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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Oct 26, 2013 15:26:21 GMT -5
If TNA takes the obvious "Summer of Punk" styled angle that they're running with AJ Styles and does everything that we could have asked the WWE to do with it (Styles going to Japan, Mexico and other indies with the belt, defending the belt on other shows and truly coming off as the "real" world champion etc.) will we consider it a good angle? Or is the fact that it is a take on a story that the WWE had a hand in cursed it to be horrible from the get go? The reason I ask is because I find it hard to judge TNA on taking angles from other promotions and running with them, especially if they have the intent to do the angle properly (whether they succeed on that or not is irrelevant and subjective). Just because something has been done before surely shouldn't mean that if there is more of a story to be told that no one should try and take that ball and run with it right? I'd really like to hear you guys opinions on this one, so FAN, have at it.  |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 26, 2013 15:31:47 GMT -5
My thing is, nothing in wrestling is 100% original. Angles/storylines are going to be recycled. But, if you're gonna recycle an angle, at least use Jim Cornette's 7 year rule.
As for this angle, if TNA really does go that extra mile and has AJ wrestle for other companies, that's cool but at the end of the day, everybody is gonna be calling it a rip off of the Punk/MITB saga. That's what happens when you do a storyline so similar to another one that is still ingrained in people's memories.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 15:44:11 GMT -5
I think the time to do this angle was two years ago with CM Punk. It's not even about taking an idea from a different promotion. I think if the WWE tried it again with Daniel Bryan this year it would fall equally as flat. It's simply too soon for anyone to do this story again, even if they go the extra step and have the title defended somewhere else.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Oct 26, 2013 15:51:00 GMT -5
I'm interested to see where they go from here. If AJ ends up all over with the belt, that'd be cool.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 16:12:26 GMT -5
A year ago on this forum I said TNA should "copy" the CM Punk-2011 angle and take it to places WWE never did, because the angle could potentially be so much better if done properly. Back then I was imagining Austin Aries in the role instead of AJ Styles, but regardless, I had no idea they would actually end up doing it. So I have no more problem with TNA "copying" the angle, as long as they do more with it than the WWE did (which wouldn't take much). Their budget issues might prevent them from going all out with it, but there are so many things they can with it that would look fresh and original.
As far as taking other companies storylines, the WWF during the Attitude Era were masters of it, they just never got called on it. Bischoff was the evil corrupt promoter a year before the Screwjob. The nWo was running wild a year before the WWF suddenly started have a fixation with gang wars. The nWo did a parody of the Horseman a year before DX did a vastly inferior one of the Nation. The WWF mysteriously created a Lightweight division when WCW had already established the Cruiserweight division as an exciting alternative during their programming. I could go on. It happens, and I brought this up primarily to show that the WWF/E is just as guilty of it as any other fed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 16:13:35 GMT -5
It looks bad to do such a blatant rip off of an angle that isn't that far removed, and I don't think that AJ captures the imagination like Punk did to make it work. A big part of it is context, if Punk had shown up/defended the title in indies or Japan it would have been mindblowing because the E just doesn't do things like that, if it happens with the TNA title it's not as big of a deal because like it or not TNA is regarded as a large indy at this point.
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Post by percymania on Oct 26, 2013 16:37:18 GMT -5
Styles is the wrong guy for this angle. Punk was seen as the anti-WWE guy, so it worked for him. Styles is the quintessential TNA guy, so it's hard to buy him as being someone to take their belt and run. They needed more of an outsider for this role. I think Jeff Hardy would have worked doing this bit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 16:38:13 GMT -5
The problem is, for me, that it's destined to come across as a cheap imitation because this angle doesn't have all the history that the Punk angle did. The Punk angle called on things like Vince being out of touch with wrestling fans, the Triple H relationship with the family, The Rock coming in and taking away the wrestlemania main event a year in advance, the creative miasma the company had going...It was about so much more than just "Major face takes belt and leaves." Punk wasn't rebelling just by taking the belt, he was rebelling against a decade long status quo. If TNA wants to do this than they need to target the specific things fans feel about THAT promotion.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 26, 2013 16:40:45 GMT -5
 It's easier to book someone else's angles in hindsight than come up with a new twist to an old standby. Let's face it, TNA has a problem of using other wrestling promotions storylines and just changing the names of the characters instead of rewriting the script. Aces and Eight was one of the long attempts by TNA to recreate the NWO. What made the Summer of Punk 2 worked because the lead character and supporting were interesting and involved in a situation rare in WWE. Punk made only one indy appearance in AIW and WWE pulled that footage of him putting over Gregory Iron. AJ Styles does not have the aura and acting chops to pull off this part of the storyline. Dixie Carter can't act for shit and should be nowhere out front as she is. Styles defends the belt in some small indy and then what? TNA going to air the footage or acknowledge it therefore killing he suppose to be rebelling and hated by Dixie. This is same exact copy but diluted and not as interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 16:49:15 GMT -5
The problem is, for me, that it's destined to come across as a cheap imitation because this angle doesn't have all the history that the Punk angle did. The Punk angle called on things like Vince being out of touch with wrestling fans, the Triple H relationship with the family, The Rock coming in and taking away the wrestlemania main event a year in advance, the creative miasma the company had going...It was about so much more than just "Major face takes belt and leaves." Punk wasn't rebelling just by taking the belt, he was rebelling against a decade long status quo. If TNA wants to do this than they need to target the specific things fans feel about THAT promotion. AJ has done that, he talked about how Dixie is an idiot, how they let go of good workers to bring in big names who take a vacation on TNA's dime, etc. The problem is that AJ sucks something fierce on the mic and no one is buying the angle at all. |
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Oct 26, 2013 16:56:35 GMT -5
The problem is, for me, that it's destined to come across as a cheap imitation because this angle doesn't have all the history that the Punk angle did. The Punk angle called on things like Vince being out of touch with wrestling fans, the Triple H relationship with the family, The Rock coming in and taking away the wrestlemania main event a year in advance, the creative miasma the company had going...It was about so much more than just "Major face takes belt and leaves." Punk wasn't rebelling just by taking the belt, he was rebelling against a decade long status quo. If TNA wants to do this than they need to target the specific things fans feel about THAT promotion. I don't know if you have been watching or not but the AJ walk out may have more history to it at a personal level between the characters involved than the CM Punk angle. Styles has been "the future of TNA" and had the company put on his back time and again and yet he's never been allowed to be THE guy, even when he built the damn product with his own blood sweat and tears he was never truly allowed to run with the ball that he was given. Not only that but other competitors in TNA have experienced the same thing, they've broke their back for the promotion and either never been fully allowed to run with the ball or worse, they've been kicked to the curb for the next flavor of the month. That same thing was going to happen to AJ Styles, after everything he's been through for the company, for Dixie Carter and after fighting and clawing his way back to the top of TNA and winning the Bound For Glory series he was about to be kicked to the curb in exchange for someone else by Dixie Carter just like she had done to others before him. That is until he won the TNA Championship and took the power back, yet once again instead of accepting AJ as the here and now and the icon that he is she continued to refer to him as the future of TNA. After offering him money, a car and a big private locker room, not to mention a lucrative contract, all the things she would offer the next flavor of the month, AJ realized that she still didn't get it and that there was only way to make her pay is leave her to lie in the bed she's made. Doing so by taking the championship and his work ethic elsewhere. |
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Oct 26, 2013 17:01:54 GMT -5
It's easier to book someone else's angles in hindsight than come up with a new twist to an old standby. Let's face it, TNA has a problem of using other wrestling promotions storylines and just changing the names of the characters instead of rewriting the script. Aces and Eight was one of the long attempts by TNA to recreate the NWO. What made the Summer of Punk 2 worked because the lead character and supporting were interesting and involved in a situation rare in WWE. Punk made only one indy appearance in AIW and WWE pulled that footage of him putting over Gregory Iron. AJ Styles does not have the aura and acting chops to pull off this part of the storyline. Dixie Carter can't act for shit and should be nowhere out front as she is. Styles defends the belt in some small indy and then what? TNA going to air the footage or acknowledge it therefore killing he suppose to be rebelling and hated by Dixie. This is same exact copy but diluted and not as interesting. I completely disagree with you. You can't tell me that AJ Styles showing up in ROH and the backlash from the fans with him declaring himself the real world champion would be "less interesting" than anything that happened in that CM Punk storyline, which if I remember correctly was pissed up the wall when he came back 8 days later before entering a feud with Kevin f'n Nash. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 26, 2013 17:06:48 GMT -5
It's easier to book someone else's angles in hindsight than come up with a new twist to an old standby. Let's face it, TNA has a problem of using other wrestling promotions storylines and just changing the names of the characters instead of rewriting the script. Aces and Eight was one of the long attempts by TNA to recreate the NWO. What made the Summer of Punk 2 worked because the lead character and supporting were interesting and involved in a situation rare in WWE. Punk made only one indy appearance in AIW and WWE pulled that footage of him putting over Gregory Iron. AJ Styles does not have the aura and acting chops to pull off this part of the storyline. Dixie Carter can't act for shit and should be nowhere out front as she is. Styles defends the belt in some small indy and then what? TNA going to air the footage or acknowledge it therefore killing he suppose to be rebelling and hated by Dixie. This is same exact copy but diluted and not as interesting. I completely disagree with you. You can't tell me that AJ Styles showing up in ROH and the backlash from the fans with him declaring himself the real world champion would be "less interesting" than anything that happened in that CM Punk storyline, which if I remember correctly was pissed up the wall when he came back 8 days later before entering a feud with Kevin f'n Nash. AJ Styles is not showing up in Ring Of Honor. He's not showing up in PWG. Nor CZW, AIW, New Japan, or any promotion like that. That's the part of fantasy booking that is fantasy. Unless AJ really isn't under contract (he's is), this is not going to happen. It's the same reason why I said to people who thought Punk was going to show up in ROH or NJPW it was not going happen. |
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Post by TK The Friendly Robot on Oct 26, 2013 17:11:52 GMT -5
I completely disagree with you. You can't tell me that AJ Styles showing up in ROH and the backlash from the fans with him declaring himself the real world champion would be "less interesting" than anything that happened in that CM Punk storyline, which if I remember correctly was pissed up the wall when he came back 8 days later before entering a feud with Kevin f'n Nash. AJ Styles is not showing up in Ring Of Honor. He's not showing up in PWG. Nor CZW, AIW, New Japan, or any promotion like that. That's the part of fantasy booking that is fantasy. Unless AJ really isn't under contract (he's is), this is not going to happen. It's the same reason why I said to people who thought Punk was going to show up in ROH or NJPW it was not going happen. I don't know, AJ seems to think he's going to be defending the title around the world. twitter.com/AJStylesOrg/status/394202110918922240 |
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Post by Reflecto on Oct 26, 2013 17:15:59 GMT -5
AJ Styles is not showing up in Ring Of Honor. He's not showing up in PWG. Nor CZW, AIW, New Japan, or any promotion like that. That's the part of fantasy booking that is fantasy. Unless AJ really isn't under contract (he's is), this is not going to happen. It's the same reason why I said to people who thought Punk was going to show up in ROH or NJPW it was not going happen. The big problem though- AJ Styles absolutely COULD show up in Ring of Honor, PWG, CZW, AIW, New Japan, etc. The only problem: It wouldn't really MATTER if he did. TNA is looser with their contracts than WWE is and always was- it is possible and reasonable to see TNA wrestlers take independent bookings all the time, regardless of their contract situation. As long as there's no conflicting booking with a TNA show and the company's willing to pay the exorbitant prices/demands TNA makes for one of their wrestlers, you could get AJ Styles or any other TNA wrestler on a show. Any fan who you'd be working with a angle like "AJ Styles showing up at Promotion X's event" would already KNOW this, so it it would matter less than when CM Punk showed up at an indy show. The issue isn't running that part of the angle- it's reasonable for a minor promotion to book AJ Styles, any more than that same promotion could have booked him six months ago without many major problems. The issue is- because of how reasonable it is for a minor promotion to book AJ Styles, there's only ONE move that would make fans stand up and take notice- "AJ Styles shows up in the crowd or defends the TNA World Title at a WWE event"- and we know both sides of the coin don't have the balls to do that. |
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 26, 2013 17:18:23 GMT -5
AJ Styles is not showing up in Ring Of Honor. He's not showing up in PWG. Nor CZW, AIW, New Japan, or any promotion like that. That's the part of fantasy booking that is fantasy. Unless AJ really isn't under contract (he's is), this is not going to happen. It's the same reason why I said to people who thought Punk was going to show up in ROH or NJPW it was not going happen. I don't know, AJ seems to think he's going to be defending the title around the world. twitter.com/AJStylesOrg/status/394202110918922240Considering Jeff Jarrett is suppose to bring 2 TNA guys with him to Wrestle-1, I wouldn't be shocked if Styles is one of the guys chosen. The point being is because of the rule TNA made about wrestlers not being able to work any promotion that does ippvs, dvds, and tv unless it's a dark match. Those previously mention companies live and die from dvd and ippv sales. AJ's price tag isn't cheap nor will pay itself off just for a dark match. Plus Styles' indy stock isn't as high as it used to be due to that rule by TNA. Years ago, it would be reality. Now, fantasy. |
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Post by Mayonnaise on Oct 26, 2013 18:10:32 GMT -5
It's not that they couldn't craft the story as well or better but Styles and Dixie aren't even close to the level of Punk, Trips, Ace and McMahon. It just comes off as a bad copy and makes them look extremely poor. Not to mention, it's just too soon, IMO, to be doing a damned near exact copy (so far) of a major storyline from WWE and that is a huge part of the problem. They might have been able to do something like this in 2 or 3 more years and it be passable but when the WWE version (which was done pretty damn well outside of the Nash stuff) is still fresh enough in peoples' minds, it makes the TNA version look even worse.
Secondly, as was said, Styles won't be defending the title all over the place. He'll have a match or two for TNA's partners, AAA and whatever Muta is doing, but none of the major indies will touch him. RoH and TNA aren't even close to working together after all TNA has pulled on them, Gabe doesn't run enough and wouldn't book anyone over Gargano (maybe Fox though), and PWG cannot book them because of TNA's rules. That only leaves something like CZW which I don't think would do it or some smaller micro-indie that no one will see so that it becomes pointless. The story is great in idea but (and this goes for WWE too) just cannot be executed in today's wrestling world.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 18:11:20 GMT -5
AJ styles sitting front row at Raw on the opposite side of the tv hard camera where he WOULD be seen I would not bet against this because whats to stop him from purchasing a ticket and just sitting front row and watching the show? of course in context we all know the reason this would be happening but I don't see anything preventing TNA from doin it and quite frankly would be the absoloute smartest thing they could do.
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Oct 26, 2013 18:24:54 GMT -5
I might be the only one but I really liked the Punk/MITB storyline a lot and don't think it needed to be "better". And as much as people hate on Kevin Nash it was A) genuinely surprising when he appeared B) who sent the text was an intriguing mystery and was something that a good portion of the audience wanted to know C) Punk ridiculed Kevin Nash as a giant joke and busted out one of his all time best one liners "I got a text from my little sister Shaylene, "OMG. Kevin Nash. WTF. I thought he was dead. LOL."
So even the "worst" part of the storyline had so may highlights that it will be better than the "best" part of TNA's copy. I can guarantee it.
And let's not even get into the fact that the wrestling matches in TNA will never approach the epic matches we got in WWE because of that storyline. Is AJ even fueding with someone? Bully never cared about AJ anyway and he's moved on. I think TNA forgets that they are supposed to be booking matches sometimes. There isn't even a guy for AJ to feud with that wouldn't require a sudden nonsensical heel turn.
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Oct 26, 2013 18:28:06 GMT -5
AJ styles sitting front row at Raw on the opposite side of the tv hard camera where he WOULD be seen I would not bet against this because whats to stop him from purchasing a ticket and just sitting front row and watching the show? of course in context we all know the reason this would be happening but I don't see anything preventing TNA from doin it and quite frankly would be the absoloute smartest thing they could do. They should do it and WWE should send Punk out to make fun of him for 10 minutes. And every commercial break. |
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