Comparing Crap: Our Standards as Fans for WWE/TNA

[HMARK Center]

I've gotta say, ever since Russo took over at TNA, I've noticed a very odd (to me) trend.

It seems to me that most people here have a very low tolerance for crap in TNA; much lower than they seem to have for the 'E.

Is there a reason for that? Are we just desensitized by Vince-brand wrestlecrap, or do we want TNA to pull itself up into that "viable alternative" label so badly that we won't accept anything negative on the shows?

I mean, here's an example: I'm reading the Gooker nomination thread, and I see quite a few people naming the "Fight For Your Right" tournament as a candidate.

Don't get me wrong: I agree that the whole reverse battle royale and tournament was overly, and unneccessarily, complex. Could've been much more straight forward than it was.

That said...who was squashed in that match? Who's push was hurt? What characters were no longer "legit" after it? How many hours of airtime did it take up? And did the whole thing not have a payoff?

It was over-booked, certainly, but, honestly, I can't look back on it now as anything more than some harmless Russo-style booking; more complicated than it had to be, but nothing that hurt anyone involved.

Yet, it feels whenever we see anything like this in TNA, we get "This'll be the death of the company!" posts, like one segment, most barely five minutes, can ruin an entire promotion.

Well, I'm sorry if this started rambling, but I'm genuinely interested. Again, are we that used to crap from the E that we don't really care much anymore? Or are we that vehement about TNA to present level competition that we won't accept anything that's just right?

[Chris Decker-The Wild Rover]

understandable, i suggested the reverse battle royal, just cause it was way to overbooked for me.

but if it was up to me the KOTM match would be nominated due to overbooking

still a TNA fan though

[HMARK Center]

lifeoftheparty said:

understandable, i suggested the reverse battle royal, just cause it was way to overbooked for me.

but if it was up to me the KOTM match would be nominated due to overbooking

still a TNA fan though

See, that match I'd understand; a World Title main event on one of the company's biggest shows ever, and the payoff concerning Hebner and Larry Z was, um...nonexistant.

[Sajoa Moe]

I buy into the notion that people want TNA to succeed, so they believe that any little negative thing could potentially cause the company permanent damage. TNA is still a growing company with a growing fanbase, so anything that can potentially stunt that growth is immediately a cause for concern.

As far as WWE goes, any crap they churn out doesn't really affect WWE in the long run, since they are a billion-dollar juggernaut that is established as a major corporation. You know that any garbage that comes from WWE will eventually fade away and WWE will keep on truckin', and then come back with something even worse. But in the end, it won't have any drastic effects.

[therob]

I think part of it is that WWE is the main company here, we know what to expect from wwe and they wont change for us so we just accept it. TNA however promotes itself as the company for the fans and says they wont be like the other company so when they do crappy angles we go this is BS and turn it off. Also TNA changes around so much that I think people just lose interest with it.

[Byakugan]

The IWC LOVES to complain.

Simple as that. They will complain about every little thing. Whether it be a tiny detail or a huge dissapointment

[RedSmile]

I can honestly say, I do enjoy TNA, but there are things right now that have that "Russo stench" to them, that I dont like. Namely Sting/Abyss angle. I dont know if thats 100% Russo or not, but Im not a fan of it. Im also not a fan of the AJ heel turn. I think they dropped the ball on it BIG time, and I'll tell you why. Kurt Angle's first feud should have been against AJ. AJ could have had a big time monologue about how HE is Mr TNA...etc..etc. Angle/Joe should still be down the road a ways.

Im also not a fan of what Bobby Roode has done. We all got to watch for months practically, about how he was this "Big free agent" and its been a big waste so far. He really should be paired with Shane Douglas, IMO, and he shouldnt be laying down for "Glorified Comedy Spot" Eric Young. He should have brutalized him.

[Sajoa Moe]

I didn't mind the Fight For The Right tournament all that much. Nearly the entire hour was occupied with those matches, and a company promoting "nonstop action" would benefit from that. While the booking was a bit convoluted, it gave us a couple of good matches and what I thought would have been a push for Lance Hoyt (unfortunately Truth squashed him the next week). Also, the final match gave us Chris Sabin's interference which led to AJ/Sabin at Genesis.

While it was a foregone conclusion that Abyss would win the tournament, it still gave us a wrestling show full of wrestling matches, and that's a positive.

[HMARK Center]

therob said:

I think part of it is that WWE is the main company here, we know what to expect from wwe and they wont change for us so we just accept it. TNA however promotes itself as the company for the fans and says they wont be like the other company so when they do crappy angles we go this is BS and turn it off. Also TNA changes around so much that I think people just lose interest with it.

I can kind of see that, but, even so, beyond something like VKM (which, let's face it, does actually draw ratings...sad reality is that Vince's ass draws the biggest ratings in all of wrestling these days, so we can't escape that), there really aren't many "BS" angles.

In fact, most of the time, they do a pretty good job of the stuff we, as the stereotypical "IWC", would apparently like, like protecting and pushing a lot of the young/new talent, and what have you.

I mean, the MINUTE Angle beat Joe at Genesis, there were a ton of posts on here saying Joe was now a jobber, that they were going to totally depush him, etc., and one month later, it's like we've wiped that bit of hysteria out of the history books. Just seems like another "OH MY GOD, something potentially negative, SOUND THE ALARMS!" kind of deal to me.

[HMARK Center]

redagony said:

I can honestly say, I do enjoy TNA, but there are things right now that have that "Russo stench" to them, that I dont like. Namely Sting/Abyss angle. I dont know if thats 100% Russo or not, but Im not a fan of it. Im also not a fan of the AJ heel turn. I think they dropped the ball on it BIG time, and I'll tell you why. Kurt Angle's first feud should have been against AJ. AJ could have had a big time monologue about how HE is Mr TNA...etc..etc. Angle/Joe should still be down the road a ways.

Im also not a fan of what Bobby Roode has done. We all got to watch for months practically, about how he was this "Big free agent" and its been a big waste so far. He really should be paired with Shane Douglas, IMO, and he shouldnt be laying down for "Glorified Comedy Spot" Eric Young. He should have brutalized him.

Well, you're kind of fantasy booking here on the AJ deal, which is fine, but not really grounds for legit criticism.

I do agree about Roode, but, let's face it, Roode was the victim of a regime change: he was D'Amore's boy, but D'Amore ain't holdin' the book anymore.

[AmericanDragon420]

I've been saying this for a long time. The IWC only gives credit to people the want to give credit to. I mean Sting and Abyss f*** up a finish---it's Vinnies fault. Angle decides to take his match home early and that's Russo's fault too. Angle uses that chair spot that he loves so much and we gotta blame Russo for that too. It's pathetic really. WWE is running the same insulting bullshit on Raw every week and it's "a fairly good show". Smackdown is a slightly average show that only has a few things going for it, none of which are because of creative. It's simply a Benoit or Finlay match, a Booker promo, a Yang or Londrick match, and JBL's commentary carrying it.

Look at the key part of any wrestling promotion, the champions. We got Batista and Lashley getting shoved down our throats and Cena doing the same shit every week. Meanwhile a guy like Abyss just beat two "non-TNA" guys in Christian and Sting. I mean ya'll bitch about TNA overpushing WWE/WCW guys but I haven't seen anyone commenting on AJ Styles, Joe, and Abyss all pulling huge wins against guys that (despite being IN TNA) are considered "non-TNA".

[royboy8]

I see your point on the reverse battle royal but not even the E would show(for free) the biggest match in the history of their company(the five man match last week) with the biggest stars in the company, and give it 5 minutes consisting of complete crap. I think in instances like that, it is overly justified to rip TNA.

[Chuckie Finster]

To me, the exploitation of Eddie, Rey as champ, the whole DX-McMahon-Michaels-Hunter-God-Spirit Squad storyline, D2D, Cyber Sunday, and the 05 Royal Rumble is worse than anything TNA has done this year.

May I remind everyone that because of the FFYR tourney, ABYSS IS THE WORLD CHAMP! The only things in TNA that are even close to Gooker-worthy are the Jackass storyline, VKM, and the Monty Brown promo during the fire...and each are forgivable to an extent.

There are just some people that are anti-TNA and just so dummed down by WWE, that anything that's mediocre and different is immediately shat on while stuff that the E does is just seen as the same old same old.

[RedSmile]

hitmanmark said:

redagony said:

I can honestly say, I do enjoy TNA, but there are things right now that have that "Russo stench" to them, that I dont like. Namely Sting/Abyss angle. I dont know if thats 100% Russo or not, but Im not a fan of it. Im also not a fan of the AJ heel turn. I think they dropped the ball on it BIG time, and I'll tell you why. Kurt Angle's first feud should have been against AJ. AJ could have had a big time monologue about how HE is Mr TNA...etc..etc. Angle/Joe should still be down the road a ways.

Im also not a fan of what Bobby Roode has done. We all got to watch for months practically, about how he was this "Big free agent" and its been a big waste so far. He really should be paired with Shane Douglas, IMO, and he shouldnt be laying down for "Glorified Comedy Spot" Eric Young. He should have brutalized him.

Well, you're kind of fantasy booking here on the AJ deal, which is fine, but not really grounds for legit criticism.

I do agree about Roode, but, let's face it, Roode was the victim of a regime change: he was D'Amore's boy, but D'Amore ain't holdin' the book anymore.

Ah ok sorry, well I guess I will try to answer your post then. If I understand it right. I dont judge TNA any different than WWE, I have a pretty good idea of what most of the wrestlers in each company are capable of, and I have a good idea of what could be considered entertaining by many people. I thought the reverse battle royal was a decent idea, but I am guessing it was hard to follow for the live crowd. Not exactly a ground breaking idea, as they could have done a normal battle royal. I can definitely say that I dont want Russo around, as I fear that he'll try too hard to shock the world and piss off parents, than he will trying to entertain wrestling fans. I also have a bad feeling he'll reaquaint us with Jeff Jarrett in an anti-climatic way.

[Chuckie Finster]

royboy8 said:

I see your point on the reverse battle royal but not even the E would show(for free) the biggest match in the history of their company(the five man match last week) with the biggest stars in the company, and give it 5 minutes consisting of complete crap. I think in instances like that, it is overly justified to rip TNA.

Yeah, cause if we don't sometimes give the fans a bone to chew on, then they won't buy our PPV's and watch next week. We need to see Shark Boy vs. Eric Young every week.

And who was saying it's the biggest match in the companies history? On TV maybe.

[Boku AKA Da Green Guy]

I think, with me, it's more that TNA sells itself as the best in professional wrestling with no flaws. Such that they point out the mistakes of the "guys up North" and feel that they constantly have to remind us that they are better.

Basically I hate that TNA is such an uber shill for itself. If they just concentrated on wrestling and improvement, I would have no problem with them.

As for WWE, for all the crap they've provided... They have some of the greatest moments in professional wrestling history and one of the greatest legacies to fall back on. TNA has the Flying Elvises, the Johnsons, and a midget playing with himself in a trash can. That's why I'm a harder judge on TNA.

[HMARK Center]

I can buy that; I get annoyed at the overshill, as well, since TNA isn't even my favorite promotion. That said, in a market where you have to scream, kick, and throw tantrums just to get attention, since there's only one big game in town, I can't totally fault them...though it still annoys me.

About the five-man match this past week: I think it was pretty clear that that was just for storyline purposes/"we don't have enough airtime, so let's progress what we can in 5-10 minutes".

Hell, I enjoyed it just for Angle tricking Joe; made me want to see Joe kill him at Turning Point.

[royboy8]

tdog231 said:

royboy8 said:

I see your point on the reverse battle royal but not even the E would show(for free) the biggest match in the history of their company(the five man match last week) with the biggest stars in the company, and give it 5 minutes consisting of complete crap. I think in instances like that, it is overly justified to rip TNA.

Yeah, cause if we don't sometimes give the fans a bone to chew on, then they won't buy our PPV's and watch next week. We need to see Shark Boy vs. Eric Young every week.

And who was saying it's the biggest match in the companies history? On TV maybe.

Because it was a match with the 5 biggest stars in the company in it. It doesnt get any bigger then that. Some of the wrestlers (namely Sting) didnt even tag in. Why would you waste an awesome idea like that on 5 minutes? Thats the type of match that only happens very occassionally, it was a HUGE let down.

[Jason Todd Grisham]

fallenangel89 said:

I've been saying this for a long time. The IWC only gives credit to people the want to give credit to. I mean Sting and Abyss hug up a finish---it's Vinnies fault. Angle decides to take his match home early and that's Russo's fault too. Angle uses that chair spot that he loves so much and we gotta blame Russo for that too. It's pathetic really. WWE is running the same insulting bullcrap on Raw every week and it's "a fairly good show". Smackdown is a slightly average show that only has a few things going for it, none of which are because of creative. It's simply a Benoit or Finlay match, a Booker promo, a Yang or Londrick match, and JBL's commentary carrying it.

Look at the key part of any wrestling promotion, the champions. We got Batista and Lashley getting shoved down our throats and Cena doing the same crap every week. Meanwhile a guy like Abyss just beat two "non-TNA" guys in Christian and Sting. I mean ya'll Hootie Hoo! about TNA overpushing WWE/WCW guys but I haven't seen anyone commenting on AJ Styles, Joe, and Abyss all pulling huge wins against guys that (despite being IN TNA) are considered "non-TNA".

Who's the IWC? All I see is a group of people with opinions. Every time I go into a forum here there is discension. There is no mindless agreement that Benoit is the greatest, Russo sucks, and John Cena should be a jobber. Perhaps it's just that these sites are filled with people who enjoy it so much they want to talk about it, and those are the smarks. Smarks have opinions based on in ring and they want to see something different than what's generated. But even then while they complain, half of the complaining is against those who complain. Those who complain have the loudest voice because they complained first.

I guess in short the IWC is the Karl Rove of the internet.

[hutter]

hitmanmark said:

...do we want TNA to pull itself up into that "viable alternative" label so badly that we won't accept anything negative on the shows?

Bingo.