasn't had an Austin/Vince angle level in quite some time. But again, TNA has never had one. You may called me a blind WWE mark, but I'm just saying how I look at the two. I'm giving TNA my time by fairly watching before deciding like some others have. But if you gave me an either or question, right now I would take WWE. TNA wasn't been a wrestling fed for decades like the other. If TNA did an angle of that caliber, I'd bet some people will crap on it and when WWE does something half-right WWE will be praised like its the second coming of the Attitude ear.
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Post by Kevwhatshisname on Dec 15, 2006 13:01:01 GMT -5
Anyone who considers themselves a "TNA Mark" or "WWE Mark" is a jackoff. I'm a mark for good wrestling, I could care less where I get it from. I'm equally critical of both promotions when they deserve to be. Wrestling isn't politics, you don't have to choose a party. Not everyone is like you. People ride with WWE like its their favorite team. And some go out of their way to root against TNA. There is the inverse of course. (TNA fans bashing WWE) I can understand WWE bashing more because of the fact WWE has proven themselves as crap in my opinion and those fans are fed up. TNA bashing seems to be from people who watched a show or two and saying "I tried to get into it but couldn't." I don't know, maybe they couldn't. I like what TNA is doing. And if they give me crap you will read it from me.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 13:55:00 GMT -5
This from the boy who cried agism.
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 15, 2006 13:59:15 GMT -5
I can't tell you how many times have heard TNA fans bashing WWE fans. FAR MORE than what WWE fans have done, from my experience anyway. You also cried agism when that wasn't the point. You're a touch sensitive, kiddo. Lead by example. It might be hard when you have limited life experiences to mine for inspiration, but the ball's in your court. So far, you're not off to a good start.
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Post by Timmy8271 on Dec 15, 2006 15:17:20 GMT -5
WWE sadly has the right to put on crap. They have there fan base and that won't change. The arenas will be filled for raw on monday and smackdown on tuesday. People will still watch.
TNA doesn't have the time and prestige to put on the amount of crap they do at times. Sure DX's comedy segments suck badly but in the long run, It won't hurt the E at all. VKM and Russo's hard-on for WWE bashing will.
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therob
Hank Scorpio
Mcginley to Slim's O'neil
Posts: 7,257
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Post by therob on Dec 15, 2006 16:55:35 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for someone to come charging into WC screaming I HAVE A LIST! and start holding hearings for the House Un-Logical Activities Committee. I have yet to see an IWC. Especially here when there is a ton of descent. Am I just not branching off to enough places to see this conspiracy? Are we an island of sanity? But I would agree that one problem is people comparing TNA to WCW or WWE. I'm eighteen and I remember watching Goldberg Vs. Raven on WCW Nitro. But I don't see how they can point to DX or NWO and say this is how it should be done. I think more people on these forums at least point to ECW, ROH, or Japan and say that is how it should be done. Any comparison to WWE is purely nostalgic in nature. I already uncovered the IWC Conspiracy it is an Illuminati like group that controls the opinions of Internet wrestling fans and worships a god like creature named Benoit.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 17:01:17 GMT -5
I can't tell you how many times have heard TNA fans bashing WWE fans. FAR MORE than what WWE fans have done, from my experience anyway. You also cried agism when that wasn't the point. You're a touch sensitive, kiddo. Lead by example. It might be hard when you have limited life experiences to mine for inspiration, but the ball's in your court. So far, you're not off to a good start. ... I can't even respond to the latter. So because I have limited life experiences compared to you... You have the right to insult me and others while trying to prove your point? That sounds like agism to me. Are you sure you're older than me?
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Dec 15, 2006 17:07:18 GMT -5
You also cried agism when that wasn't the point. You're a touch sensitive, kiddo. Lead by example. It might be hard when you have limited life experiences to mine for inspiration, but the ball's in your court. So far, you're not off to a good start. ... I can't even respond to the latter. So because I have limited life experiences compared to you... You have the right to insult me and others while trying to prove your point? That sounds like agism to me. Are you sure you're older than me? Time for me to barge into this. Boku, I am your age, and I am confused as to why you felt disrespected by vinniemac. All he did was use an observation of his that he has noticed. He also didn't say "That the way it is," instead he was saying that GENERALLY the over/under 30 years of age theory holds true based on what he has seen over the years. Seriously, you got all worked up over nothing. Not trying to be rude.
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Boku AKA Da Green Guy
El Dandy
WC's Resident Pirate Otaku and Official Scapegoat
Always and Forever, Hurricane.
Posts: 8,371
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Post by Boku AKA Da Green Guy on Dec 15, 2006 17:39:36 GMT -5
... I can't even respond to the latter. So because I have limited life experiences compared to you... You have the right to insult me and others while trying to prove your point? That sounds like agism to me. Are you sure you're older than me? Time for me to barge into this. Boku, I am your age, and I am confused as to why you felt disrespected by vinniemac. All he did was use an observation of his that he has noticed. He also didn't say "That the way it is," instead he was saying that GENERALLY the over/under 30 years of age theory holds true based on what he has seen over the years. Seriously, you got all worked up over nothing. Not trying to be rude. Yes, I know what he was trying to say. It just came accross as arrogant and ignorant. The thing is that when you start using absoutles like those under thirty can't do this or can't comprehend this it makes for an ignorant comment. Basically if he had said it a different way, I wouldn't have been bothered by it. But then came the insulting with the rebutuals, which is a VERY immature way of dealing with people. And he tells me I'm off to a bad start. I was even finished trying to reason with him and he attacked me calling me a spin doctor. When he did the same damn thing when looking at my comments in my sig. So maybe I am a touchy "kiddo" but I'm not going to let someone bash me because he leads by example, showing how respectful someone should be (except his are laughable at best). Thus making him a hypocrite in a way. Or for lack of a better term, an elitist. Because since he's more experienced, he can call people names and then say that others are the immature ones. Whatever, I'm done. I said my views on the TNA/WWE bashfest and I stand by them. And I don't need to be dragging down a thread just because someone's a jerk. Cheers.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 16, 2006 3:03:59 GMT -5
WWE sadly has the right to put on crap. They have there fan base and that won't change. The arenas will be filled for raw on monday and smackdown on tuesday. People will still watch. TNA doesn't have the time and prestige to put on the amount of crap they do at times. Sure DX's comedy segments suck badly but in the long run, It won't hurt the E at all. VKM and Russo's hard-on for WWE bashing will. That doesn't really answer why places like here have the reactions they do to it. That really just point out that there are a LOT of people out there who will attend WWE events, no matter how awful they might be (see: fans who attend and boo everything they see, etc.).
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vinniemac
Don Corleone
No Chance In Hell
Posts: 1,967
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Post by vinniemac on Dec 16, 2006 4:13:06 GMT -5
Yes, I know what he was trying to say. It just came accross as arrogant and ignorant. The thing is that when you start using absoutles like those under thirty can't do this or can't comprehend [d gloves and waltzed around the point and never really made it then it'd be okay. However, respecting people enough to basically jump right to the point in my observation is not??? Because you keep bringing up the "maturity" issue, but fail to practice what you're preaching. Because I held you to the standards you threw out there (in your jump to conclude I was lambasting na entire generation when I was throwing my two cents on why there is proportionately more - unneccessary - TNA bashing than WWE bashing) that's "imature?" I never brought issues of "maturity" into our discourse. YOU DID. Your'e 19. That's fine by me. I miss being 19. Man, do I miss it. Well, actually 21 more than 19, but it's negligable. Regardless, you're acting your age. I wouldn't expect nor demand any more or less, but you're really jumping to conclusions, making a mountain out of a molehill, and your youthful angst is working against any agument you had. Especially when someone 19 years of age feels the need to bring up "maturity." No. I called your rationalization in blowing off WWF/E's craptacularity by saying, "even the territories did it," but didn't elaborate much on that point. I read that statement as "spin doctoring," since you provided no points to flesh out your rationalization, and in the end the main point was trying to put a band aid on salient points/crriticism towards WWF/E rather than just being a straight shooter and saying, "yeah, the WWE have doen crap." It's like someone who feels guilty for loving the WWE and feels the need to apologize for like it, and apologize for the company. [quote[] When he did the same damn thing when looking at my comments in my sig. You put them in your sig. They are a declaration. I brought them up because I realized that you're most likely biased in favor of the WWE because you like to wear their product on yoru proverbial sleeve. " It was not an attack but an observation that you took as an attack. if I am talking about Steve Austin with a guy who has an Austin shirt on, and he only talkes about the WWF Austin - is it wrong to say, "I know why you talk about that Austin era so much, lookin' at your shirt." He can correct me, or agree with me, but if he goes off about how that's an insult; it's childish. Again, you brought the "maturity" issue inot the debate. I did not. You threw it around over and over again so I called you on your criteria and pointed out that if you want something you need to lead by example. The same goes with the age issue. It was one observation out of a larger opinion and you zeroed in on one part and blew it grotesquely out of proportion. Then came the "maturity" rants. If you don't go into those things then you don't have to confront those issues in the civil discourse. Did I call you a "jerk, " or a "moron" or an Idiot," or a litany of names and insults? No. Yet you did. That, to me is immaturity - an issue YOU brought up, but since you brought it up, I'm going to hold you to the yardstick you waved about. You're not measuring up.
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Post by Timmy8271 on Dec 16, 2006 15:01:27 GMT -5
WWE sadly has the right to put on crap. They have there fan base and that won't change. The arenas will be filled for raw on monday and smackdown on tuesday. People will still watch. TNA doesn't have the time and prestige to put on the amount of crap they do at times. Sure DX's comedy segments suck badly but in the long run, It won't hurt the E at all. VKM and Russo's hard-on for WWE bashing will. That doesn't really answer why places like here have the reactions they do to it. That really just point out that there are a LOT of people out there who will attend WWE events, no matter how awful they might be (see: fans who attend and boo everything they see, etc.). Eh, I can't predict the reactions here. They change on the hour.
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Post by kayfabe ate my baby on Dec 16, 2006 18:09:45 GMT -5
I think it has to do with expectations, and managing expectations.
First - I totally agree with the point made about the overshilling. Don't tell me how great a match is, or how great a match is going to be. If it isn't great, or turns out to be only average (or worse), it comes looking much worse. (Also - I think some of the VKM skits while making accurate points about WWE programming come across as hypocritical to a lot of folks.)
Secondly, I'd say at this point, people know what to expect from WWE booking. If the booking is terrible, it is usually terrible in expected ways. Most people aren't going to complain about horrible booking when they saw it coming.
TNA booking on the other hand, finds new ways to disappoint. Or maybe not new ways, just that as mention earlier, they have less of a history, so the patterns aren't as obvious as yet.
Lastly, I think it is that most people who are watching WWE stuff right now are die hard fans, less likely to complain. For a lot of folks, TNA is getting a trial run, and these new viewers are hoping for it to be compelling, both for in-ring action, and in story lines. The in ring action for the impact program, while generally better than most of the WWE stuff, still is very inconsistant. The story lines are usually on the bad side, in my opinion. Again, people are less likely to complain when a program lives down to expectations then when it fails to live up to them.
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