Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 0:21:47 GMT -5
So what exactly is Shawn supposed to have done in the last decade or so? I know Helms has problems with him, but that's about it. I haven't heard anyone else come and say Shawn was a dick to them. There's a lot more accusations about John Cena out there than there is Shawn Michaels these days but everyone still thinks Cena is the greatest most swell guy ever.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Dec 17, 2013 0:22:17 GMT -5
Wait a second, big ego main eventers in wrestling?? *rubs eyes, shakes head* Say WHAT?!!??
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 17, 2013 2:59:34 GMT -5
Where is my supercut of the Undertaker being some redneck biker and throwing his weight around when he was champion?? I mean he made a guy eat his tobacco spit, the guy vomits, and then Taker pours the vomit on him!!! Oddly enough, Undertaker found 'religion' and we love him automatically...
But seriously, I want that guy to just let loose on stories and give his side on the events of his tenure. Hell, I'll settle for the true story of 'taping fists' during the Austin/HBK/Tyson match.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,766
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Post by schma on Dec 17, 2013 4:34:55 GMT -5
My understanding of the Hogan thing is they had a match and Hogan won. They decided to do a rematch and apparently Hogan refused to put Michaels over. He was pissed about this and so in the match he oversold everything Hogan did. If Hogan punched Michaels he went flying halfway across the ring and over the ropes. Given Hogan's history of doing what's good for Hogan, I could see this happening. But it's possible there's more to it. I think you can find the match on youtube.
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Post by celticjobber on Dec 17, 2013 4:38:11 GMT -5
Where is my supercut of the Undertaker being some redneck biker and throwing his weight around when he was champion?? I mean he made a guy eat his tobacco spit, the guy vomits, and then Taker pours the vomit on him!!! Oddly enough, Undertaker found 'religion' and we love him automatically... But seriously, I want that guy to just let loose on stories and give his side on the events of his tenure. Hell, I'll settle for the true story of 'taping fists' during the Austin/HBK/Tyson match.Taker talked about the taping fists WM 14 incident, during an interview with Off The Record several years ago. I don't think it was much beyond he was going to make sure Shawn did the right thing...
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Post by goodbyehorses on Dec 17, 2013 5:08:44 GMT -5
Oh, Cornette's homophobic? That's disappointing. Most of it's actually from Hawk and Adam Bomb oddly enough haha. I guess the shoot was filmed before Hawk went to church with Shawn and cried with him while saying a prayer.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 6:15:56 GMT -5
Most of it's actually from Hawk and Adam Bomb oddly enough haha. This may explain the Road Warriors' homophobia. Road Warriors look to be headed to the Blue Oyster after their match.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 7:21:16 GMT -5
My understanding of the Hogan thing is they had a match and Hogan won. They decided to do a rematch and apparently Hogan refused to put Michaels over. He was pissed about this and so in the match he oversold everything Hogan did. If Hogan punched Michaels he went flying halfway across the ring and over the ropes. Given Hogan's history of doing what's good for Hogan, I could see this happening. But it's possible there's more to it. I think you can find the match on youtube. Not trying to pick on you, as you are far from the only poster who has that view, but I find it funny that people openly bash Hogan despite shoot interviews normally being very positive towards him, yet people run to Shawn's defense, or simply brush aside his 90's behavior as "the past" when practically everyone who met Shawn Michaels has bad things to say about him.
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Optimax
Mephisto
"I came here to hunt ghost and chew bubble gum, and im all out of bubble gum!"
Posts: 728
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Post by Optimax on Dec 17, 2013 7:30:04 GMT -5
Where is my supercut of the Undertaker being some redneck biker and throwing his weight around when he was champion?? I mean he made a guy eat his tobacco spit, the guy vomits, and then Taker pours the vomit on him!!! Oddly enough, Undertaker found 'religion' and we love him automatically... But seriously, I want that guy to just let loose on stories and give his side on the events of his tenure. Hell, I'll settle for the true story of 'taping fists' during the Austin/HBK/Tyson match.Taker talked about the taping fists WM 14 incident, during an interview with Off The Record several years ago. I don't think it was much beyond he was going to make sure Shawn did the right thing... And if he didn't Shawn was going to be in a very bad place. He did also say he had no doubt Shawn would do the right thing
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 17, 2013 7:44:30 GMT -5
He says he saw Shawn cuss out a lot of people and bury them to Vince, and he because of this he feels that Shawn is a hypocrite about finding the lord. How is that hypocritical? I didn't know religious people were supposed to be these precious vessels that aren't allowed to have the same emotional outbursts as the rest of us. I get so tired of the "well you're a _______, so you should know better" accusations that people use. And I'm not even religious. The only statement that Helms should use is one he did later make, in the sense that Shawn is a main eventer and Helms was not. No need to drag personally beliefs into this, but he did make himself look even more ridiculous by comparing Shawn to people of the Bible, which again is silly. Regardless of beliefs or lackthereof, everyone should be held accountable as equals. Being something or being nothing doesn't make you better or less than anyone else. Helms did make several points in his shoot, but the problem is the way he addressed his issues. I'd say a lot of his accusations about being buried, was likely the growing attitude among the two, but I'd say it goes both way. Also, while he has come off as a much more chill guy in more recent interviews, he has had problems with violence in the past, especially the horeshit assault he did to Buff Bagwell. I really liked Helms as a character and do think he could be a nice guy in real life, his mishaps with the law and attitude and pent up aggression take away any merit he may have in terms of anything he says. I didn't say he was right in that Shawn was a hypocrite I was just explaining why he felt so.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 17, 2013 8:02:57 GMT -5
Where is my supercut of the Undertaker being some redneck biker and throwing his weight around when he was champion?? I mean he made a guy eat his tobacco spit, the guy vomits, and then Taker pours the vomit on him!!! Oddly enough, Undertaker found 'religion' and we love him automatically... I hope you're joking which I think you are since you mention the Tommy Dreamer thing from 2002.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 17, 2013 8:38:47 GMT -5
Shawn being a hypocrite really does depend on how he carries himself in his day to day life, if he uses his Christianity as a shield to excuse all of his behavior, claiming to be a changed man while still being as thoroughly rotten as he was, then sure, hypocrite, there are a lot of born again people like that, however, we don't know that he is. All we have to go on is what people say and most of the people commenting in this video tend to be guys who haven't had any contact with him since the early 2000s at the latest so really aren't placed to comment on Shawn today, with Shane Helms as the lone voice from the 2000s locker room. Most of his disappointment seems to come from the fact he grew up idolising Shawn and he turned out to be another wrestler with his own agenda rather than some saintly father figure, there to guide his career.
I have no doubt the Hogan match was a petulant reaction to Hogan basically killing a program that would have made them both and the company a bunch of money, but he's human and he hasn't come out with some BS excuse tio try and make it all seem justified. At the end of the day, Bret Hart who suffered as much as anyone because of Shawn, who saw him at his very worst, seems happy to have let it go and accept Shawn has tried to change.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 17, 2013 15:38:54 GMT -5
I didn't say he was right in that Shawn was a hypocrite I was just explaining why he felt so. I know you didn't. I was just explaining why it came off so negative in the shoot. if he uses his Christianity as a shield to excuse all of his behavior, claiming to be a changed man while still being as thoroughly rotten as he was, All that most people go on is that he IS religious now, so he must be this perfect guy. I've never heard him ever publicly use his religion as a means excusing himself. The only times he's publicly used it is; 1. Talking about turning his life around via documentaries or his intial return 2. Explaining why he doesn't want to do certain things anymore, since it makes him uncomfortable. I doubt Shawn starts a bunch of shit, then continues forward by saying "I'm not at fault here because I'm religious". I don't think anyone is that stupid. Now, I have met religious people who are condescending pricks who accuse you of being ungodly or a pagan and they rub their beliefs in your face...and I've never heard a single story about Shawn doing that to others. Most people who have remarked about Shawn is he kept to himself about things, unless someone asked him about something. It's more of him now being under a microscope for a choices made in his life. "Oh, he's a Christian? Well, he better not make human error!" That's ridiculous.
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Post by Chestnutrice on Dec 17, 2013 17:35:27 GMT -5
Only problem I have is that people think he's supposed to be a model human being, just because he turned to Christianity. Jericho mentioned the incident, and took full blame for it. I think this was when Jericho punched Michael's wife, and life imitated art.
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Post by Bootista on Dec 17, 2013 17:36:57 GMT -5
The thread title could take a different meaning
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Post by Andy Martin on Dec 17, 2013 17:48:41 GMT -5
I just can't take anything Cornette says seriously.
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ZERO
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,933
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Post by ZERO on Dec 17, 2013 17:51:36 GMT -5
My understanding of the Hogan thing is they had a match and Hogan won. They decided to do a rematch and apparently Hogan refused to put Michaels over. He was pissed about this and so in the match he oversold everything Hogan did. If Hogan punched Michaels he went flying halfway across the ring and over the ropes. Given Hogan's history of doing what's good for Hogan, I could see this happening. But it's possible there's more to it. I think you can find the match on youtube. I definitely remember a compilation of Michaels' overselling being on youtube. T'was grand. I also remember after Summerslam, and HBK was about to turn face again, the crowd was getting on his case for losing to Hogan, and he just snapped and just said Hogan's gone and he won't be back until he wants paying again. Which leads me to believe the story about Hogan refusing to lose a rematch. As for that youtube video of the shoots, nearly all of them just come off as incredibly bitter (Helms especially, and not just in that video) and acting like they're more interesting than they really are and what they have to say is some big revelation. I do like the repetition of Cornette's "And by the way Shawn, F**k you too!" though. As for HBK himself, and him finding religion and becoming all "holier than thou" so to speak, that's typical of most born-again Christians, in my experience. It's not unique to Shawn Michaels.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2013 18:32:51 GMT -5
Two things.
1: It's very possible Shawn not trying to live up to an absolutely perfect christian image and letting himself get emotional, petty and angry sometimes has been an important release valve for him. It may have stopped him from relapsing to his demons the way a guy like Jake has.
2. I LOVE Shawn's selling in that match for Hogan. Hogan is a damn superhero. Captain America. And when Captain America gets in a fight with some annoying little pretty boy jerk, he should be kicking his ribs through the roof of the building. I think that was the best thing Shawn could of done.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 17, 2013 18:44:06 GMT -5
Of course he's a prick, but some of these guys are too. That's just wrestling.
I will say though, he is probably a bigger prick than most. RVD who by all accounts is a really nice guy hates Shawn's guts. Keep in mind he speaks highly of Randy Orton and Batista.
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Post by The Gambler Fan on Dec 17, 2013 20:34:51 GMT -5
I can't stand Jim Cornette.
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