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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 10:03:52 GMT -5
Said it before and I'll say it again. The most heel thing Cena can do is not turn heel because stuff like this fuels the hate, by this point they WANT the "we hate Cena" crowd to keep booing him because well, it seems like that's the reason they're buying tickets in the first place. I always thought that explanation was weird. I mean, it works for a guy like Punk but did that type of stuff work for Miz? Did it work for Ziggler? Did it work for Alberto Del Rio? Did it work for Sheamus? I dunno if I really buy it. I know WWE might as well try to spin it into something because they aren't changing him and they look kinda stupid propping this guy up for you to cheer him when half the crowd refuses to do so.
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Post by Snaptastic on Oct 22, 2013 10:04:48 GMT -5
Said it before and I'll say it again. The most heel thing Cena can do is not turn heel because stuff like this fuels the hate, by this point they WANT the "we hate Cena" crowd to keep booing him because well, it seems like that's the reason they're buying tickets in the first place. Pretty much this. I'm of the opinion that as this point, they're beyond the point of no return with Cena.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 22, 2013 10:30:11 GMT -5
It was a political ad. If you're part of the Cenation, it galvanized the faithful and inspired them that the Champ is returning. Those who are anti-Cena will take from it even more reasons why they hate him.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Oct 22, 2013 10:30:20 GMT -5
the sad thing is, I think that WWE truly believes people's problem with Cena is just resentment. part of the reason they never fixed him is that they never wanted to admit that their booking was the problem. it's a classic case of psychological deflection, but on a company-wide basis.
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Oct 22, 2013 10:51:00 GMT -5
Remember right after "The Montreal Screwjob", Vince came out and said The E wasn't going to "insult your intelligence on who root for"? I miss those days.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:14:51 GMT -5
Didn't Lawler say on commentary once that people boo Cena 'cause they can't lift weights like he can? That's hilarious.
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Post by sportatorium on Oct 22, 2013 11:21:16 GMT -5
It's why he's hated. He's damn damn damn damn stale. Even Hogan got stale after an eternity. Cena desperately needs a change. And by John Cena's logic, Hogan turning into Hollywood Hogan wasn't one of the biggest moments in wrestling history...it was the Hulkster not being true to himself, which is more important than what the fans actually might want to see. Never Give Up. Cena's logic to a degree, but WWE in 2013 more so. WCW could afford to turn Hogan heel in large part because he was getting booed, especially when feuding with Ric Flair. If they had tried to turn Sting heel on him at that point it never would have worked either. They looked at the situation & all knew it could work just fine. In WWE it seems turning Cena heel, or even tweaking the superman character is completely off the table, not even a consideration. Sad, because the one time in recent memory when he wasn't a superhero & had to resort to desperation was against Brock & he got the crowd completely behind him. In the 80's when the jobber shows were pre-taped, Hogan made very few appearances. If he was getting stale & fans were cheering the heels, it wasn't in plain sight on live TV every week. The nature of the show now is very different. They also can look at turning Austin & Rock heel. Austin as the delusional guitar playing, Vince hugging nutjob was hard to hate. Hollywood Rock was a heel turn, but really just breathed life into a style character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:23:30 GMT -5
Said it before and I'll say it again. The most heel thing Cena can do is not turn heel because stuff like this fuels the hate, by this point they WANT the "we hate Cena" crowd to keep booing him because well, it seems like that's the reason they're buying tickets in the first place. I always thought that explanation was weird. I mean, it works for a guy like Punk but did that type of stuff work for Miz? Did it work for Ziggler? Did it work for Alberto Del Rio? Did it work for Sheamus? I dunno if I really buy it. I know WWE might as well try to spin it into something because they aren't changing him and they look kinda stupid propping this guy up for you to cheer him when half the crowd refuses to do so. I think it all comes down to the fact that WWE stands to make way more money by not changing anything and just mentioning how "controversial" he is every once in a while than they do by turning him heel. Hogan turned heel because WCW stood to make more money by playing to the people that wanted to see the WCW guys beat up the "WWF" guys. WCW could afford to turn Hogan heel in large part because he was getting booed, especially when feuding with Ric Flair. If they had tried to turn Sting heel on him at that point it never would have worked either. This is a huge point that many people overlook. Hogan was already a heel in WCW by virtue of being an "outside invader." All they did was acknowledge that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:27:55 GMT -5
I always thought that explanation was weird. I mean, it works for a guy like Punk but did that type of stuff work for Miz? Did it work for Ziggler? Did it work for Alberto Del Rio? Did it work for Sheamus? I dunno if I really buy it. I know WWE might as well try to spin it into something because they aren't changing him and they look kinda stupid propping this guy up for you to cheer him when half the crowd refuses to do so. I think it all comes down to the fact that WWE stands to make way more money by not changing anything and just mentioning how "controversial" he is every once in a while than they do by turning him heel. WWE obviously thinks they do, but I don't buy it. Especially since they're scared to death to do anything to Cena's character and booking. They don't even book him to have logical reactions to a lot of things.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Oct 22, 2013 11:29:36 GMT -5
And by John Cena's logic, Hogan turning into Hollywood Hogan wasn't one of the biggest moments in wrestling history...it was the Hulkster not being true to himself, which is more important than what the fans actually might want to see. Never Give Up. Cena's logic to a degree, but WWE in 2013 more so. WCW could afford to turn Hogan heel in large part because he was getting booed, especially when feuding with Ric Flair. If they had tried to turn Sting heel on him at that point it never would have worked either. They looked at the situation & all knew it could work just fine. In WWE it seems turning Cena heel, or even tweaking the superman character is completely off the table, not even a consideration. Sad, because the one time in recent memory when he wasn't a superhero & had to resort to desperation was against Brock & he got the crowd completely behind him. In the 80's when the jobber shows were pre-taped, Hogan made very few appearances. If he was getting stale & fans were cheering the heels, it wasn't in plain sight on live TV every week. The nature of the show now is very different. They also can look at turning Austin & Rock heel. Austin as the delusional guitar playing, Vince hugging nutjob was hard to hate. Hollywood Rock was a heel turn, but really just breathed life into a style character. and the Nexus angle. Cena actually got huge pops from the crowd (including an organic never give up chant)
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Oct 22, 2013 11:40:36 GMT -5
The crowd reacts to Cena in such a manner because his act got stale and predictable. This is why there is the ever present call for Cena to turn heel; it would be something new and different. The crowds have been on fire in Cena's absence because we are seeing new faces in the main event and new stories that don't revolve around Cena "overcoming the odds." Nothing more or less than this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 11:56:44 GMT -5
It was a political ad. If you're part of the Cenation, it galvanized the faithful and inspired them that the Champ is returning. Those who are anti-Cena will take from it even more reasons why they hate him. Thanks for being objective. Too often the negative interpretation gets passed off as THE interpretation.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Oct 22, 2013 12:39:55 GMT -5
If this PPV doesn't end with Cena hugging Triple H while holding both titles I'll be sad. Let's stop playing around with Orton. The true face of WWE is back so let the king have his throne.
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Post by corndog on Oct 22, 2013 12:46:41 GMT -5
If this PPV doesn't end with Cena hugging Triple H while holding both titles I'll be sad. Let's stop playing around with Orton. The true face of WWE is back so let the king have his throne. This really would be a perfect opportunity to turn Cena heel. Make him the corporate champion. Have Bryan win the WWE title, but HHH makes his life a living hell and Cena can be the World Heavyweight Champion and face of the WWE. I mean come on, the reaction from the Memphis fans just for a mention of Cena's name says it all. Also if they pair him with Superheel HHH, I don't see him getting a face reaction. Especially if he is against Daniel Bryan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 12:50:21 GMT -5
I want Total Divas John Cena now, clam, rational, thoughtful, knowledgable about history. This Utlimate Gringo we've got now is ridiculous.
He should come out, calmly quote Patton and kick butt. End of.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 22, 2013 13:41:14 GMT -5
It was a political ad. If you're part of the Cenation, it galvanized the faithful and inspired them that the Champ is returning. Those who are anti-Cena will take from it even more reasons why they hate him. There should be a vested interest in making Cena appeal to the other half. That's how you "win" the election. To me, and this is not going to be popular, but if I had a kid, who was hated by a lot of kids at school, I'd try and figure out why that was, not just bemoan that side as being wrong. I'd try to ascertain if my child was doing anything to so spur on that disdain --and if he was, I'd tell him to change that aspect of his personality; or to make a concentrated effort to. Sometimes there just is blind hate. But a lot of times someone is just plain annoying and should stop being so.
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Post by sportatorium on Oct 22, 2013 13:43:03 GMT -5
If this PPV doesn't end with Cena hugging Triple H while holding both titles I'll be sad. Let's stop playing around with Orton. The true face of WWE is back so let the king have his throne. This really would be a perfect opportunity to turn Cena heel. Make him the corporate champion. Have Bryan win the WWE title, but HHH makes his life a living hell and Cena can be the World Heavyweight Champion and face of the WWE. I mean come on, the reaction from the Memphis fans just for a mention of Cena's name says it all. Also if they pair him with Superheel HHH, I don't see him getting a face reaction. Especially if he is against Daniel Bryan. That would help explain keeping the title held up all this time & the neutered nature of Randy Orton as the top heel. Maybe Cena's early comeback has pushed things along a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 13:43:22 GMT -5
Stating that completely negates the fact that there are glaring issues with his booking and presentation. It's insulting to those who have legitimate criticisms, and paints them as "haters" for hate sake, rather than people who just can't stand white-washed company propaganda and phony personas. I honestly think that's how the WWE perceives it's fanbase, they think that the booking is always great and it's the fans that are wrong.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 22, 2013 13:57:13 GMT -5
It was a political ad. If you're part of the Cenation, it galvanized the faithful and inspired them that the Champ is returning. Those who are anti-Cena will take from it even more reasons why they hate him. There should be a vested interest in making Cena appeal to the other half. That's how you "win" the election. To me, and this is not going to be popular, but if I had a kid, who was hated by a lot of kids at school, I'd try and figure out why that was, not just bemoan that side as being wrong. I'd try to ascertain if my child was doing anything to so spur on that disdain --and if he was, I'd tell him to change that aspect of his personality; or to make a concentrated effort to. Sometimes there just is blind hate. But a lot of times someone is just plain annoying and should stop being so. Going by how elections goes for both local and national, playing to your base and getting them out to vote is what wins elections. Folks who are on the fence more than likely just stay home or in this case, not watch WWE. Changing Cena won't win over the people who already hate him. Eliminating the dorkiness, Boy Scout honor code, and Superman comebacks; they will find something new to rail on him about.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 13:59:35 GMT -5
There should be a vested interest in making Cena appeal to the other half. That's how you "win" the election. To me, and this is not going to be popular, but if I had a kid, who was hated by a lot of kids at school, I'd try and figure out why that was, not just bemoan that side as being wrong. I'd try to ascertain if my child was doing anything to so spur on that disdain --and if he was, I'd tell him to change that aspect of his personality; or to make a concentrated effort to. Sometimes there just is blind hate. But a lot of times someone is just plain annoying and should stop being so. Going by how elections goes for both local and national, playing to your base and getting them out to vote is what wins elections. Folks who are on the fence more than likely just stay home or in this case, not watch WWE. Changing Cena won't win over the people who already hate him. Eliminating the dorkiness, Boy Scout honor code, and Superman comebacks; they will find something new to rail on him about. The problem isn't his dorkiness, Boy Scout, Supermaniness. People don't have a problem rooting for Cena when he's distanced from all his bad booking, like when he was fighting Nexus or when Brock Lesnar was about to skin him alive.
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