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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 15, 2014 14:52:58 GMT -5
Everyone pointing at Americans being gun happy sure are holding up their end of being equally pigs and stereotyping.
Dude made a hasty decision. Not sure how he's a maniac even if you think he's wrong. He didn't go looking for trouble. It kind of just came to him.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 15, 2014 15:14:09 GMT -5
Good grief at the self righteousness in here. I saw a buncha ten foot tall horses tied up out back and wondered what was up.
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Post by The Trashman on Mar 15, 2014 16:15:04 GMT -5
When you end up killing people it will give them the idea you are a maniac. Must be nice to have such an absolutist view of the world. This guy used a gun to protect his family, so he MUST be a maniac. Who exactly did he protect them from? I guess he is going with the Oscar Pistorius defense.
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Post by KStrick on Mar 15, 2014 19:04:55 GMT -5
Must be nice to have such an absolutist view of the world. This guy used a gun to protect his family, so he MUST be a maniac. Who exactly did he protect them from? I guess he is going with the Oscar Pistorius defense. ... You can't be that extreme. (EDIT: Dense is too strong of a word. I meant "extreme", but I doubt that will translate well on a message board. A homeowner and father is told by a younger child that there's a stranger in the house. He enters his daughter's room to find said stranger and his daughter having sex (implied, but can easily be assumed since the police feel that after learning the kid had no weapons, he was "probably reaching for his pants"). Daughter says she doesn't know who he is. He tells him to leave, which starts an argument. The father shoots the kid. You act as if this were premeditated or if the father is some kind of nutjob just because he was acting in the defense of his family. Not every situation is "hey man has gun, hey man have fun". However, that's not to say the family is innocent. The father doesn't deserve any prison time, but the daughter at the very least should be looking at manslaughter charges.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Mar 15, 2014 19:10:13 GMT -5
General rule of thumb, if a stranger is pointing a gun at you, don't make any sudden movements because you have no idea how the will react. Just to clarify: you're not saying that it's the fault of the person who was shot and killed that he was shot and killed, right?
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Mar 15, 2014 19:18:09 GMT -5
General rule of thumb, if a stranger is pointing a gun at you, don't make any sudden movements because you have no idea how the will react. Just to clarify: you're not saying that it's the fault of the person who was shot and killed that he was shot and killed, right? I wouldn't call it victim blaming, It's just a dumb idea to make any sudden movements when a dude has a gun aimed at you right after being thrown under a bus
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Post by The Trashman on Mar 15, 2014 19:45:58 GMT -5
Who exactly did he protect them from? I guess he is going with the Oscar Pistorius defense. ... You can't be that extreme. (EDIT: Dense is too strong of a word. I meant "extreme", but I doubt that will translate well on a message board. A homeowner and father is told by a younger child that there's a stranger in the house. He enters his daughter's room to find said stranger and his daughter having sex (implied, but can easily be assumed since the police feel that after learning the kid had no weapons, he was "probably reaching for his pants"). Daughter says she doesn't know who he is. He tells him to leave, which starts an argument. The father shoots the kid. You act as if this were premeditated or if the father is some kind of nutjob just because he was acting in the defense of his family. Not every situation is "hey man has gun, hey man have fun". However, that's not to say the family is innocent. The father doesn't deserve any prison time, but the daughter at the very least should be looking at manslaughter charges. Again thats assuming that the father didnt make up this story after just shooting the kid. I guess you probably sided with George Zimmerman too. Its absurd that she would say that she didnt know the guy that was screwing her. With 45 minutes before the cops got there I'm guessing that daddy told her he would go to jail and she needed to tell the police this. Then eventually she couldnt keep up her lie anymore.
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Post by psychokiller on Mar 15, 2014 20:08:39 GMT -5
If everything in the report is true, the daughter is the one to blame the most for this. If she didn't lie & didn't sneak the kid in the house in the first place, this wouldn't have happened.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Mar 15, 2014 20:18:50 GMT -5
... You can't be that extreme. (EDIT: Dense is too strong of a word. I meant "extreme", but I doubt that will translate well on a message board. A homeowner and father is told by a younger child that there's a stranger in the house. He enters his daughter's room to find said stranger and his daughter having sex (implied, but can easily be assumed since the police feel that after learning the kid had no weapons, he was "probably reaching for his pants"). Daughter says she doesn't know who he is. He tells him to leave, which starts an argument. The father shoots the kid. You act as if this were premeditated or if the father is some kind of nutjob just because he was acting in the defense of his family. Not every situation is "hey man has gun, hey man have fun". However, that's not to say the family is innocent. The father doesn't deserve any prison time, but the daughter at the very least should be looking at manslaughter charges. Again thats assuming that the father didnt make up this story after just shooting the kid. I guess you probably sided with George Zimmerman too. Its absurd that she would say that she didnt know the guy that was screwing her. With 45 minutes before the cops got there I'm guessing that daddy told her he would go to jail and she needed to tell the police this. Then eventually she couldnt keep up her lie anymore. Or maybe the story is true and the absurd condemnation of a man defending his family based on absolutely nothing holds less water than a colander. Quit it with the Zimmerman and Pistorius crap, it has nothing to do with this other than you trying to bait people into an argument that has no place here.
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BK From WV
Hank Scorpio
Claims to have sense of humor, probably stole it
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Post by BK From WV on Mar 15, 2014 20:21:08 GMT -5
... You can't be that extreme. (EDIT: Dense is too strong of a word. I meant "extreme", but I doubt that will translate well on a message board. A homeowner and father is told by a younger child that there's a stranger in the house. He enters his daughter's room to find said stranger and his daughter having sex (implied, but can easily be assumed since the police feel that after learning the kid had no weapons, he was "probably reaching for his pants"). Daughter says she doesn't know who he is. He tells him to leave, which starts an argument. The father shoots the kid. You act as if this were premeditated or if the father is some kind of nutjob just because he was acting in the defense of his family. Not every situation is "hey man has gun, hey man have fun". However, that's not to say the family is innocent. The father doesn't deserve any prison time, but the daughter at the very least should be looking at manslaughter charges. Again thats assuming that the father didnt make up this story after just shooting the kid. I guess you probably sided with George Zimmerman too. Its absurd that she would say that she didnt know the guy that was screwing her. With 45 minutes before the cops got there I'm guessing that daddy told her he would go to jail and she needed to tell the police this. Then eventually she couldnt keep up her lie anymore. Let me start by stating that I don't own a gun and I never will. I hate them. That being said, I can't blame the father at all. You seem to be jumping to conclusions that this was all a story made up by the father but there is no proof of that. You seem to have already made your mind up that it's all made up despite what is presented. Not everyone who owns a gun is some lunatic looking to shoot someone. In this case, with the facts that are presented to us, I can't fault the father for wanting to protect his children. If it comes out at a later time that the father shot the boy for no reason, then obviously he would need to go to jail. However, there is no proof of this at the moment. Plus, I doubt it took the police 45 minutes to get there as you stated. They live in or around Houston so I'm sure it wouldn't take that long for them to show up. I live in the middle of nowhere and there have been a couple of car accidents by my house and the police are here in less than 30 minutes. In a big city like Houston, the time should be considerably less.
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Post by Piccolo on Mar 15, 2014 21:05:23 GMT -5
Sounds like a very heat of the moment thing. In the heat of the moment, the daughter, caught in the act of something that girls are still extremely stigmatized for, lied. In the heat of the moment, the boy who had snuck into her parents' house without their permission to screw their teenage daughter reached for something even with a gun pointed at him. In the heat of the moment the father, seeing a stranger reaching for something even though he was at gunpoint, figured he was about to do something violent and fired his weapon.
It's a sad situation all around. Should the dad have shot him? No. Should the daughter have told the truth? Yes. Should the boy have snuck into another person's house and then disobeyed the homeowner with the gun? No. It's messy and sad, but no one's a psycho here. Everyone did something wrong, and everyone was understandable, too. It wasn't unavoidable, though, because not EVERY part of it was done in the heat of the moment. The sneaking in took some planning. So for kids hoping to avoid similar fates, have sex with people who you've gone on dates with before where you picked them up from their home and met their parents. That way, the parent will recognize you instead of thinking you're a potentially-armed home intruder when they catch you in their daughter's room in the middle of the night.
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Post by YaakovLee on Mar 15, 2014 21:15:49 GMT -5
It's awful that this girl lied like that. Just own up to being sexually active. I doubt the situation would have escalated without her lie. I bet she'd rather be grounded than the reason her boyfriend is dead.
I blame her more than the father to be honest.
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Post by The Trashman on Mar 15, 2014 21:54:37 GMT -5
Again thats assuming that the father didnt make up this story after just shooting the kid. I guess you probably sided with George Zimmerman too. Its absurd that she would say that she didnt know the guy that was screwing her. With 45 minutes before the cops got there I'm guessing that daddy told her he would go to jail and she needed to tell the police this. Then eventually she couldnt keep up her lie anymore. Or maybe the story is true and the absurd condemnation of a man defending his family based on absolutely nothing holds less water than a colander. Quit it with the Zimmerman and Pistorius crap, it has nothing to do with this other than you trying to bait people into an argument that has no place here. What a world we live in where shooting a teenage boy with his pants down is defending your family.
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Post by Piccolo on Mar 15, 2014 21:59:46 GMT -5
Or maybe the story is true and the absurd condemnation of a man defending his family based on absolutely nothing holds less water than a colander. Quit it with the Zimmerman and Pistorius crap, it has nothing to do with this other than you trying to bait people into an argument that has no place here. What a world we live in where shooting a teenage boy with his pants down is defending your family. What a world we live in where some use what's between their legs as a weapon when their pants are down. And yet some do. If the father thought this was a stranger breaking into his house and raping his daughter, he has no obligation to wait for him to put his pants back on. So it's disingenuous to pretend like "pants down" is a sign of harmlessness. It's not. A stranger in your house with his pants down is just as threatening as one with his pants on, just in a different way.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Mar 15, 2014 22:03:07 GMT -5
Or maybe the story is true and the absurd condemnation of a man defending his family based on absolutely nothing holds less water than a colander. Quit it with the Zimmerman and Pistorius crap, it has nothing to do with this other than you trying to bait people into an argument that has no place here. What a world we live in where shooting a teenage boy with his pants down is defending your family. When you believe the teen with his pants down is raping your daughter, yeah that is defending your family. Daughter = Family. Rape = Bad. Stoping Daughter's Believed Rape = Defending your family So unless you have some insight that isn't included in the story known so far that doesn't involve making shit up or using cases that have bearing on this one, there is not much more that can be said, IMO.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 15, 2014 22:05:55 GMT -5
Again thats assuming that the father didnt make up this story after just shooting the kid. I guess you probably sided with George Zimmerman too. Its absurd that she would say that she didnt know the guy that was screwing her. With 45 minutes before the cops got there I'm guessing that daddy told her he would go to jail and she needed to tell the police this. Then eventually she couldnt keep up her lie anymore. People tell absurd lies all the time in bad situations, I saw a lot of that when I worked as a crime reporter. Add that to the fact that she was a teenager who just got caught by her dad in bed with a guy, it's not that unrealistic. Teenage brains aren't fully matured, and the part that matures last happens to involve reasoning. We're not talking about people at the height of rational thought here, we're talking horny teenagers in a panic. You can't really assume that she didn't tell him that, and from my experience, assuming anyone involved in an extremely high stress situation is going to act rationally is just inviting failure. Unless more information comes out, there's just no basis to assume that it's impossible for the events in the story to occur the way they said. This isn't the Zimmerman case, there's no similarity in how these two cases played out.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 15, 2014 22:39:48 GMT -5
Shoot first and ask questions rarely.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Mar 15, 2014 23:44:47 GMT -5
Shoot first and ask questions rarely. But he did ask questions.....which lead to him believing the stranger a threat to his daughter. The Father is no mind reader so in the heat of the moment he can't know what was truly happening.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Mar 16, 2014 0:56:13 GMT -5
The dad did the right thing. If you feel there's a threat to you or your family, blow the other person clean away and deal with the pieces afterwards.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Mar 16, 2014 1:51:44 GMT -5
IF we were talking an armed robbery or something of that nature, I'd agree. But this goes well above and beyond a typical case, this is a dad who has reason to believe he just caught someone in the act of raping his daughter. If you put this exact situation outside the US, the boy isn't going to be shot, but he's probably going to be stabbed or have his head bashed in. Is he? Guns are kind of a one and done deal. A potential instant kill shot from a distance that in most ways separates you from the person you're killing. A knife or bat is a close quarter weapon that requires multiple blows or jabs to utilize mortally. It's something you directly deliver first hand, and therein perhaps have the presence of mind to maybe stop after knocking the boy out or simply wounding him to save your daughter. There's more room for rationalization and realization in those defense measures. The gun in all likelihood has eliminated all potential second guessing and rationale in that moment you squeeze the trigger by the very damage it causes. That said, within the current gun culture of the U.S., I understand the reasoning WHY someone would see this as logical defense. When you live in a climate wherein you absolutely have no idea if you yourself will be shot, or your child, you shoot first; you kill or be killed. But my point was the fallacy that potentially making handguns illegal gives criminals an undisputed advantage. Because in other cultures outside the U.S. wherein gun control is common place this is not at all the case. And crime rates are lower, and accidental shootings are virtually nonexistent.
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