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Post by revolver86 on Feb 7, 2014 0:56:19 GMT -5
Triple H's problem has always been that he looks at the business the same way the people he admired and respected looked at it, in the days of the territories. When it comes to the fundamentals, the man's a genius, but when it comes to the end game and long term, he's lost, because this is not the same business he was born in. He has become the face of what needs to change in this new age for pro wrestling to survive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 0:57:34 GMT -5
The only two people HHH "put over" was Batista and Shelton Benjamin. Batista he cemented as a top star and he helped turn Shelton from a tag wrestler into a singles star.
That's all I can think of though. You could argue others but they were either A) already a star or B) he made them look bad before he made them look good or vice versa i.e. Sheamus.
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Tony Schiavontay
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This is the greatest post in the history of this board!
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Feb 7, 2014 1:01:36 GMT -5
TL;DR version of this thread
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 7, 2014 1:02:30 GMT -5
Do you mean put someone over or have someone beat him? Because I'm fairly certain he put over Taka at some point. Triple H vs TAKA Michinoku was a really damn nice match. While it's not HHH's fault, the thing that gets overlooked here is the non-existent follow up. Taka nearly beat and outwitted HHH, and was back on Sunday Night Heat the next week trading wins and losses with the likes of the Mean Street Posse. It was absolutely ridiculous that nothing came of it.
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JCBaggee
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Post by JCBaggee on Feb 7, 2014 1:03:06 GMT -5
Sheamus took Trips off the table for a good 9 months and never really got revenge.
Well, unless you count saddling him with that King of the Ring gimmick.
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Post by Raskovnik on Feb 7, 2014 1:04:20 GMT -5
I love the guy but putting people over isn't his strong suit.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Feb 7, 2014 1:06:19 GMT -5
Sheamus took Trips off the table for a good 9 months and never really got revenge. Well, unless you count saddling him with that King of the Ring gimmick. When HHH made his comeback, he beat the holy hell out of King Sheamus and Pedigreed him through the announce table, which subsequently allowed Sheamus to lose to Evan Bourne. He got his vengeance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 1:13:09 GMT -5
Would it be fair to say he is the most selfish man in the history of the business? Nothing he does benifits the company, only himself and his best buddies. He has never put anyone over and it looks like he will bury quite a few more guys in the future before he finally (hopefully) calls it quits. Not even slightly. For one thing, Hulk Hogan. For another, a solid 80% of promoters throughout the history of the business. There is no way Hogan did more harm to his opponents than HHH. Hogan, just using one example off the top of my head, made Earthquake's career in a 10 minute Brother Love segment. He sold Quake's finish like it was death itself and contemplated retirement (kayfabe obviously) because he didn't know whether he could come back from that. If that same situation happened today with HHH, not only would he shove the officials away and walk to the back on his own power instead of doing a stretcher job, but he wouldn't even sell the beating verbally. Hogan was selfish as far as keeping his top spot for as long as he could (he even admitted that on OTR as he explained it was before guaranteed contracts and you had to be cunning to stay on top), but I don't think he made guys look worse in the ring. Hogan's whole shtick was to sell a beating for 75% of the match and then Hulk Up at the end. As a heel in WCW I don't recall a match he won without blatant outside interference. HHH was a heel who won matches clean, outsmarted opponents, and was built as superior to most/all babyfaces. That never happens in wrestling. HHH is on a whole other level when it comes to burials. We joke about it, and his supporters call it HHHate, but it is what it is.
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Cvslfc123
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Post by Cvslfc123 on Feb 7, 2014 4:25:03 GMT -5
for what it's worth, he did job to the likes of Test and D-Von Dudley in 2002.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2014 5:23:14 GMT -5
Not even slightly. For one thing, Hulk Hogan. For another, a solid 80% of promoters throughout the history of the business. There is no way Hogan did more harm to his opponents than HHH. Hogan, just using one example off the top of my head, made Earthquake's career in a 10 minute Brother Love segment. He sold Quake's finish like it was death itself and contemplated retirement (kayfabe obviously) because he didn't know whether he could come back from that. If that same situation happened today with HHH, not only would he shove the officials away and walk to the back on his own power instead of doing a stretcher job, but he wouldn't even sell the beating verbally. Hogan was selfish as far as keeping his top spot for as long as he could (he even admitted that on OTR as he explained it was before guaranteed contracts and you had to be cunning to stay on top), but I don't think he made guys look worse in the ring. Hogan's whole shtick was to sell a beating for 75% of the match and then Hulk Up at the end. As a heel in WCW I don't recall a match he won without blatant outside interference. HHH was a heel who won matches clean, outsmarted opponents, and was built as superior to most/all babyfaces. That never happens in wrestling. HHH is on a whole other level when it comes to burials. We joke about it, and his supporters call it HHHate, but it is what it is. This is actually true. Hogan is the perfect example of someone who can put you over in a feud even if he beats you, and by later in his career when he wouldn't put people over in the match itself so much (like Sting at Starrcade) he would still put you over in the buildup, and he sold everything like death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 7:37:11 GMT -5
Sheamus took Trips off the table for a good 9 months and never really got revenge. Well, unless you count saddling him with that King of the Ring gimmick. When HHH made his comeback, he beat the holy hell out of King Sheamus and Pedigreed him through the announce table, which subsequently allowed Sheamus to lose to Evan Bourne. He got his vengeance. Plus to even beat him, Sheamus had to sneak-attack him with a pipe then Brogue Kick him like five times.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Feb 7, 2014 8:37:11 GMT -5
Shelto Benjamin (who didn't capitalize) and Batista (who did) are the only ones I can think of. even John Freaking Cena spent most of his feud talking about how Triple H was so much better than him the whole time.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Feb 7, 2014 8:41:17 GMT -5
OK the rest I'll give you but putting over the Undertaker does NOT count And he didn't really put over Taker. The first match he lost, then came out on Raw perfectly fine and said he really won since Taker got wheeled out. Rematch; he lost pretty definitively but got a fancy exit since it was the "end of an era". Even though he lost he was built up as a huge deal, like he was better than Austin and Hogan combined. He strikes me as insanely insecure, like he was constantly bullied as a kid. He wins more often than not, if he loses then the other guy practically bows down to him, and he has to be the coolest guy on the roster. Like Orton is champ, but guess what? HHH is cooler and also funnier and smarter and everyone likes him or is scared of him and jealous of him. if there was ever an example of a wrestler being a Mary Sue...
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 7, 2014 10:56:23 GMT -5
This is actually true. Hogan is the perfect example of someone who can put you over in a feud even if he beats you, and by later in his career when he wouldn't put people over in the match itself so much (like Sting at Starrcade) he would still put you over in the buildup, and he sold everything like death. But that buildup is meaningless when you're made to look like ass in the match that people are paying to see, like Sting. The match needed to end with Sting beating Hogan clean but it never happened, every time he lost there was always some interference which got utterly ridiculous in 1999 where the only way Hogan, as a heel would lose to Ric Flair, as a face, was after outside interference, weapon shots and with the help of a crooked ref... That isn't putting anyone over except Hogan. Triple H and Hulk Hogan seem to forget that as heels, it was their duty to put over the face, they need to get some comeuppance for their dastardly deeds to keep the audience coming back each week but both men went out of their way to avoid that and their companies suffered as a result. Most wrestling feuds should end with the face getting his hand raised and standing there with his head held high, looking like a million bucks, but the majority of feuds with Hunter and Hogan ended with the face looking like ten, no matter how hot they were going into it and there's no justification for that.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2014 10:59:34 GMT -5
This is actually true. Hogan is the perfect example of someone who can put you over in a feud even if he beats you, and by later in his career when he wouldn't put people over in the match itself so much (like Sting at Starrcade) he would still put you over in the buildup, and he sold everything like death. But that buildup is meaningless when you're made to look like ass in the match that people are paying to see, like Sting. The match needed to end with Sting beating Hogan clean but it never happened, every time he lost there was always some interference which got utterly ridiculous in 1999 where the only way Hogan, as a heel would lose to Ric Flair, as a face, was after outside interference, weapon shots and with the help of a crooked ref... That isn't putting anyone over except Hogan. Triple H and Hulk Hogan seem to forget that as heels, it was their duty to put over the face, they need to get some comeuppance for their dastardly deeds to keep the audience coming back each week but both men went out of their way to avoid that and their companies suffered as a result. Most wrestling feuds should end with the face getting his hand raised and standing there with his head held high, looking like a million bucks, but the majority of feuds with Hunter and Hogan ended with the face looking like ten, no matter how hot they were going into it and there's no justification for that. I agree with you. My point though, is that firstly Hogan in his glory days pre-now and having too much clout did actually make his opponents look good in matches even if he beat them. My other point was that even if he didn't put you over in the match, he would at least put you over in the promos and Triple H won't even do that.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Feb 7, 2014 12:57:12 GMT -5
Triple H must have gotten a lot of shit for that schnoz back in school and we and his opponents have been suffering for it ever since.
Damn you Triple H's schoolyear bullies!! DAMN YOU!!
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Feb 7, 2014 13:41:23 GMT -5
*Looks at thread*
Oh, it's that time of the week again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 14:36:47 GMT -5
This is actually true. Hogan is the perfect example of someone who can put you over in a feud even if he beats you, and by later in his career when he wouldn't put people over in the match itself so much (like Sting at Starrcade) he would still put you over in the buildup, and he sold everything like death. But that buildup is meaningless when you're made to look like ass in the match that people are paying to see, like Sting. The match needed to end with Sting beating Hogan clean but it never happened, every time he lost there was always some interference which got utterly ridiculous in 1999 where the only way Hogan, as a heel would lose to Ric Flair, as a face, was after outside interference, weapon shots and with the help of a crooked ref... That isn't putting anyone over except Hogan. Triple H and Hulk Hogan seem to forget that as heels, it was their duty to put over the face, they need to get some comeuppance for their dastardly deeds to keep the audience coming back each week but both men went out of their way to avoid that and their companies suffered as a result. Most wrestling feuds should end with the face getting his hand raised and standing there with his head held high, looking like a million bucks, but the majority of feuds with Hunter and Hogan ended with the face looking like ten, no matter how hot they were going into it and there's no justification for that. Sting match aside (I agree Hulk should have jobbed clean there), you'd be hard pressed to find an example of Hogan doing anything CLOSE to what HHH does on a routine basis. Hogan in WCW actually CRIED and sobbed "I'm sorry" into the mic when the Giant grabbed him by the throat and threatened to chokeslam him. Hollywood Hogan was a textbook chickenshit heel that would hide behind his cronies and win by blatant cheating. Like I said, I can't recall a match as a heel that he won convincingly. He submitted clean to Piper and Luger, and it wasn't the "stay in the hold for 10 minutes and then tap out" situation that HHH is usually in. He submitted quickly and in the case of Piper, passed out to the sleeper hold. I know people will say he didn't job clean to Goldberg because his attention was diverted for a few seconds, but that was after Goldberg kicked out of multiple leg drops and popped back up a minute later for the finish. As a babyface he would always sell for his opponents whether he was facing Andre or HTM. As a face he would always hype his opponents up in pre-match hype promos. As a heel, he was dirty, underhanded, and a coward. You can say a lot of things about Hulk - yes he cared about his spot on top, he wanted the most money, etc, etc, etc - but he knew how "dis bizness" worked. HHH can't show weakness as a heel and can't show vulnerability as a face. You take those elements out of any character, and the audience simply cannot relate to them. Hence why HHH, trying desperately to garner sympathy after tapping out to Lesnar, was met with "you tapped out" chants. He is the one who conditioned fans to believe he has no weakness, so why would they suddenly sympathize with him? I forgot who said this (might have been someone like Jake or Foley), but if you make your opponent look like crap and then beat him, then the fans will think you beat a piece of crap. That's HHH's career in a nutshell. However, he has somehow mastered the art of doing a job and actually making his opponent look bad, which is something not too many guys can do (maybe because they haven't tried).
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Feb 7, 2014 14:56:40 GMT -5
I wonder if Triple H realizes what he does. His argument is usually "I'm not as bad as people say" but gives no evidence to back that up. In fact, he's openly lied in interviews about his booking power. He has said he doesn't know who he's facing or who wins until he gets to the arena...despite him beinig on the booking team since the 90's.
It's kind of sad that the most interesting thing to me about him is his Jekyl and Hyde booking. He can put out an interview about his plans for the business or do something like making a deal with Sammartino, and they're brilliant. Then he comes on TV and shits all over a storyline, or says some stupid quote like the broomstick one. It's like all good ideas stop when he's on screen 99% of the time.
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Post by cool guy on Feb 7, 2014 15:01:58 GMT -5
I'm confused at people even asking who Cena has put over, when both Punk and Bryan were elevated to the main event by beating him.
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