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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 18, 2014 13:10:48 GMT -5
"CATCH_US You can suck my balls!!!"
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 18, 2014 13:26:11 GMT -5
Enjoyment is subjective. However if someone's viewpoint is that Cena is an inconsistent character whose promo material often goes against basic storytelling logic, they'd be correct, because it's been backed up with evidence time and time again.
It's really not exclusively a children's show, but even if it was that doesn't mean that it therefore requires no consistency and internal logic.
"It's just a show" is no excuse for shitty writing.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Apr 18, 2014 13:28:34 GMT -5
In the swerviest of swerves, Cena takes out Clash with a chair and joins the IWC.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 18, 2014 13:34:01 GMT -5
No, because income levels have nothing to do with the criticism aimed at him, and in no way address its validity, and I don't understand why anyone would actually want him to say such a thing. Because some people are so far up their own ass with how much their viewpoint is better than what WWE puts out and insist that because they don't enjoy Cena, who isn't presented 100% continuity and logic based, nobody else does either. I'm not saying him joking about those types ofinternet fans will endear him to the paying audience, but it's always kind of funny seeing elitist fans of all mediums be humbled down some pegs to remind them it's a children's television show that's not meant to be taken seriously. Seriously, if he quoted MST3K and said "just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax." That would be legendary. Their largest viewing demographic are men ages 35-38.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 18, 2014 13:34:06 GMT -5
In the swerviest of swerves, Cena takes out Clash with a chair and joins the IWC. He then turns heel, starts referencing MLP and uses 75% more 'thigh slappable' offense.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 13:37:31 GMT -5
Enjoyment is subjective. However if someone's viewpoint is that Cena is an inconsistent character whose promo material often goes against basic storytelling logic, they'd be correct, because it's been backed up with evidence time and time again. It's really not exclusively a children's show, but even if it was that doesn't mean that it therefore requires no consistency and internal logic. "It's just a show" is no excuse for shitty writing. "It's just a show" is a cue to not take it seriously. Entertainment is subjective. Outside of Mrjl, I haven't seen anybody try to argue that pro wrestling is logical and able to be backed using facts. But it's just as as easy to prove with demographics and ads during commercials who their audience is and it's plain to see that the "highbrow" demographic doesn't tune into see guys in their undies settle scores in front of 36 year old man children in NWO shirts and a classic WWF title over their shoulder. At its core, wrestling originated as a carny act. At the end of the day, it's about getting people to buy into the illusion that what they're watching play out is real. And for those that know it isn't, good for them. Hopefully it's fun. But I can tell the people who are displeased 80% of the time who spend a great portion of time posting on internet message boards with short "add-nothing" comments such as "awful. They usually are." Those people are in the great great great vocal minority. Take the "Cena isn't written logically" argument to a typical WWE fan and they'll smile politely, maybe giggle and ask which Ultimate Warrior died last week, the first one or second one. They'll probably also ask if you go to 411Mania, too. I hear Sting might challenge Undertaker at next year's Wrestlemania. It's wrestling. It's fun. If the Coen brothers start a promotion, link me to it..I'll sit front row.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 13:37:43 GMT -5
In the swerviest of swerves, Cena takes out Clash with a chair and joins the IWC. This.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 13:39:33 GMT -5
Because some people are so far up their own ass with how much their viewpoint is better than what WWE puts out and insist that because they don't enjoy Cena, who isn't presented 100% continuity and logic based, nobody else does either. I'm not saying him joking about those types ofinternet fans will endear him to the paying audience, but it's always kind of funny seeing elitist fans of all mediums be humbled down some pegs to remind them it's a children's television show that's not meant to be taken seriously. Seriously, if he quoted MST3K and said "just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax." That would be legendary. Their largest viewing demographic are men ages 35-38. Yet most of their commercials are for children's toys, Scooby Doo and Dominos pizza. Their viewership doesn't match who they (USA network and WWE) are trying to reach. *edit* TRIPLE POST, oh crap. Haha that's a first.
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Apr 18, 2014 13:50:44 GMT -5
Their largest viewing demographic are men ages 35-38. Yet most of their commercials are for children's toys, Scooby Doo and Dominos pizza. Their viewership doesn't match who they (USA network and WWE) are trying to reach. *edit* TRIPLE POST, oh crap. Haha that's a first. I know what you're saying, but WWE is honestly trying to have their cake and eat it too. And I agree with that approach. I just take umbrage at the dropping of the term "kids show" when the bulk of their money angles are obviously directed at teens and adults. i.e. Backwoods cults with a leader that is an obvious Satan avatar, gang warfare, HHH brutalizing and trying to drown a handcuffed Bryan. The content, by HHH's own hand, seems to be swaying more toward the style of product he grew up on and preferred, as opposed to the intelligence insulting garbage Vince was pushing more during the guest host era.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 18, 2014 13:56:05 GMT -5
There has to be some level of seriousness, even in fictional works. Otherwise the audience can't be invested in the story that drives the product being sold to them.
It is, however when character and story inconsistency is shown to exist, that's not subjective.
That's not what he argues. His posts usually consist of apologism for WWE's poor writing by either 1) substituting their bad booking for his own then expecting WWE to be praised for it for some unknown reason, or 2) logical gymnastics so twisted, convoluted and warped that it forms its own dimension.
No one is arguing that the audience is highbrow. They don't wear undies. They wear wrestling trunks and tights, and I don't see what relevance men, attending wrestling events wearing wrestling-related clothing and carrying wrestling-related merchandise has to the issue at hand.
So? Even carny acts need to sell a certain level of credibility to the customer.
You need to believe you can hook one of those little ducks in order to win a teddy bear. If the carnival operator pulled it off the hook when you captured it and said "lol, what are you complaining about? It's only a duck hooking thing, why so serious???" the customer would be correct to complain.
Not necessarily. They don't have to believe it's real. I know that the shark attacking Amity Island isn't real. But the key is to get the audience to care about the characters and the story. That comes from consistency and internal logic. Chief Brody defeats Jaws by shooting him in the mouth, blowing up a tank of air. He doesn't get on the radio and call for a UFO to shoot it with a death ray. Even though by the "it's just a film!" segment of the audience, there would be nothing wrong with that, I guess.
The argument isn't "does the typical WWE fan think Cena is booked logically?".
The argument is "does Cena claiming he earns more than the audience mean that his character doesn't have consistency issues that justify the criticism from fans that he does receive?"
You don't have to be the Coen brothers to write a consistent and logical work of fiction.
Nor does such a work of fiction have to be less fun.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 14:04:04 GMT -5
Yet most of their commercials are for children's toys, Scooby Doo and Dominos pizza. Their viewership doesn't match who they (USA network and WWE) are trying to reach. *edit* TRIPLE POST, oh crap. Haha that's a first. I know what you're saying, but WWE is honestly trying to have their cake and eat it too. And I agree with that approach. I just take umbrage at the dropping of the term "kids show" when the bulk of their money angles are obviously directed at teens and adults. i.e. Backwoods cults with a leader that is an obvious Satan avatar, gang warfare, HHH brutalizing and trying to drown a handcuffed Bryan. The content, by HHH's own hand, seems to be swaying more toward the style of product he grew up on and preferred, as opposed to the intelligence insulting garbage Vince was pushing more during the guest host era. I totally get what you mean too, sir. Compared to 2010/11, this WWE is much more adult oriented. The reason I bring up commercials and ad revenue is because when USA sells ad time to companies trying to push their product to viewers, they sway for products that only target children, but parents as well. Toy commercials and pizza ads are cool if you're a child, but no 7 year old orders their own pizza. It's the parents. The only way a respectable parent will let their child tune into wrestling is if the product is at least somewhat family friendly. A lot of parents now were once/or still are WWE fans. So to them, having their children grow up on it like they did is acceptable, hence the strategic marketing. But I guarantee they aren't targeting the cynical "Vince killed the business, the writing team sucks and it needs to be my way" fanbase that ultimately will tune in even if RAW was 3 hours of Pip farting on a snare drum, if only to complain about it later using the crappy skit as fuel to prove that they're "right." Sorry for the run-on, but I hope you get my point. The thread topic asked about how awesome it'd be if Cena just stopped what he was doing to address the internet. And outside of the whole breaking kayfabe and giving too much interest to what ultimately isn't worth giving interest to (he'll cry on his bed piled in $100's and Nikki Bella), I think Cena joking about his biggest detractors would be a hoot. He's really never dished out any complaints where the CM Punks of the world openly do. I was at the Raw where Punk called out the fat guy in row 2, it was a classic WWE Moment
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 18, 2014 14:24:10 GMT -5
He'll make lame unfunny jokes about all of us for weeks and then beat us easily in the match, leading to us falling down the card. Are we f***ing going over?
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JTH
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Post by JTH on Apr 18, 2014 14:31:31 GMT -5
I would call out Cena on his horrible RAW skit this past Monday on WWE's Youtube page. But they never seemed to post it... Strange...
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Apr 18, 2014 14:40:05 GMT -5
Enjoyment is subjective. However if someone's viewpoint is that Cena is an inconsistent character whose promo material often goes against basic storytelling logic, they'd be correct, because it's been backed up with evidence time and time again. It's really not exclusively a children's show, but even if it was that doesn't mean that it therefore requires no consistency and internal logic. "It's just a show" is no excuse for shitty writing. "It's just a show" is a cue to not take it seriously. Entertainment is subjective. Outside of Mrjl, I haven't seen anybody try to argue that pro wrestling is logical and able to be backed using facts. I argue pro wrestling is internally logical.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 14:44:41 GMT -5
"It's just a show" is a cue to not take it seriously. Entertainment is subjective. Outside of Mrjl, I haven't seen anybody try to argue that pro wrestling is logical and able to be backed using facts. I argue pro wrestling is internally logical. And I, one day, would love to hear your defenses for it in a PM or something, so as to not get derailed by emotions.
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Apr 18, 2014 15:14:51 GMT -5
HEY! YES, YOU! IWC! SMARKS! I'm calling you out! ALL OF YOU! This is it! I've reached my breaking point and can't take it anymore! This, this a shoot! Oh, you'd better believe it! See, I'm gonna tell you what's been eatin' me for a loooooong time, and it's way past time you heard it! You ready? I said, you ready? Ok, here goes: Thank you. Thank you, for watching the show, buying tickets, merchendice, PPVs and the network. I hope to see you all next time we roll into town. So again, thanks for your support. I'm off!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 18, 2014 15:18:05 GMT -5
And do what? Break kayfabe and defend the writing staff?
All of the criticisms as of late relating to Cena- as evident by this thread- are tied to things he more than likely cannot control. Otherwise, most fans seem to have realized outside of his booking, he is indeed a god.
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metylerca
King Koopa
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Post by metylerca on Apr 18, 2014 15:19:45 GMT -5
And do what? Break kayfabe and defend the writing staff? All of the criticisms as of late relating to Cena- as evident by this thread- are tied to things he more than likely cannot control. Otherwise, most fans seem to have realized outside of his booking, he is indeed a god. And how do we know he isn't?
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Apr 18, 2014 15:27:27 GMT -5
And do what? Break kayfabe and defend the writing staff? All of the criticisms as of late relating to Cena- as evident by this thread- are tied to things he more than likely cannot control. Otherwise, most fans seem to have realized outside of his booking, he is indeed a god. And how do we know he isn't? Because there is only, One. Wrestling. GOD!
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Apr 18, 2014 15:29:20 GMT -5
And how do we know he isn't? Because there is only, One. Wrestling. GOD!
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