Losing to regular (non finisher) moves?

[mcstoklasa]

I watched the Rock/HHH Iron Man match the other day. Great match. One thing I enjoyed a lot is how, after about 30 minutes of action (and both being pinned by their opponents respective finishers) that both men were then pinned with 'regular' moves. Rock was pinned from a piledriver and HHH from a DDT. I know back in the day that these two were considered match finishing moves, but by the attitude era you would ALWAYS kick out of them.

There could be a brutal match where someone is DDT'd onto a steel chair, but of course they kick out, but then later a 'faker' looked move would be used on them like the Stunner and they would be down for the three count, because it is a finisher.

I'm sure the only reason HHH and Rock were pinned by 'regular' moves in this match was to sell their tiredness and pain from the long match (and also so not every pin is just from a finisher), but it sure added to the match.

Can anyone think of any other matches since the attitude era where guys (not jobbers) have been pinned from regular (non finisher) moves? Ie, a (fictional) example could be: Show vs HHH vs Orton vs Cena... Cena AA's Orton. When Orton eventually gets to his feet, Show hits the KO punch on him, Orton staggers into the turnbuckle but doesn't fall and HHH catches him with a running high knee and pins him.

Wasn't Kane pinned by a dropkick in an elimination chamber?

[CM Parish]

Ziggler randomly pinned someone with his fameasser for the first time ever recently.

[mcstoklasa]

Oct 24, 2013 5:10:06 GMT -5 CM Parish said:

Ziggler randomly pinned someone with his fameasser for the first time ever recently.

On another note, Zigglers other finisher thing, that jumping back slam thing, really sucks.

[CM Parish]

Oct 24, 2013 5:11:53 GMT -5 mcstoklasa said:

Oct 24, 2013 5:10:06 GMT -5 CM Parish said:

Ziggler randomly pinned someone with his fameasser for the first time ever recently.

On another note, Zigglers other finisher thing, that jumping back slam thing, really sucks.

His regular finish, the zig-zag?

[mcstoklasa]

Oct 24, 2013 5:13:39 GMT -5 CM Parish said:

Oct 24, 2013 5:11:53 GMT -5 mcstoklasa said:

On another note, Zigglers other finisher thing, that jumping back slam thing, really sucks.

His regular finish, the zig-zag?

That's the one, not a fan. I like Ziggler though.

[bootytea]

I prefer not knowing when somebody is going to be defeated.

It reminds me of when Vladimir Kozlov beat the Undertaker with a scoop slam out of nowhere.

WWE matches especially are very easy to telegraph because its the same thing. Once you consider certain factors such as whether it is a squash, a rematch or a match that should be on pay per view, you have a good idea how the match is going to end.

The thing that irks me is when a finisher turns into a setup move, especially when that setup move looks more devastating..

[CM Parish]

Oct 24, 2013 5:17:03 GMT -5 bootytea said:

The thing that irks me is when a finisher turns into a setup move, especially when that setup move looks more devastating..

This is fine in a squash match.

It's not fine when Goldberg spears the f*** out of Shawn Michaels and Y2J in an elimination chamber match and then proceeds to try to put the "rubber stamp" on it by giving them a Jackhammer when there's other guys in the match which could interrupt or hit you from behind.

[mcstoklasa]

Oct 24, 2013 5:21:00 GMT -5 CM Parish said:

Oct 24, 2013 5:17:03 GMT -5 bootytea said:

The thing that irks me is when a finisher turns into a setup move, especially when that setup move looks more devastating..

This is fine in a squash match.

It's not fine when Goldberg spears the f*** out of Shawn Michaels and Y2J in an elimination chamber match and then proceeds to try to put the "rubber stamp" on it by giving them a Jackhammer when there's other guys in the match which could interrupt or hit you from behind.

True but with Goldberg, everyone (in kayfabe) was done for in that match anyway as soon as he left the pod. It doesn't matter if the guys try to interrupt because he's Goldberg. A spear and a jackhammer to everyone to destroy them suited it well. Although a pin after a spear should presumably still have been enough.

[mcstoklasa]

Oct 24, 2013 5:17:03 GMT -5 bootytea said:

WWE matches especially are very easy to telegraph because its the same thing. Once you consider certain factors such as whether it is a squash, a rematch or a match that should be on pay per view, you have a good idea how the match is going to end.

Agreed. For example if in a championship match, Orton kicks out of Punk's finisher, you just know in the next five minutes that Punk will then kick out of Orton's.

[Starshine]

Triple H beating Jeff Hardy with a sleeper hold around the early 2000's.

Also there were quite a few of these unintentionally happening during that period where they experimented with not telling the refs the finish to matches.

Oct 24, 2013 5:17:03 GMT -5 bootytea said:

I prefer not knowing when somebody is going to be defeated.

It reminds me of when Vladimir Kozlov beat the Undertaker with a scoop slam out of nowhere.

WWE matches especially are very easy to telegraph because its the same thing. Once you consider certain factors such as whether it is a squash, a rematch or a match that should be on pay per view, you have a good idea how the match is going to end.

The thing that irks me is when a finisher turns into a setup move, especially when that setup move looks more devastating..

One of the biggest tells to me is keeping track of what signature moves each guy has done. You should expect that most guys at least top tier guys) will hit all of their "pop" moves in a match for the audience. For example I didn't buy the SCM/Pedigree combo on Undertaker for a second at last years Mania because Taker had only hit about half of his big moves at that point.

[Dean-o]

Glad i'm not the only one. You can easily tell when a big match is about to end, because it's only after everybody hits all their signature moves/crowd pop spots first. With that said, it does take a lot of the drama out of the match when you run a checklist in your head to know when all the "filler" has taken place.

I mean, at the end of the day, you're not killing somebody, you're just pinning their shoulders down to the mat for 3 seconds. It would be nice if non-finisher endings were used more often aside from the stupid distraction from entrance music bit they have been using a lot lately.

[CMWaters]

I remember being shocked at WrestleMania 23 when Benoit beat MVP with the diving headbutt.

[Kayfabe FAN don't want none]

I think HHH pinned Benoit with a spinebuster in their Ironman match.

[Pushed to the Moon]

I like this too. I know you were asking about post attitude era ones but I remember when Shawn Michaels won a couple of matches in 96 with a moonsault and I thought it was great when I was a kid!

[mcstoklasa]

It's like when I (still) play WWF No Mercy against my friends. I can destroy someone with Goldberg (Caw), using the spear and the Jackhammer special easy. All moves are ranked in power; finishers are rated S, and then moves are rated A, B, C, D, E, F, G. A being most damage, G being least.

I could beat someone with the Jackhammer but it's much more satisfying at the end of the match to catch a tired opponent who's running at me with a powerslam counter out of nowhere (around a C) and get the pin from that.

[Chiral]

Oct 24, 2013 8:12:44 GMT -5 CMWaters said:

I remember being shocked at WrestleMania 23 when Benoit beat MVP with the diving headbutt.

I was thinking of this too! It reminded me of Jericho beating Regal at WMX7 with a Lionsault. I actually really like when stuff like this happens, because it's so surprising.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

The one that sprung to mind for me was Daniel Bryan beating a few people, the one example that's clearest to me is Swagger on the first Old School Raw, with a headkick.

[Amazing Kitsune]

At Summerslam Daniel Bryan beat Cena with a running knee, if memory serves. Unless I've missed something, which is quite possible, the YES Lock is his main finish.

Is the running knee a secondary/new main finisher or something? I've not been able to watch as much as I would like recently.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Oct 24, 2013 11:54:12 GMT -5 Amazing Kitsune said:

At Summerslam Daniel Bryan beat Cena with a running knee, if memory serves. Unless I've missed something, which is quite possible, the YES Lock is his main finish.

Is the running knee a secondary/new main finisher or something? I've not been able to watch as much as I would like recently.

It's his main finisher now but at the time, that finish shocked pretty much everyone.

[CH Punk]

Cody Rhodes randomly beat Santino Marella with the Alabama Slam on an episode of Raw in 2011 (I think it was the post-Survivor Series episode).