BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 17, 2013 21:54:20 GMT -5
Where is my supercut of the Undertaker being some redneck biker and throwing his weight around when he was champion?? I mean he made a guy eat his tobacco spit, the guy vomits, and then Taker pours the vomit on him!!! Oddly enough, Undertaker found 'religion' and we love him automatically... I hope you're joking which I think you are since you mention the Tommy Dreamer thing from 2002. Yea pretty much. I was trying to parody the HBK finding religion with American Bad Ass Undertaker going back to the dark side And celticjobber that interview is on YouTube and I'm gonna check it out, thanks!
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 17, 2013 22:56:02 GMT -5
My understanding of the Hogan thing is they had a match and Hogan won. They decided to do a rematch and apparently Hogan refused to put Michaels over. He was pissed about this and so in the match he oversold everything Hogan did. If Hogan punched Michaels he went flying halfway across the ring and over the ropes. Given Hogan's history of doing what's good for Hogan, I could see this happening. But it's possible there's more to it. I think you can find the match on youtube. Not trying to pick on you, as you are far from the only poster who has that view, but I find it funny that people openly bash Hogan despite shoot interviews normally being very positive towards him, yet people run to Shawn's defense, or simply brush aside his 90's behavior as "the past" when practically everyone who met Shawn Michaels has bad things to say about him. Workrate. And it sounds cliche, but I believe it. He's a great performer, so alot of shit he did gets looked over. People say he's changed, and I'm sure that is true to an extent, but remember, he best bro is HHH, so he really doesn't have to worry about his legacy or getting buried. The only time he really lost in a power struggle was to Hogan, and after that he had a hissy fit.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 17, 2013 23:37:03 GMT -5
guys, for Christmas this year we should all pitch in and buy Jim Cornette a cross. that way, every time he needs to bellow about how he hates such and such wrestler, he can go nail himself to it.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 17, 2013 23:41:10 GMT -5
Wait a second, big ego main eventers in wrestling?? *rubs eyes, shakes head* Say WHAT?!!?? good point. that said, name one other main eventer who had a more undeserved ego than 90s Shawn Michaels.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Dec 17, 2013 23:57:25 GMT -5
Wait a second, big ego main eventers in wrestling?? *rubs eyes, shakes head* Say WHAT?!!?? good point. that said, name one other main eventer who had a more undeserved ego than 90s Shawn Michaels. Undeserved egos? I can name many. HBK had a deserved ego as he arguably carried the company on his back through 96/97. NOW... If you were to ask me "Name one other main eventer who had a shittier attitude behind the scenes and sabotaged more careers through said driven ego"... I think you would have stumped me. But at least HBK has countlessly acknowledged that he was a terrible person to work with back then. So... you know. At least he's honest about that.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 18, 2013 0:06:05 GMT -5
I didn't know Vince could still last 15 minutes.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 18, 2013 0:49:52 GMT -5
good point. that said, name one other main eventer who had a more undeserved ego than 90s Shawn Michaels. Undeserved egos? I can name many. HBK had a deserved ego as he arguably carried the company on his back through 96/97. NOW... If you were to ask me "Name one other main eventer who had a shittier attitude behind the scenes and sabotaged more careers through said driven ego"... I think you would have stumped me. But at least HBK has countlessly acknowledged that he was a terrible person to work with back then. So... you know. At least he's honest about that. I think it was more a comment on the fact that Shawn was a bust as a main eventer in the '90s but had an ego on-par with Hogan.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Dec 18, 2013 1:18:45 GMT -5
Undeserved egos? I can name many. HBK had a deserved ego as he arguably carried the company on his back through 96/97. NOW... If you were to ask me "Name one other main eventer who had a shittier attitude behind the scenes and sabotaged more careers through said driven ego"... I think you would have stumped me. But at least HBK has countlessly acknowledged that he was a terrible person to work with back then. So... you know. At least he's honest about that. I think it was more a comment on the fact that Shawn was a bust as a main eventer in the '90s but had an ego on-par with Hogan. Oh. I dunno if that was a fact that he was a bust. He kicked ass. I thought he was awesome in the 90s.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Dec 18, 2013 1:31:35 GMT -5
I think it was more a comment on the fact that Shawn was a bust as a main eventer in the '90s but had an ego on-par with Hogan. Oh. I dunno if that was a fact that he was a bust. He kicked ass. I thought he was awesome in the 90s. He was excellent from an in-ring perspective, but at the time when the business was on its ass and acted like he was the Hogan of the '90s. Hogan was selling out huge arenas, HBK was headlining a period where WWF were working high school gyms. granted, he wasn't respnsible alone for this, but he certainly wasn't drawing in new fans.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Dec 18, 2013 1:39:34 GMT -5
Yeah, as much as I enjoy Michaels and enjoyed his work at the time, alot of people overlook or rewrite how much the fanbase as a whole really did reject him at the top. More than a few disliked the fact that this little pretty boy was trotted out and they were expected to get behind him after more masculine men like Hogan & Savage & Warrior, and even guys like Bret and Undertaker were kicking around. And, it wasn't exactly an uncommon thing amongst the smarky community at the time to take jabs at him about his appearance or his situation with Vince.
Admittedly I think in part this could've been avoided had Vince not kept the throttle on the HBK push as hard as he did. He likely would've been more accepted as a main event talent had he been more eased into the role and not pushed as strongly in the role. Much like HHH and Cena after him, actually.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 18, 2013 1:40:26 GMT -5
good point. that said, name one other main eventer who had a more undeserved ego than 90s Shawn Michaels. Undeserved egos? I can name many. HBK had a deserved ego as he arguably carried the company on his back through 96/97. Carried the company in 1997? No way. In 1997 he lost his smile and disappeared for a few months, while the company was being carried by Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart, which morphed into USA vs The Hart Foundation. He came back for awhile, and then left. The work was being done by other guys. Even when Shawn came back full time, and won the title, it was Austin that the company was more focused on. Shawn didn't carry the company.
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,629
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Post by unc40 on Dec 18, 2013 1:47:46 GMT -5
Saying that Michaels carried the company in 1996-97 is like saying Scottie Pippen carried the Bulls to 6 NBA championships.
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Post by monstermike87 on Dec 18, 2013 1:53:35 GMT -5
Yeah, mid-90's Shawn was the definition of ego gone wild. He really wasn't a draw, he straight up buried and refused to work with people, and was just an annoying twit in general.
And he still doesn't admit to alot of what (allegedy, I guess) happened then other than "I was a different person back then." Even Nash said the losing his smile thing was a work to get off the road at least, which he still claims was a career threatening knee injury. It's like he wanted the glory but nothing that came with it.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 18, 2013 2:44:27 GMT -5
I never brought the idea he had changed. All that'd changed is that his mate now essentially said what's what and he didn't have to throw tantrums to get his own way any more. The way this 'reformed character' was allowed to bury an event for which people had paid $40 for the night before on the basis that he couldn't get his own way, showed really just how 'changed' he is.
Never trust anyone who is too keen on telling you how much they've changed. It's generally over compensation for wishing they had but actually haven't. He may be off drugs but it wasn't the drugs that made him an asshole. He was merely an asshole who was on drugs. Now the drugs have gone he's most likely still a asshole.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 18, 2013 2:46:59 GMT -5
Ok, now I'm confused... I've heard Hogan say that the plan was for Hogan to go over at SummerSlam, and then HBK to get his win back, and then for there to be build to a third blowoff match but he pulled out because of something HBK did.
Why didn't the program continue?
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 18, 2013 3:09:39 GMT -5
Saying that Michaels carried the company in 1996-97 is like saying Scottie Pippen carried the Bulls to 6 NBA championships. That's kind of mean. Without Pippen the Bulls don't win 6 NBA Titles, without Shawn the WWF still wins the Monday Night Wars.
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Post by The Beast Disincarnate on Dec 18, 2013 4:37:30 GMT -5
I never bought the "career ending injury", i think it was bullshit, he was hurt but could have come back a few months after, but he couldn't accept not to be the focus point anymore. He couldn't accept to be in the shadow of Austin. It took him years to finally accept to be a third wheel in the company...and he still waited for Austin to leave the company before he could return.
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Dec 18, 2013 4:41:44 GMT -5
but he certainly wasn't drawing in new fans. But um... How do you explain me? :/ Guys, by saying he carried the company I don't mean it as "he carried the bad wrestler to a good match". I meant it as, like, ahem... HBK was 'The Face of the WWF' in 1996. And personally I believe he did a damn good job at that. That's all I was saying.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Dec 18, 2013 4:54:43 GMT -5
Ok, now I'm confused... I've heard Hogan say that the plan was for Hogan to go over at SummerSlam, and then HBK to get his win back, and then for there to be build to a third blowoff match but he pulled out because of something HBK did. Why didn't the program continue? I'd see no reason for it to continue. I'm quite glad we had a programme that wasn't done to death with rematch after rematch until everyone had forgotten why the two were mad at each other in the first place. Hogan's drawing ability is limited if not used correctly. I cannot see him wanting to do three consecutive PPVs much less of the same match and I don't really see anyone wanting to see it either. IMO the talk of splitting the wins was an eventually abandoned diplomacy tactic, possibly on from McMahon. In truth it was a one-off 'dream' match and it drew 650,000 buys and worked a treat.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,013
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 18, 2013 6:22:47 GMT -5
Perhaps HBK is the salt of the earth now, but this just goes to show that your past actions tend to do a lot of long term "damage" (well if a bunch of guys talking crap about you on youtube is damage) that's not easily undone.
Another prime example of this is Muhammad Ali, who is all but lionized now (and by all accounts a good guy). Yet he was so nasty/mean to Joe Frazier that Frazier never forgave him up to his death (well he would then a month or two later would rip on him).
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