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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 14, 2014 11:06:50 GMT -5
Yeah, gun wielding maniacs aren't the problem, it's 16 year old scared girls. A person defending his home from a mysterious stranger in bed with his daughter, possibly raping her, is not a gun wielding maniac. Seriously. It's hyperbole to describe somebody who had to make a very difficult, traumatic decision as a gun wielding maniac. I think he did the right thing in the situation, knowing what he apparently knew at the time. Diagreeing with what he did is fine. I can see the problematic parts of his actions as well. At the same time, though... What is the benefit of referring to him as a gun wielding maniac? It's obvious that his actions weren't in cold blood. It's also obvious his actions weren't the actions of somebody who was unhinged or crazy. It was the apparent actions of a man who was trying to protect his daughter. Granted, more -could- come out that changes this perspective entirely, but it hasn't as of yet. |
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Mar 14, 2014 11:16:54 GMT -5
Yeah, gun wielding maniacs aren't the problem, it's 16 year old scared girls. A person defending his home from a mysterious stranger in bed with his daughter, possibly raping her, is not a gun wielding maniac. Seriously. It's hyperbole to describe somebody who had to make a very difficult, traumatic decision as a gun wielding maniac. I think he did the right thing in the situation, knowing what he apparently knew at the time. Diagreeing with what he did is fine. I can see the problematic parts of his actions as well. At the same time, though... What is the benefit of referring to him as a gun wielding maniac? It's obvious that his actions weren't in cold blood. It's also obvious his actions weren't the actions of somebody who was unhinged or crazy. It was the apparent actions of a man who was trying to protect his daughter. Granted, more -could- come out that changes this perspective entirely, but it hasn't as of yet. Agreed. No arrests so far. So the initial preponderance of evidence at circumstance, suggest that the use of deadly force was prudent and justified. That actually is gun control exhibits A. A responsible adult having met legal requirements to posses a fire arm for defense, used a legally procured gun for defense of his home, self and family. He did not barge into a theatre or school and begin shooting at random or at predetermined targets. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 14, 2014 11:17:28 GMT -5
He asked if she knew him, she said no.
Therefore he thought she could be in danger. The kid then appeared to reach for something, so the guy reacted.
Anyone who says that in that moment, they wouldn't probably do the same thing is kidding themself
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Post by The Last Hero on Mar 14, 2014 11:44:31 GMT -5
Good to see shoot to kill because the other guy could have a gun is still going strong and never going away. Now several people are going to have to live with the responsibility of a dead 17 year old.
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Sparkybob
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I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Mar 14, 2014 11:49:23 GMT -5
Good to see shoot to kill because the other guy could have a gun is still going strong and never going away. Now several people are going to have to live with the responsibility of a dead 17 year old. I'm not gun owner, but I believe the mentality is only shoot to kill. If you don't need to kill don't pull out the Gun. |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 14, 2014 12:06:27 GMT -5
Good to see shoot to kill because the other guy could have a gun is still going strong and never going away. Now several people are going to have to live with the responsibility of a dead 17 year old. In a possible life-or-death crisis situation you simply don't always have the luxury of asking a person who may be trying to kill you or somebody you love, "Pardon me Sir, but do you perhaps have a hidden weapon in or around your person." Sometimes you do. As I've said before, I was in a situation where a stranger was in my home several months ago. He just walked into my house at about 1 AM and was seemingly disoriented. Luckily, I was awake at that hour and the lights were on. I was able to appraise the situation and reason with an older man who was clearly confused and disoriented--I didn't have to go get one of my guns. That's a blessing. If you change just a few variables to the situation, then everything changes. We live in the middle of nowhere. It's about 30 to 45 minutes to get any kind of police or medical help. If I had been asleep when he came in and all the lights had been off in the house, then the situation probably would have ended very differently. It would have been a logical response as well. Protecting your home, your family, and your life is your paramount responsibility and you simply cannot afford to assume that other people will do it for you. This guy was in his own home. It was about 2 AM. He was told that there was a strange man in bed with is daughter. This intruder did not, apparently, respond to his commands to leave. He then allegedly reached out for something. What was the Dad supposed to do? Wait and see if it was a gun or not? In that timeframe, he or his daughter would likely be dead. It's a tragedy that a kid is dead, but ultimately it seems to have been an understandable reaction to a very bizarre, scary situation. |
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Post by Andrew is Good on Mar 14, 2014 12:44:29 GMT -5
Yeah, gun wielding maniacs aren't the problem, it's 16 year old scared girls. A person defending his home from a mysterious stranger in bed with his daughter, possibly raping her, is not a gun wielding maniac. Seriously. It's hyperbole to describe somebody who had to make a very difficult, traumatic decision as a gun wielding maniac. I think he did the right thing in the situation, knowing what he apparently knew at the time. Diagreeing with what he did is fine. I can see the problematic parts of his actions as well. At the same time, though... What is the benefit of referring to him as a gun wielding maniac? It's obvious that his actions weren't in cold blood. It's also obvious his actions weren't the actions of somebody who was unhinged or crazy. It was the apparent actions of a man who was trying to protect his daughter. Granted, more -could- come out that changes this perspective entirely, but it hasn't as of yet. So he reached for something because he's afraid he's going to get shot. And I'm not even sure how the "I don't know this person" if he's in her bed. And why would the girl say that in the first place. So I'm gonna guess that this guy probably wasn't the coolest head on the block. If you're daughter has to lie about that, maybe this guy isn't winning father of the year. And this is going to offend sadly. One reason this blows my mind is I live in a different culture and society where I've actually never seen a gun before in real life. So I see people defend these actions and I'm like, what the hell am I reading. |
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Post by The Last Hero on Mar 14, 2014 12:54:55 GMT -5
Good to see shoot to kill because the other guy could have a gun is still going strong and never going away. Now several people are going to have to live with the responsibility of a dead 17 year old. In a possible life-or-death crisis situation you simply don't always have the luxury of asking a person who may be trying to kill you or somebody you love, "Pardon me Sir, but do you perhaps have a hidden weapon in or around your person." Sometimes you do. As I've said before, I was in a situation where a stranger was in my home several months ago. He just walked into my house at about 1 AM and was seemingly disoriented. Luckily, I was awake at that hour and the lights were on. I was able to appraise the situation and reason with an older man who was clearly confused and disoriented--I didn't have to go get one of my guns. That's a blessing. If you change just a few variables to the situation, then everything changes. We live in the middle of nowhere. It's about 30 to 45 minutes to get any kind of police or medical help. If I had been asleep when he came in and all the lights had been off in the house, then the situation probably would have ended very differently. It would have been a logical response as well. Protecting your home, your family, and your life is your paramount responsibility and you simply cannot afford to assume that other people will do it for you. This guy was in his own home. It was about 2 AM. He was told that there was a strange man in bed with is daughter. This intruder did not, apparently, respond to his commands to leave. He then allegedly reached out for something. What was the Dad supposed to do? Wait and see if it was a gun or not? In that timeframe, he or his daughter would likely be dead. It's a tragedy that a kid is dead, but ultimately it seems to have been an understandable reaction to a very bizarre, scary situation. I was more referring to the mentality we have in this country where everyone thinks they have to defend themselves with deadly force no matter what. It's the mentality that if you have a gun on you, that you automatically have to shoot and kill the person "opposing" you because they might also have a gun and could pull it out with any "sudden" movement. I'm not saying people shouldn't have guns to defend themselves or their home. I'm not saying that you shouldn't defend your home from violent intruders. Just that the mentality can get innocent people killed in uncommon situations like this one. We don't even have all of the facts, were the lights on? DId the father come into the room with his gun drawn? Was the 17 year old still in the bed or was he standing? How long was the confrontation? etc, etc. I can't drawn a complete conclusion until I know more anyway. Also: Maybe now you keep your door locked at 1 am?  |
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Mar 14, 2014 12:55:08 GMT -5
A person defending his home from a mysterious stranger in bed with his daughter, possibly raping her, is not a gun wielding maniac. Seriously. It's hyperbole to describe somebody who had to make a very difficult, traumatic decision as a gun wielding maniac. I think he did the right thing in the situation, knowing what he apparently knew at the time. Diagreeing with what he did is fine. I can see the problematic parts of his actions as well. At the same time, though... What is the benefit of referring to him as a gun wielding maniac? It's obvious that his actions weren't in cold blood. It's also obvious his actions weren't the actions of somebody who was unhinged or crazy. It was the apparent actions of a man who was trying to protect his daughter. Granted, more -could- come out that changes this perspective entirely, but it hasn't as of yet. So he reached for something because he's afraid he's going to get shot. And I'm not even sure how the "I don't know this person" if he's in her bed. And why would the girl say that in the first place. So I'm gonna guess that this guy probably wasn't the coolest head on the block. If you're daughter has to lie about that, maybe this guy isn't winning father of the year. And this is going to offend sadly. One reason this blows my mind is I live in a different culture and society where I've actually never seen a gun before in real life. So I see people defend these actions and I'm like, what the hell am I reading. General rule of thumb, if a stranger is pointing a gun at you, don't make any sudden movements because you have no idea how the will react. Also, don't you live in Alberta? (I'm on my phone so can't actually see location right now) I'm shocked you've never seen a firearm before |
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Post by Andrew is Good on Mar 14, 2014 12:58:12 GMT -5
I work in Alberta but I live in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. There is some hunting but I've never seen a real life gun before, even with living in Fort McMurray. I guess I saw a gun in a cop's holster, but that could have also been a taser.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Mar 14, 2014 13:08:43 GMT -5
I work in Alberta but I live in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. There is some hunting but I've never seen a real life gun before, even with living in Fort McMurray. I guess I saw a gun in a cop's holster, but that could have also been a taser. I guess that makes sense then, as I just took it for granted you grew up in AB. I don't necessarily agree with shooting the guy, but I understand why he did it. And really, if you're living in the US you have to be diligent about the fact that the guy pointing the gun probably isn't making an idle threat. With all the talk of castle law, and stand your ground law over the past couple years you have to be aware of the fact that he's likely going to pull the trigger because he's likely in the legal right. Hell, I live in Manitoba and if someone shoots me while I rob his house he'll likely do more time then I do, I'd still be taking shit very seriously if someone had a firearm pointed at me. It's definitely a situation where all 3 parties f***ed up |
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 14, 2014 13:15:17 GMT -5
A person defending his home from a mysterious stranger in bed with his daughter, possibly raping her, is not a gun wielding maniac. Seriously. It's hyperbole to describe somebody who had to make a very difficult, traumatic decision as a gun wielding maniac. I think he did the right thing in the situation, knowing what he apparently knew at the time. Diagreeing with what he did is fine. I can see the problematic parts of his actions as well. At the same time, though... What is the benefit of referring to him as a gun wielding maniac? It's obvious that his actions weren't in cold blood. It's also obvious his actions weren't the actions of somebody who was unhinged or crazy. It was the apparent actions of a man who was trying to protect his daughter. Granted, more -could- come out that changes this perspective entirely, but it hasn't as of yet. So he reached for something because he's afraid he's going to get shot. And I'm not even sure how the "I don't know this person" if he's in her bed. And why would the girl say that in the first place. So I'm gonna guess that this guy probably wasn't the coolest head on the block. If you're daughter has to lie about that, maybe this guy isn't winning father of the year. And this is going to offend sadly. One reason this blows my mind is I live in a different culture and society where I've actually never seen a gun before in real life. So I see people defend these actions and I'm like, what the hell am I reading. It doesn't offend. It's a difference of culture. Perhaps if you'd been around guns more you wouldn't feel describe somebody who allegedly used a gun in the defense of his own home as a "gun wielding maniac". It's somewhat mind-boggling. You're rationalizing why this guy must be totally crazy to have a gun and use it in self-defense. You're essentially assuming that he was just waiting for somebody to come into his house so he could shoot them. I mean, it's fair for you to argue that point. I just don't agree with it at all and I think it's an unfair viewpoint. Very little of the (scant) evidence we have now seems to point to him making a malicious, crazy decision. He made a very logical one and it's a decision that nobody wants to have to make. It ended up being a mistake, but it's one that I don't understand how you can blame him. (Unless more info comes out--I'm merely discussing the apparent facts at the moment. Things could change and everybody should reserve final judgment) And a person can just break into somebody's house and get into somebody's bed. It happens. There are people, crazy and sane, in the world who just walk into people's houses and make themselves at home. I've had it happen twice in my life. I've mentioned the one and the other happened when I was very young. A man walked into the living room where my younger sisters had fell asleep watching TV. He sat down on the sofa and started watching television. My Dad had to hold him at gun-point until the police arrived. He was so drunk and strung-out on drugs that he thought he was in his own home. Of course, it took the police about 45 minutes to arrive. An unfortunate side-effect of living in the country. This is one of the primary reasons why your home is your castle and you have the right to defend it with deadly force. You can't always wait on somebody else to save your life. |
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
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Posts: 62,166
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Mar 14, 2014 15:22:10 GMT -5
Texas also is a stand your ground law state as well, it does suck that lives are ruined the dad was notified by one of his other kids that they heard a noise so he went to see what the hell was going on and reacted the way he saw fit. He felt that his daughters life was in danger and wanted to defend her its what parents do
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Mar 14, 2014 15:25:33 GMT -5
God bless America and it's attitude that sex is worse than violence. This thread proves it.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
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How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Mar 14, 2014 15:34:03 GMT -5
I done told Yall about locking up my threads, I swear to heyzeus, I will shit on your lawn
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 14, 2014 15:37:16 GMT -5
Texas also is a stand your ground law state as well, it does suck that lives are ruined the dad was notified by one of his other kids that they heard a noise so he went to see what the hell was going on and reacted the way he saw fit. He felt that his daughters life was in danger and wanted to defend her its what parents do This is true, but not really applicable to this situation--as far as my understanding goes anyways. I believe that stand your ground laws are only applicable outside of your home. It's more of a Castle Doctrine issue. In almost every state you're not required to retreat from danger inside your own home. Your home is literally your castle and you're able to use lethal force against an intruder if you're in fear of your life. Stand your ground laws take things a step further. They basically say that your person is also a castle and that you're not required to retreat in order to defend it when you are in reasonable fear of your own life. So they're the same thing, but different. |
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Professor Chaos
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Post by Professor Chaos on Mar 14, 2014 19:38:36 GMT -5
They should put the lying girl in jail as she is ultimately responsible. Can't really blame the father when he's under the impression a guy broke into his house and raped his daughter. Hope they padlock her vagina.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Mar 14, 2014 19:51:47 GMT -5
This was absolutely the girl's fault for lying.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 14, 2014 20:24:09 GMT -5
God bless America and it's attitude that sex is worse than violence. This thread proves it. No one said that, no one was saying the kid deserved to die. People are just saying that, according to the story, the dad is probably assuming that a guy snuck into the home to rape his daughter. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 14, 2014 20:28:36 GMT -5
I'm not gonna say the father was right to do what he did...but I also can't honestly say that if a dude was in my daughter's room and she was insisting that she didn't know him and didn't let him in that I wouldn't merc him if I had the chance.
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