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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 18, 2013 8:43:50 GMT -5
The worst part was that clearly WWE did not foresee Bryan becoming more popular because of it. They essentially lucked out on the fans taking matters into their own hands to salvage what was left. It also sucked for the matches between the opener and the HIAC match. The performers were not anticipating the crowd to be that agitated with WrestleMania from the opening. For midcard fillers in an open arena, that was a shot in the foot they didn't need. But it ultimately turned out to be the best thing to ever happen to Daniel Bryan. I agree. It was a total fluke that DB got so over as a result and I don't think he would be anywhere near as over as he is now if 18 seconds (and more accurately the reaction to it) didn't happen. Actually, this. Saying it was the 'right decision' in hindsight is a big 'yes' (pun intended) because Bryan got more over than ever. But I don't for a second believe that WWE planned an 18-second squash match to get over the guy who lost it. WWE can't even get us to cheer the faces and boo the heels half of the time, no way could they have manipulated some meta-reaction where losing the world title in a tiny squash match to get someone MORE over.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Oct 18, 2013 9:16:47 GMT -5
For the record, I don't think they planned anything. They were like "We don't have enough time on the show" and went the brogue kick solution(which is the best solution).
The aftermath is a happy result.
I really want Sheamus to win a match on every wrestlemania from now on in 18 seconds though. Like they hype Sheamus vs Ultimate Warrior, then Sheamus wins in 18 seconds.
HHH is in Sheamus' corner, crying tears of pride, whispering "Finally, revenge."
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 18, 2013 9:31:28 GMT -5
For the record, I don't think they planned anything. They were like "We don't have enough time on the show" and went the brogue kick solution(which is the best solution). The aftermath is a happy result. I really want Sheamus to win a match on every wrestlemania from now on in 18 seconds though. Like they hype Sheamus vs Ultimate Warrior, then Sheamus wins in 18 seconds. HHH is in Sheamus' corner, crying tears of pride, whispering "Finally, revenge." It will be the new streak. Can any man have a match longer than 18 seconds with Fella at mania.
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Post by pepsitwist on Oct 18, 2013 9:43:22 GMT -5
It killed the crowd and Wrestlemania until Triple H v Undertaker. Stupid booking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 10:11:28 GMT -5
Yes it was worth it. Otherwise we wouldn't have that young go getter Big Show getting all those Yes! chants.
*cries*
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 18, 2013 10:25:14 GMT -5
Yes it was worth it. Otherwise we wouldn't have that young go getter Big Show getting all those Yes! chants. *cries* Right, because Bryan is now getting Conway pops because of that. Except he isn't, he's just as crazy over as ever. Nothing personal, but I just don't buy that Bryan's position in the main event is so fragile that someone else being involved in his feud is going to ruin him. Seriously.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Oct 18, 2013 10:26:04 GMT -5
The year before they were bumped off the card and wrestled for under five minutes. Then we got 18 seconds. Fast forward to this year and the WHC match between Del Rio vs Swagger lasted 13 minutes. How does that make sense? Who the f*** bought WM29 to watch Del Rio and Swagger*? Why did they get more time than both Bryan vs Sheamus matches combined?
Why did Michael Cole vs Lawler last more than 13 minutes? Or any other number of examples where concerts and promos/backstage segments ate away at time that would have been better used elsewhere.
WWE just struggle with time management at WM and it's not acceptable when they charge such a premium for it.
I'm sure things like poor time management, screwy finishes and meaningless stipulations cause a situation where some people are reluctant to buy PPVs, there have been a few well built shows in recent times that have underperformed (Summerslam?) and I'm sure that plays a part.
*Before you say it I'm sure somebody did.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 10:28:48 GMT -5
Yes it was worth it. Otherwise we wouldn't have that young go getter Big Show getting all those Yes! chants. *cries* Right, because Bryan is now getting Conway pops because of that. Except he isn't, he's just as crazy over as ever. Nothing personal, but I just don't buy that Bryan's position in the main event is so fragile that someone else being involved in his feud is going to ruin him. Seriously. A month ago this was Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton & the Corporation. Now after a month of botched finishes and all around randomness, TBS is is the role of man that will fight HHH, and is randomly a part of the triple threat for WWE title. Buy that.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 18, 2013 11:46:10 GMT -5
Yes it was worth it. Otherwise we wouldn't have that young go getter Big Show getting all those Yes! chants. *cries* Right, because Bryan is now getting Conway pops because of that. Except he isn't, he's just as crazy over as ever. Nothing personal, but I just don't buy that Bryan's position in the main event is so fragile that someone else being involved in his feud is going to ruin him. Seriously. if anything, Big Show's absorbing all the stupid parts of the story so D-Bry can get away from it as fast as possible. the sooner he wins the title and actually gets to keep it and go feud with someone else, the better.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 18, 2013 12:23:30 GMT -5
It was absolutely worth it. Yes-amania was born out of the fans being irate over Bryan's treatment. If he'd lost the title in some long, competitive match, they would not have chanted "YES" all night at 'Mania and all the next night on RAW. WWE unintentionally made him much more important to the fanbase.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Oct 18, 2013 12:43:54 GMT -5
To say that if it hadn't happened Bryan wouldn't be as over as he is now is to take a lot of credit away from Bryan. I'm convinced the guy could have made anything work after it. If I remember right the YES chants were going before the 'match' started and I think Sheamus got more than a smattering of boos. I think a competitive match could have had the same effect for Bryan whilst having a better effect on Sheamus' reactions.
The YES/NO chants weren't still going toward the end of last year and all through this year because of 18s, Team Hell No kept that going and Bryan only really took off as a main event talent in Spring this year, more than 12 months after 18s. I know he had a few title matches with Punk but it never really felt like he was on a par with Punk at the time.
I was so pissed off at the time, I'd paid good money for Wrestlemania and that was one of the top two matches I was looking forward to. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy the PPV this year.
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 18, 2013 12:49:30 GMT -5
I agree. It was a total fluke that DB got so over as a result and I don't think he would be anywhere near as over as he is now if 18 seconds (and more accurately the reaction to it) didn't happen. Actually, this. Saying it was the 'right decision' in hindsight is a big 'yes' (pun intended) because Bryan got more over than ever. But I don't for a second believe that WWE planned an 18-second squash match to get over the guy who lost it. WWE can't even get us to cheer the faces and boo the heels half of the time, no way could they have manipulated some meta-reaction where losing the world title in a tiny squash match to get someone MORE over. Those are the best times to get over, when the company doesn't plan or expect it. I doubt they had a plan like that when Austin gave his "Austin 3:16" speech or when "Rocky Sucks" became a thing. You've gotta give some hope to a company that, in 2012 with all the influence of the "IWC", the fans can still have a say in who they want to see.
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Post by BRAINFADE on Oct 18, 2013 13:09:46 GMT -5
Being well over a year removed from the fact, I'd say that yes, it was worth it. Bryan was starting to get over before 18s, but I believe the reaction to the loss is a big reason as to why he is so over today.
When I was watching the show, however, I was PISSED. Not just because I am a big fan of Bryan, but I had shelled out money and stayed up late to see the show, and D-Bry vs. Sheamus was a big selling point to me. The live crowd also pretty much turned on the entire show before HHH and Taker came out and saved it.
Like a lot of people have said before me, I think the true casualty is Sheamus. The crowd at Raw the next night wanted to lynch him, and in my opinion he has never recovered from that night (although the never-ending feud with The Human Beacon of Apathy, Alberto Del Rio, certainly didn't help his cause),
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 13:16:15 GMT -5
I was gutted the match I wanted to see the most on the whole card didn't happen.
But I don't understand all the butthurt and claims of burial.
a Heel got their comeuppance in a flukey way. It's not as if it was a fair fight and Sheamus squashed him in 18 seconds, Bryan was caught off guard
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Post by The Baltimore Staircase on Oct 18, 2013 13:26:55 GMT -5
It was worth it I guess for the fan reaction it generated, although people were on the "YES" thing at Mania itself so I would argue that the post-mania Raw crowd were always going to rain down a sea of yes upon the show.
What we shouldn't do is kid ourselves into thinking that the WWE ever saw this coming. There was no "this'll put Bryan over huge!" thinking.
Another example of the real stars being made and chosen by the people. The good ones always rise to the top. The fans just made it happen quicker.
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Oct 18, 2013 14:35:23 GMT -5
Also, I'm confused by people saying Sheamus suffered. Dude was still getting huge pops before his injury.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 18, 2013 14:55:18 GMT -5
Yes it was worth it. Otherwise we wouldn't have that young go getter Big Show getting all those Yes! chants. *cries* Right, because Bryan is now getting Conway pops because of that. Except he isn't, he's just as crazy over as ever. Nothing personal, but I just don't buy that Bryan's position in the main event is so fragile that someone else being involved in his feud is going to ruin him. Seriously. Someone else in general? No. An already established name who is being booked a lot stronger than Bryan and booked to have all the Big Damn Heroes moments that Bryan or some other young talent should have? Maybe it won't ruin him, but that's in spite of WWE booking. Bryan may have risen above 18 Seconds, but WWE seems to be working overtime to undermine him at every opportunity.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Oct 18, 2013 15:23:59 GMT -5
Right, because Bryan is now getting Conway pops because of that. Except he isn't, he's just as crazy over as ever. Nothing personal, but I just don't buy that Bryan's position in the main event is so fragile that someone else being involved in his feud is going to ruin him. Seriously. Someone else in general? No. An already established name who is being booked a lot stronger than Bryan and booked to have all the Big Damn Heroes moments that Bryan or some other young talent should have? Maybe it won't ruin him, but that's in spite of WWE booking. Bryan may have risen above 18 Seconds, but WWE seems to be working overtime to undermine him at every opportunity. No, its ALSO because of his booking. The "Weak Link" angle he had earlier this year is what REALLY got him over with the mainstream crowds.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Oct 18, 2013 17:27:56 GMT -5
Also, I'm confused by people saying Sheamus suffered. Dude was still getting huge pops before his injury. Plus, I'm pretty sure that 18 seconds gave birth to self-aware Dick Sheamus, which is the greatest gimmick he has ever had.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Oct 18, 2013 17:38:48 GMT -5
Also, I'm confused by people saying Sheamus suffered. Dude was still getting huge pops before his injury. He gets booed by the same crowds that booed Cena, which would've happened to him anyway (and was already starting months before 'Mania, when Intelligent, Discerning Wrestling Fans bitched and whined about how he must have won the Rumble over Jericho 'cause of Triple H's backstage politicing), what with being a large, musclebound babyface who cracks jokes and wins a lot.
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