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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 16:54:42 GMT -5
Apart from some of his heel work in 1997 I have to say Bret is one of the most overrated of all time Hell apart from his match with Austin at Mania name one amazing Bret Hart match. you can't can you? He really isn't that good. Owen was the more entertaining of the Harts Why yes, I can name tons of amazing Bret Hart matches. Here's just a few off the top of my head: Vs. Perfect at Summerslam Vs. Perfect at King of the Ring Vs. Owen at Mania Vs. Owen at Summerslam Vs, Michaels at Survivor Series (92) Vs. Michaels at Survivor Series (97, people forget it was a great match with a crazy brawl to start) Vs. Michaels at Wrestlemania Vs. Bulldog at Summerslam Vs. Diesel at Royal Rumble Vs. Undertaker at Summerslam Vs. Piper at Wrestlemania The tag match at Canadian Stampede Most matches the Hart Foundation had with the Rougeaus and the British Bulldogs And that's just scratching the surface on great matches he had. You'd have an easier time naming major WWF matches Bret had that weren't good (like his Mania match with Backlund). I understand some people like him less than others, but to say he's only had ONE amazing match is downright absurd. And those are just matches that standout by the standard he set. Bret's average match was better than most guys' best match. The night he had at King of the Ring, wrestling Razor/Perfect/Bigelow for about 50 minutes total, all unique matches with unique finishes, the only guy that could pull that off today is Daniel Bryan. Some of how great he was is lost in translation because the style was different back then, and he didn't do any crazy moves. As for the 97 heel run, he had a great character that generated tons of heat and had a lot of good segments/promos/brawls/etc., but his work really went downhill after he had knee surgery in May that year. His matches after that were pretty much him kicking the other guy in the leg for a half hour, he made it work to an extent but he was far from the Bret of old. He never was the same after that. The Austin match was his last in a 14 year string of great WWF matches.
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Jul 8, 2014 17:38:08 GMT -5
Why yes, I can name tons of amazing Bret Hart matches. Here's just a few off the top of my head: Vs. Perfect at Summerslam Vs. Perfect at King of the Ring Vs. Owen at Mania Vs. Owen at Summerslam Vs, Michaels at Survivor Series (92) Vs. Michaels at Survivor Series (97, people forget it was a great match with a crazy brawl to start) Vs. Michaels at Wrestlemania Vs. Bulldog at Summerslam Vs. Diesel at Royal Rumble Vs. Undertaker at Summerslam Vs. Piper at Wrestlemania The tag match at Canadian Stampede Most matches the Hart Foundation had with the Rougeaus and the British Bulldogs And that's just scratching the surface on great matches he had. You'd have an easier time naming major WWF matches Bret had that weren't good (like his Mania match with Backlund). I understand some people like him less than others, but to say he's only had ONE amazing match is downright absurd. Add Diesel at Survivor Series 1995 I was going to mention this one too. A 4 star match (at least!) out of Kevin f***ing Nash of all people alone disqualifies him from being called "not that good" (and I'm a fan of Nash). He may not have always been the most charismatic or the best talker but he didn't need to be. He had great work and even better psychology. There are not a lot of wrestlers better at selling than Bret. He sold the injury from Owen kicking his leg out from his leg at Rumble 94 all the way to when he won the title at Wrestlemania. That's a guy who knows how to tell a story. I love Owen too and will agree that he was the better of the two on the mic, he really doesn't have anywhere near the number of real classic matches that Bret has despite also being incredible in the ring.
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Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Jul 8, 2014 19:33:16 GMT -5
Bret never drew a dime. Then, Now, Forever.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 8, 2014 19:35:20 GMT -5
That Wembley Summerslam was pretty damn full; and it was built on the Bret/Bulldog match as much as the title bout.
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Jul 8, 2014 19:44:24 GMT -5
He's awesome. I don't see why you'd find a problem with him OP. He's an actual REAL legend unlike the usual Hacksaw/IRS/Slaughter/DiBiase guys they keep bringing back. Hacksaw was a legend Slaughter was a legend Dibiase was a legend. Not so much IRS, though.
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Post by thetower52 on Jul 8, 2014 19:45:27 GMT -5
I cant stand Bret hart
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jul 8, 2014 21:15:48 GMT -5
He's awesome. I don't see why you'd find a problem with him OP. He's an actual REAL legend unlike the usual Hacksaw/IRS/Slaughter/DiBiase guys they keep bringing back. In what way are those guys not "REAL" legends?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 21:17:07 GMT -5
He's awesome. I don't see why you'd find a problem with him OP. He's an actual REAL legend unlike the usual Hacksaw/IRS/Slaughter/DiBiase guys they keep bringing back. Hacksaw was a legend Slaughter was a legend Dibiase was a legend. Not so much IRS, though. IRS was a boat captain though, I think that he edges those guys out.
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phen0m2112
Trap-Jaw
Advocating for the Devil since 1968.
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Post by phen0m2112 on Jul 8, 2014 22:03:43 GMT -5
After the Ultimate Warrior, I wouldn't mind seeing most any wrestling legend at any time on WWE programming. You never know when it will be the last ....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 22:06:30 GMT -5
Hacksaw was a legend Slaughter was a legend Dibiase was a legend. Not so much IRS, though. IRS was a boat captain though, I think that he edges those guys out. Which rank is higher, Captain or Sergeant?
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The Possum
Unicron
JBL stands for "Just Beat a Lizard".
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Post by The Possum on Jul 8, 2014 22:11:13 GMT -5
Bret making an appearance on a lower-key show like NXT might seem less jarring. Even then he seemed a little out of place. Though he was standing close to Flair so that's not really fair. That's not fair to Flair?
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Jul 8, 2014 22:44:35 GMT -5
I guess I'm old enough to actually appreciate the fact that Bret is on WWE TV again - you young'uns apparently weren't around for (or old enough to get) how unfortunate '98-'10 was for guys who enjoyed Bret on WWF TV... Ah well. I am old enough, so I understand! WWE Countdown tonight had him hugging Shawn Michaels, and that still just leaves me awestruck all these years later.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jul 8, 2014 22:57:59 GMT -5
That Wembley Summerslam was pretty damn full; and it was built on the Bret/Bulldog match as much as the title bout. I think Davey Boy deserves more credit for that than Bret considering it was in England. Not saying Bret played no part in that house but let's be honest, those people were there to see Bulldog in that match.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 23:05:17 GMT -5
That Wembley Summerslam was pretty damn full; and it was built on the Bret/Bulldog match as much as the title bout. I think Davey Boy deserves more credit for that than Bret considering it was in England. Not saying Bret played no part in that house but let's be honest, those people were there to see Bulldog in that match. It's the problem with arguing about who's the draw, as Bulldog in most other areas seemed to draw next to nothing (he was a supporting character, not a leading man), whilst Bret did have a huge fanbase in Europe. You can't credit the main event draw to one person unless one person has been a consistent draw in certain markets, as much as Bulldog may well have drawn fans to the event, the fact he was facing Bret gives Bret 50% credit -or 25% if you want to include people wanting to see the world title match participants- for ticket sales in that instance. S'all anecdotal otherwise.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jul 8, 2014 23:11:59 GMT -5
I think Davey Boy deserves more credit for that than Bret considering it was in England. Not saying Bret played no part in that house but let's be honest, those people were there to see Bulldog in that match. It's the problem with arguing about who's the draw, as Bulldog in most other areas seemed to draw next to nothing (he was a supporting character, not a leading man), whilst Bret did have a huge fanbase in Europe. You can't credit the main event draw to one person unless one person has been a consistent draw in certain markets, as much as Bulldog may well have drawn fans to the event, the fact he was facing Bret gives Bret 50% credit -or 25% if you want to include people wanting to see the world title match participants- for ticket sales in that instance. S'all anecdotal otherwise. Like I said, I'm not giving Bret no credit because, as you mentioned, he had a big fanbase in Europe. However, in Wembley, nationalistic fervor was in full swing. You could see and hear that in the reactions. I know it just seems like anecdotal evidence but I don't see how Bulldog was not the main draw in his home country in the main event.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 23:17:32 GMT -5
It's the problem with arguing about who's the draw, as Bulldog in most other areas seemed to draw next to nothing (he was a supporting character, not a leading man), whilst Bret did have a huge fanbase in Europe. You can't credit the main event draw to one person unless one person has been a consistent draw in certain markets, as much as Bulldog may well have drawn fans to the event, the fact he was facing Bret gives Bret 50% credit -or 25% if you want to include people wanting to see the world title match participants- for ticket sales in that instance. S'all anecdotal otherwise. Like I said, I'm not giving Bret no credit because, as you mentioned, he had a big fanbase in Europe. However, in Wembley, nationalistic fervor was in full swing. You could see and hear that in the reactions. I know it just seems like anecdotal evidence but I don't see how you can't say Bulldog was not the main draw in his home country in the main event. Oh I know, but you can't put a hard number to that so it's why most wrestling bookers/fans etc for the biggest selling events place 50% on each participant in main events at huge shows. No one takes the Wrestlemania 17 credit from The Rock just because it happened in Austin's hometown and such.
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Tony Schiavontay
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Jul 8, 2014 23:18:19 GMT -5
IRS was a boat captain though, I think that he edges those guys out. Which rank is higher, Captain or Sergeant? Doesn't matter. He had a boat.
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percymania
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Post by percymania on Jul 8, 2014 23:30:12 GMT -5
I'm just glad to see him alive and doing alright. Years ago I never would have dreamed we would see Bret in WWE again, so I try and cherish every moment.
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Lardlad
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Post by Lardlad on Jul 9, 2014 7:15:05 GMT -5
Bret never drew a dime. Then, Now, Forever. He drew a lot of dimes in Canada, BROTHER.
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RedDevil
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Post by RedDevil on Jul 9, 2014 10:31:06 GMT -5
Any time Bret appears on WWE then I'll tune in. I don't care what type of segment, or who he is with - I'm there.
He was the one that turned me from an casual viewer who watched because everyone was watching in the early 90s, into a die-hard mark that stayed loyal to the WWF despite wrestling becoming unfashionable again in the mid-90s and EVERYBODY giving me shit about watching it. I didn't watch WCW until he went there (though I stayed a WWF man first and foremost, partly since WCW had no idea what they were doing with Bret). But perhaps most impressively his return in 2010 brought me back to following WWE, which was a damn near miracle after swearing-off the whole industry after the events of June 2007.
I'm delighted any time I see him on WWE TV, not least because there are so, so many from that era that we can't see any more.
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