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Post by machomuta on Mar 14, 2014 20:43:53 GMT -5
Things like this only happens in the trigger-happy USA.
In Europe the father would have kick his ass and thrown him out.
He didnt need to kill him at all.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Mar 14, 2014 21:09:49 GMT -5
Things like this only happens in the trigger-happy USA. In Europe the father would have kick his ass and thrown him out. He didnt need to kill him at all. It's easy in hindsight to say it, but when it's the middle of the night and a guy is in your underage daughter's bed who your daughter told you is a stranger, didn't do what you commanded and reach for something, I think it's okay for the father to assume this stranger isn't an upstanding young man and felt at that time his family was in danger. If all the details are true, I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. Everybody is the righteous hero in hindsight.
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Post by KStrick on Mar 14, 2014 23:49:26 GMT -5
Things like this only happens in the trigger-happy USA. In Europe the father would have kick his ass and thrown him out. He didnt need to kill him at all. Yay. Stereotyping is fun!
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 14, 2014 23:51:49 GMT -5
Things like this only happens in the trigger-happy USA. In Europe the father would have kick his ass and thrown him out. He didnt need to kill him at all. You're like a mid-90s WWF heel.
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Post by Danimal on Mar 15, 2014 0:13:04 GMT -5
They should put the lying girl in jail as she is ultimately responsible. Can't really blame the father when he's under the impression a guy broke into his house and raped his daughter. Hope they padlock her vagina. Ya, this all gets down to her sneaking a guy into her room and then completely selling him out by letting her armed dad think the kid was a rapist. As far as whether the shooting was warranted there is no way for us to know because we weren't there. Maybe he made a move where it legit looked like he could be going for a weapon, maybe that's BS and the dad just wanted to cap the kid. But he obviously wasn't getting any benefit of the doubt because the daughter let the dad think the kid broke in the house to get at his little girl.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Mar 15, 2014 1:59:11 GMT -5
So he reached for something because he's afraid he's going to get shot. And I'm not even sure how the "I don't know this person" if he's in her bed. And why would the girl say that in the first place. So I'm gonna guess that this guy probably wasn't the coolest head on the block. If you're daughter has to lie about that, maybe this guy isn't winning father of the year. And this is going to offend sadly. One reason this blows my mind is I live in a different culture and society where I've actually never seen a gun before in real life. So I see people defend these actions and I'm like, what the hell am I reading. It doesn't offend. It's a difference of culture. Perhaps if you'd been around guns more you wouldn't feel describe somebody who allegedly used a gun in the defense of his own home as a "gun wielding maniac". It's somewhat mind-boggling. You're rationalizing why this guy must be totally crazy to have a gun and use it in self-defense. It's a common thought in countries outside the U.S. with stringent gun laws because there aren't nearly as much gun violence, fatalities or accidents (whether via criminal or defender) in said countries. The gun mortality rate in the U.S. is staggering and mind boggling to those in these countries who cannot fathom the U.S. not seeing the direct correlation between guns being so prevalent and available and these absurd numbers. Most pro-gun Americans say that if they had their guns taken away, how would they defend themselves? While the rest of the world asks: "we have no guns, yet why are our crime rates, accident rates, and fatalities so miniscule compared to yours?" It begs the logical question of whether it's a chicken or egg conundrum.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 15, 2014 2:52:08 GMT -5
If he was there consensually, both the father and daughter should be tried for manslaughter.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Mar 15, 2014 2:56:28 GMT -5
It doesn't offend. It's a difference of culture. Perhaps if you'd been around guns more you wouldn't feel describe somebody who allegedly used a gun in the defense of his own home as a "gun wielding maniac". It's somewhat mind-boggling. You're rationalizing why this guy must be totally crazy to have a gun and use it in self-defense. It's a common thought in countries outside the U.S. with stringent gun laws because there aren't nearly as much gun violence, fatalities or accidents (whether via criminal or defender) in said countries. The gun mortality rate in the U.S. is staggering and mind boggling to those in these countries who cannot fathom the U.S. not seeing the direct correlation between guns being so prevalent and available and these absurd numbers. Most pro-gun Americans say that if they had their guns taken away, how would they defend themselves? While the rest of the world asks: "we have no guns, yet why are our crime rates, accident rates, and fatalities so miniscule compared to yours?" It begs the logical question of whether it's a chicken or egg conundrum. That would assume crime (or more specifically murder) is an entirely gun related factor, and there aren't numerous factors related to it.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Mar 15, 2014 8:02:51 GMT -5
Things like this only happens in the trigger-happy USA. In Europe the father would have kick his ass and thrown him out. He didnt need to kill him at all. It's easy in hindsight to say it, but when it's the middle of the night and a guy is in your underage daughter's bed who your daughter told you is a stranger, didn't do what you commanded and reach for something, I think it's okay for the father to assume this stranger isn't an upstanding young man and felt at that time his family was in danger. If all the details are true, I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. Everybody is the righteous hero in hindsight. But if they were somewhere where the threat of the kid having a gun is virtually nonexistent then the likelihood of the dad running in armed is less likely. So he's definitely got a point, however given the availability of easily concealable guns in the US the dad reacted in a very reasonable way for the situation he was in. You have to remember, gun culture is a very foreign concept to a lot of countries. Australia had one mass shooting and literally banned guns after words. Canada tightened up the gun laws big time after 1 mass university shooting. Someone shoots up a campus in the US and people feel the right response is to start arming more people. That is a very, very strange idea to a lot of people
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 15, 2014 10:47:22 GMT -5
Personally I blame the girl. Firstly by bringing the boy into her house, her room and her bed, then literally leaving him for dead.
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BRV
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Post by BRV on Mar 15, 2014 11:48:09 GMT -5
A father is notified around 2 a.m. by one of his children that there is a stranger in his daughter's bedroom. He confronts the stranger, whom the daughter said she has no knowledge of, and he demands the stranger leave. A confrontation ensues, the stranger refuses to leave and reaches for something.
While we'd all love to say that we'd have the wherewithal in that situation to calmly and rationally resolve the issue, it's just simply not true. The man was protecting his daughter from a person who he had every right to believe was a threat.
There's a lot of blame to go around in this one, but the man was doing his paternal duties and protecting his family, most notably his 16 year-old daughter, from a stranger at 2 in the morning. It's unfortunate that a life was lost, but in the heat of the moment, it's a man protecting his home and his family, which he has every right to do.
And I totally disagree with the "he should have just kicked his ass and thrown him out of the house" notion. First, it's clear that the stranger outright refused to leave, and second, who's to say that had they engaged in a fistfight that the father would have won? For all he knew, he would have gotten beaten up, and he's the last line of defense in protecting his family from an intruder.
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Post by The Trashman on Mar 15, 2014 11:50:16 GMT -5
I hope they lock this maniac up. Has anybody stopped to think her dad made her tell the cops that she didnt know him at first and then eventually she couldnt keep up the lie? Sounds like a cover story to me so he can get away with being a loose cannon. Similar to the Zimmerman case we will never get the dead boy's side of this story.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 15, 2014 12:05:34 GMT -5
It doesn't offend. It's a difference of culture. Perhaps if you'd been around guns more you wouldn't feel describe somebody who allegedly used a gun in the defense of his own home as a "gun wielding maniac". It's somewhat mind-boggling. You're rationalizing why this guy must be totally crazy to have a gun and use it in self-defense. It's a common thought in countries outside the U.S. with stringent gun laws because there aren't nearly as much gun violence, fatalities or accidents (whether via criminal or defender) in said countries. The gun mortality rate in the U.S. is staggering and mind boggling to those in these countries who cannot fathom the U.S. not seeing the direct correlation between guns being so prevalent and available and these absurd numbers. IF we were talking an armed robbery or something of that nature, I'd agree. But this goes well above and beyond a typical case, this is a dad who has reason to believe he just caught someone in the act of raping his daughter. If you put this exact situation outside the US, the boy isn't going to be shot, but he's probably going to be stabbed or have his head bashed in. Trying to turn this into an anti-US violence thing is a touch misplaced in my mind, because this is hardly a normal crime. There are plenty of cases where you can make that argument, I don't think this is one of them. I hope they lock this maniac up. Has anybody stopped to think her dad made her tell the cops that she didnt know him at first and then eventually she couldnt keep up the lie? Sounds like a cover story to me so he can get away with being a loose cannon. Similar to the Zimmerman case we will never get the dead boy's side of this story. Sure, people have thought about it, I did, but there's not much point in going off the assumption that the guy is a homocidal maniac waiting for an excuse. If you want to prejudice yourself against the dad, you'll find a reason. The idea that a teenager would lie to her dad to try to stop herself from getting in trouble is, at the very least, as believable. As far as keeping the lie up, I don't see any indication in the story that her story changed.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Mar 15, 2014 12:08:13 GMT -5
I hope they lock this maniac up. Has anybody stopped to think her dad made her tell the cops that she didnt know him at first and then eventually she couldnt keep up the lie? Sounds like a cover story to me so he can get away with being a loose cannon. Similar to the Zimmerman case we will never get the dead boy's side of this story. Everybody is working off of the story presented. If the details change, so will peoples perspective.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Mar 15, 2014 12:15:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately we in the US do not live in a gun free society therefore the father has to expect the worst from this unknown individual in his house. The kid was a dumbass for not following directions when he had a gun pointed at him. It sucks that guns are so prevalent here in the states, but since that is common knowledge he should have known that his ass could get shot for being in someone else's house unwanted.
Blame society all you want, but the dad was well in his right to defend his home and he acted accordingly.
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khali
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Post by khali on Mar 15, 2014 12:21:49 GMT -5
A lot of people are letting the father off pretty easy, while condemning the girl very harshly. This is not a black and white issue here. There's a lot of grey area. All we know is that the daughter said she didn't know who he was. That doesn't even mean she was throwing the guy under the bus. It could have just been as simple as the father asking who he was, or what his name was, and the girl could have just said "I don't know" and that was it.
And why would she have blurted that out? Because she was probably scared shitless. Put yourself in her position. You're getting intimate with someone, and your dad bursts through the door with a gun. I don't know about any of you, but I'd be pretty damn scared and probably wouldn't be speaking in a rational manner. People are saying the father couldn't be counted on to behave rationally in this situation, but guess what? The same can be said for the girl.
This just speaks to a larger problem I have, the rash of cases of people getting unnecessarily shot and killed (or in one local case here, beaten) just because of someone's kneejerk reaction.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 15, 2014 12:37:13 GMT -5
A lot of people are letting the father off pretty easy, while condemning the girl very harshly. This is not a black and white issue here. There's a lot of grey area. All we know is that the daughter said she didn't know who he was. That doesn't even mean she was throwing the guy under the bus. It could have just been as simple as the father asking who he was, or what his name was, and the girl could have just said "I don't know" and that was it. And why would she have blurted that out? Because she was probably scared shitless. Put yourself in her position. You're getting intimate with someone, and your dad bursts through the door with a gun. I don't know about any of you, but I'd be pretty damn scared and probably wouldn't be speaking in a rational manner. People are saying the father couldn't be counted on to behave rationally in this situation, but guess what? The same can be said for the girl. This just speaks to a larger problem I have, the rash of cases of people getting unnecessarily shot and killed (or in one local case here, beaten) just because of someone's kneejerk reaction. Kids and teens lie to avoid getting in trouble all the time, I don't think anyone is surprised by that, but that can't really absolve them of blame when their lies have serious consequences. The father can't really run in assuming that his daughter would lie to him in a serious situation, and if she had been telling the truth? I don't know if anyone would against him if he had been a stranger who snuck into an underage girl's bed. There was a story a few years back where that exact thing happened (a father caught a man raping his daughter and killed him), and I don't recall anyone speaking out against him. It's unfortunate, but we don't have the ability to rewind time. You have to take what happens in the context of what happens, and in the dad's case, he had more reason to believe this was a guy who had attempted to hurt his daughter than he did not to. Obviously more information can come out, but we can't judge him based on our hindsight superior information days later. So I don't think it's letting him off easy as much as trying to put such a horrible situation into the context of the moment. The fact is, I don't think anyone acted truly rationally.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Mar 15, 2014 13:04:26 GMT -5
I hope they lock this maniac up. As I more-or-less said in a previous post to a similar comment--what's the benefit of labeling this guy a maniac? Based on what we know now--and of course, things could change--nothing he did makes him out to be a maniac. Of course it's -possible- that he shot the kid for no reason and is an evil mastermind who is bullying his family into giving him an alibi. It's also unlikely. We're supposed to assume that he was just a "loose cannon" waiting for the right situation to shoot somebody in his daughter's bedroom? It's a touch far-fetched. We should assume the man's innocence before we jump to the conclusion that he's a murderous psychopath--especially when little is known about the events thus far and what is known paints him in a very different light.
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Post by The Trashman on Mar 15, 2014 13:38:49 GMT -5
I hope they lock this maniac up. As I more-or-less said in a previous post to a similar comment--what's the benefit of labeling this guy a maniac? Based on what we know now--and of course, things could change--nothing he did makes him out to be a maniac. Of course it's -possible- that he shot the kid for no reason and is an evil mastermind who is bullying his family into giving him an alibi. It's also unlikely. We're supposed to assume that he was just a "loose cannon" waiting for the right situation to shoot somebody in his daughter's bedroom? It's a touch far-fetched. We should assume the man's innocence before we jump to the conclusion that he's a murderous psychopath--especially when little is known about the events thus far and what is known paints him in a very different light. When you end up killing people it will give them the idea you are a maniac.
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Post by KStrick on Mar 15, 2014 13:49:08 GMT -5
As I more-or-less said in a previous post to a similar comment--what's the benefit of labeling this guy a maniac? Based on what we know now--and of course, things could change--nothing he did makes him out to be a maniac. Of course it's -possible- that he shot the kid for no reason and is an evil mastermind who is bullying his family into giving him an alibi. It's also unlikely. We're supposed to assume that he was just a "loose cannon" waiting for the right situation to shoot somebody in his daughter's bedroom? It's a touch far-fetched. We should assume the man's innocence before we jump to the conclusion that he's a murderous psychopath--especially when little is known about the events thus far and what is known paints him in a very different light. When you end up killing people it will give them the idea you are a maniac. Must be nice to have such an absolutist view of the world. This guy used a gun to protect his family, so he MUST be a maniac.
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