Are heels understood?

[Boo!]

I get the feeling a lot of us have forgotten what heels are. There seems to be two types of heel these days


1) I hate him, which means I don't want to see him on TV

2) Awesome heel. I'll cheer him because he's awesome. Woo yeah!

I can't think of many who don't fit into that category. The first you have the likes of Orton who people insist their booing him isn't a sign of appreciation for his work it's because they dislike him and in the second we have a guy like Punk (when heel) who would come out to pops.

Is it the case that we, despite taking pride in how 'smart' we are these days have lost sight of the fundamental fact we're not supposed to like heels and we somehow cannot differentiate between disliking a character and thinking "I dislike the character, therefore I must dislike him and think he's rubbish". Because there seems to be very little middle ground.

It's "I enjoy him therefore I'll cheer him" or "I don't enjoy him therefore I think he shouldn't be on TV" - but isn't the latter just us reacting how we're supposed to in an era where we've long forgotten how to react to things legitimately.

It just seems that you're either hated-hated or cheered because you're loved. I don't really know of a single guy who smart-fans enjoy as a heel and boo as a heel.

[ratetankmark]

Dec 23, 2013 8:56:46 GMT -5 Boo! said:

I get the feeling a lot of us have forgotten what heels are. There seems to be two types of heel these days


1) I hate him, which means I don't want to see him on TV

2) Awesome heel. I'll cheer him because he's awesome. Woo yeah!

I can't think of many who don't fit into that category. The first you have the likes of Orton who people insist their booing him isn't a sign of appreciation for his work it's because they dislike him and in the second we have a guy like Punk (when heel) who would come out to pops.

Is it the case that we, despite taking pride in how 'smart' we are these days have lost sight of the fundamental fact we're not supposed to like heels and we somehow cannot differentiate between disliking a character and thinking "I dislike the character, therefore I must dislike him and think he's rubbish". Because there seems to be very little middle ground.

It's "I enjoy him therefore I'll cheer him" or "I don't enjoy him therefore I think he shouldn't be on TV" - but isn't the latter just us reacting how we're supposed to in an era where we've long forgotten how to react to things legitimately.

It just seems that you're either hated-hated or cheered because you're loved. I don't really know of a single guy who smart-fans enjoy as a heel and boo as a heel.

Muhammad Hassan? I personally know The Mountie was a heel and I enjoyed him because of how goofy and over-the-top he was but I booed him because he was obnoxious as all hell, which was what made him entertaining.

[Deleted]

Triple H is a good heel, people legitimately hate him because he's playing up to his reputation and using it to get heat.


It's the subtle things he does that really makes him a great heel like for example the other week he was cutting a promo whilst holding up the clique sign.

[Deleted]

If I have to deliberately make that distinction in my head, then they're not good enough heels.

I love Bad Influence over in TNA. They are two of my legitimate favorite performers in wrestling and they make me laugh all the time. They are also bullying jerkwads and I can't wait for Joseph Park to carve them up like Christmas Turkeys.

[Germansuplex]

While I see the OP's point (especially concerning Orton), I think that we as an audience might sometimes consciously prefer to cheer the heel. Take some iconic movie villains, for example: Darth Vader, The Joker or Freddy Krüger. Most movie fans love these guys, because they're cool/awesome/entertaining. While we might not want them to win, we enjoy their heel work. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

It's different live, though. On the last house show I was, we booed the hell out of Tyson Kidd. Because he's awesome.

[Deleted]

1) The LARGER problem is that WWE cannot write decent faces so the heels are more loved by default sometimes just by having good characters.

2) I think since the "Post-genie out of the bottle" era the "Awesome heel. I'll cheer him because he's awesome. Woo yeah!" is the new traditional heel. For me at least, heels like Fandango or Ziggler (when he was a heel) are of course awesome, but I loved seeing them get beat down by the face in a blow off match.

Heels can be awesome, but still get their comeuppance in a way that makes for a good story.

[Deleted]

This also isn't a new thing. The Horsemen were super dastardly heels. Didn't stop fans from showing up in fancy suits at TV tapings and girls from screaming their heads off for them. I suspect for a great deal of wrestling people have been "in on the act" of hating heels.

[Deleted]

Just going out there and being shitty so everyone hates you doesn't make you a good heel.

I could go out there right now and suck with no training. I can right this moment, go out and cut terrible promos and wrestle horrible matches. Are you being worked if you don't like me?

[thelonewolf527]

It's one of the misfortunes of people smartening up to the business. Years ago, if a guy you liked turned heel, it hurt you. You felt betrayed that the guy you loved turned his back on you. Nowadays (even for some younger fans) instead of feeling like your favorite wrestler turned on you, you get mad at WWE for turning him heel since you want to cheer him

[Deleted]

Bo Dallas, the right kind of heel right now. I appreciate that he's entertaining, but I want to see him lose because he's a dweeb.

The Shield, I think they're awesome, but I want to see them lose because they're always a step ahead and beating people that I actually do like.

Cheering/booing is a visceral thing. Kayfabe is so dead, and WWE takes it further by presenting things in a "who gives a shit" fashion a lot of the time. I don't think it's about understanding, 20 years ago you didn't have to think "okay this guy is bad and I understand that, I will boo." The booking and presentation just made you feel that way.

[Deleted]

If Alberto Del Rio had a halfway decent character to match his wrestling ability, he'd be a really hated heel with "boo this man" heat instead of "go away" heat.
Unfortunately, he's been shoved down our throats for so long, he's getting "change the channel" heat from me.

[Crimson]

I still find "Go Away Heat" to be a bull**** term.

[Bang Bang Bart]

Some stuff aside, I find the Wyatt Family to be great heels. It's just I want to see them get their asses kicked for going after mah man Bryan Daniels.

[Bo Rida]

Dec 23, 2013 10:38:59 GMT -5 @lovehater said:

Bo Dallas, the right kind of heel right now. I appreciate that he's entertaining, but I want to see him lose because he's a dweeb.

The Shield, I think they're awesome, but I want to see them lose because they're always a step ahead and beating people that I actually do like.

Cheering/booing is a visceral thing. Kayfabe is so dead, and WWE takes it further by presenting things in a "who gives a shit" fashion a lot of the time. I don't think it's about understanding, 20 years ago you didn't have to think "okay this guy is bad and I understand that, I will boo." The booking and presentation just made you feel that way.

Yep, of all people Bo bloody Dallas is the best heel around today, he's entertaining so doesn't get "go away heat" but is such a dweeb that he doesn't do anything cool enough to get cheered. He's what a heel should be, you want to see him get beat (as opposed to not wanting to see him at all) and you love to hate him.

The Shield are an interesting case, people clearly like them but and you'd think they'd be the sort of stable that would get cheered eventually but they've managed to remain heels for over a year.
I think that's largely due to the way WWE has booked them, hopefully they can take the lessons learned from that stable and apply it to other heels.
You don't want a situation where a heel is getting increasingly popular and is paired with a face that is struggling but it's something WWE keep doing, it was successful with Cena and his 50/50(ish) reactions but it undermines most people.

[shaker]

I cheer for good guys because I like them. I boo bad guys because they are bad.

Bad guys can be bad for different reasons.

The Shield are bad guys because they beat up good guys and sometimes cheat to win matches. Paul Heyman is bad because he has his team of guys beat people up. Alberto is bad because nobody likes him so he decided to be bad to show them.

Good guys can also be good for different reasons.

John Cena is good because he fights bad guys. Daniel Bryan is good because he believes in being fair to everyone. Mark Henry is good because he has been around a long time and been both good and bad and now wants to be good and help people.

Sometimes bad guys become good guys. Daniel Bryan was a bad guy who became a good guy because all his fights made him remember being a good guy again and he doesn't like cheating.

Sometimes good guys become bad guys. AJ Lee was a good guy who became a bad guy because she wants to be a bad guy.

This is all from the mouth of my 5 year old nephew. I wish we could all take a page from him and just enjoy wrestling on a simpler level. Gorilla - I read your first post 12 times and it makes no sense. But good guys vs bad guys? That makes sense.

[g1megatronfan]

For me it's option 1.

I just think all the heels in WWE are stupid. I don't want to see them get their asses kicked. I'd rather not see them at all. I know why they have "good and bad guys" but everything is just so stupid about them I find it impossible to really give a damn. There isn't many heels on WWE's roster that I find entertaining or even interesting in the slightest with the exception of 1. There's nothing to them that makes me as a viewer "hate" them enough to want to see them get theirs.

Triple H, Orton, The Shield, The Wyatt's, Stephanie, Fandango etc...do nothing for me. The closest heel they had to entertaining me is Sandow. He can be entertaining at times but the other ones I just mentioned...I could honestly care less if I ever seen them again. Maybe it's me but I don't see anything in them at this point.

This is just my opinion so if you like these guys...more power to you.

[barelybeastmode]

I absolutely cheer heels if I find them entertaining enough. I've never really understood the mentality of booing someone just because he's the bad guy and morally bankrupt. And it's not just wrestling that I feel that way about. A good example would be comic book movies like The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises. The Joker was immensely entertaining, funny, quirky and batsh*t insane which made him unpredictable and fun to watch. Bane? Freakishly strong, wickedly intelligent and with lofty goals and unquestioning command over his men. Bruce Wayne/Batman? Nothing about him drew me in. Nothing! I enjoyed watching him get his ass kicked.

For me, the WWE is the same. The heels that I enjoy(ed) like The Wyatts, The Shield, Mark Henry while he was feuding with Sheamus, Rhodes Scholars etc... they all have/had depth, purpose (even if it only makes sense to them) or are just so damn intriguing and interesting that they're always fun to watch.

Hell, my sister and I disagreed on Ryback's entertainment value up until he turned heel and then I was suddenly on board. He had a purpose then and his motivations seemed genuine. It made me want to see him kick Cena's ass especially after that first promo. He finally had personality and I became invested in him.

This isn't to say that there aren't faces I enjoy because there are. But I don't cheer them just because they're "good guys" I cheer them because they entertain me. If I'm not being entertained then what's the point of even watching?

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2013 12:08:06 GMT -5 barelybeastmode said:

I absolutely cheer heels if I find them entertaining enough. I've never really understood the mentality of booing someone just because he's the bad guy and morally bankrupt. And it's not just wrestling that I feel that way about. A good example would be comic book movies like The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises. The Joker was immensely entertaining, funny, quirky and batsh*t insane which made him unpredictable and fun to watch. Bane? Freakishly strong, wickedly intelligent and with lofty goals and unquestioning command over his men. Bruce Wayne/Batman? Nothing about him drew me in. Nothing! I enjoyed watching him get his ass kicked.

For me, the WWE is the same. The heels that I enjoy(ed) like The Wyatts, The Shield, Mark Henry while he was feuding with Sheamus, Rhodes Scholars etc... they all have/had depth, purpose (even if it only makes sense to them) or are just so damn intriguing and interesting that they're always fun to watch.

Hell, my sister and I disagreed on Ryback's entertainment value up until he turned heel and then I was suddenly on board. He had a purpose then and his motivations seemed genuine. It made me want to see him kick Cena's ass especially after that first promo. He finally had personality and I became invested in him.

This isn't to say that there aren't faces I enjoy because there are. But I don't cheer them just because they're "good guys" I cheer them because they entertain me. If I'm not being entertained then what's the point of even watching?

When I'm watching live, my heel cheer is the boo. I just got used to it a long time ago. If I like heels I boo them. If I find them boring, I'll be silent. I figure they'd rather I boo them so I will.

[PKO]

On the whole we're very analytical on these boards. We tend to focus on the performers rather than the characters, and focus on the storyline's quality rather than get caught up in the story. Heels usually get more material to work with so we're very vocal in our appreciation. But most people here want good stories, and good stories usually end with the villain getting their comeuppance.

[Sparkybob]

I always feel heels should be boo'd if they are in a story-line but I understand it's an old fashion way of thinking.