Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
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Posts: 39,288
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Post by Push R Truth on Jul 10, 2014 14:40:12 GMT -5
You know... I'm kinda pissed that they pushed R-Truth aside as a generic wrestler with no gimmick when he was one of the craziest characters they had for quite a while. Then right after that they talk about how Fox at least has a character because she's crazy.
As far as stereotypes, the WWE seems to actually be an equal opportunity offender:
Black: Big Strong Guy, Beer Drinking Ass Kicker, Criminal, Saba Simba/Kamala Asian: Geisha, Funaki's English Dub, Hirohito, has a 50% chance to spit green mist, theme music uses Asian instruments and notes Native Americas: Feathers, Tomahawk, something fur or buffalo related Samoans: Head made of Steel, if overweight must use ass based offense, frequently called wild/savage Caucasian (Non-American): Snobby, won't always speak English, if Irish must be willing to drink/fight at all times. If Russian must be an unstoppable machine. If Female is a smokin' hot chick with a foreign accent more or less playing a James Bond Girl. Caucasian (American): Hillbillies/Hicks, Surfer Dudes, generic Hollywood douche, Rocker/Punk, ProUSA, Real Americans, Motorcycle Guy
I'm not saying that's fine, I'm just saying they seem to dig up stereotypes for about anything.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 10, 2014 14:42:41 GMT -5
You know... I'm kinda pissed that they pushed R-Truth aside as a generic wrestler with no gimmick when he was one of the craziest characters they had for quite a while. Then right after that they talk about how Fox at least has a character because she's crazy. As far as stereotypes, the WWE seems to actually be an equal opportunity offender: Black: Big Strong Guy, Beer Drinking Ass Kicker, Criminal, Saba Simba/Kamala Asian: Geisha, Funaki's English Dub, Hirohito, has a 50% chance to spit green mist, theme music uses Asian instruments and notes Native Americas: Feathers, Tomahawk, something fur or buffalo related Samoans: Head made of Steel, if overweight must use ass based offense, frequently called wild/savage Caucasian (Non-American): Snobby, won't always speak English, if Irish must be willing to drink/fight at all times. If Russian must be an unstoppable machine. If Female is a smokin' hot chick with a foreign accent more or less playing a James Bond Girl. Caucasian (American): Hillbillies/Hicks, Surfer Dudes, generic Hollywood douche, Rocker/Punk, ProUSA, Real Americans, Motorcycle Guy
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 10, 2014 14:43:07 GMT -5
In my opinion, the general fanbase is no better than the WWE in regards to this disturbing ongoing trend. I feel a bit ill every time I see "new Nation" mentioned around these parts, and I know it's not just those here. People just can't seem to conceive of the idea of singular, unique and complex gimmicks for African-Americans other than to just lump them all in one group together and "that" is their gimmick. It's stupid, it's outdated, it's racist and it's lazy. I don't believe in unique or singular things these days. Everything that is worth doing, has been done. Doesn't mean it can't be changed up slightly, but it won't be unique or singular. And complex is a waste of time because everyone misses the point while complaining about a lack of complexity.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on Jul 10, 2014 14:45:19 GMT -5
I have a big issue with this too. Like, the lack of diversity is a problem absolutely worth addressing, but whenever any idiot dismisses The Rock because he's "only half black" or "half Samoan," it shows they are not remotely in any sort of position to be discussing race. Such a woeful display of ignorance. Read it again. They mention him AND qualify his position in the article. He personally identifies as Samoan. But he DOESN'T identify as "not black."
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,288
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Post by Push R Truth on Jul 10, 2014 14:45:20 GMT -5
You know... I'm kinda pissed that they pushed R-Truth aside as a generic wrestler with no gimmick when he was one of the craziest characters they had for quite a while. Then right after that they talk about how Fox at least has a character because she's crazy. As far as stereotypes, the WWE seems to actually be an equal opportunity offender: Black: Big Strong Guy, Beer Drinking Ass Kicker, Criminal, Saba Simba/Kamala Asian: Geisha, Funaki's English Dub, Hirohito, has a 50% chance to spit green mist, theme music uses Asian instruments and notes Native Americas: Feathers, Tomahawk, something fur or buffalo related Samoans: Head made of Steel, if overweight must use ass based offense, frequently called wild/savage Caucasian (Non-American): Snobby, won't always speak English, if Irish must be willing to drink/fight at all times. If Russian must be an unstoppable machine. If Female is a smokin' hot chick with a foreign accent more or less playing a James Bond Girl. Caucasian (American): Hillbillies/Hicks, Surfer Dudes, generic Hollywood douche, Rocker/Punk, ProUSA, Real Americans, Motorcycle Guy And what would that be? I like to be educated and not randomly ridiculed with no explanation.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 10, 2014 14:50:15 GMT -5
Despite the obvious Rock omission, it is really bad in WWE and Rock is almost like the exception to the rule.
It's even talked about before but the infamous Brodus Clay/Xavier Woods feud may've been the worst feud ever and an incredibly racist moment happened where Woods got on the table and started dancing to distract Brodus so Tensai beat him. Tensai gets beaten down by Brodus to which R-Truth and Woods do nothing. After awhile, they finally interfered, and while Tensai was selling on the floor, Truth, Woods, Cameron and Naomi did what black people do best. They danced. And for no reason either.
Like, Xavier Woods I think has really been affected by racism and for not being that big because he's really good. But they brought him in as R-Truth's dancing partner and so much could have been done with him being a mentor and helping get this guy over, but nothing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:51:05 GMT -5
Bigotry and stereotypes?! In pro wrestling?!?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:52:15 GMT -5
And what would that be? I like to be educated and not randomly ridiculed with no explanation. You listed several more gimmicks in the Caucasian section compared to the others, sort of proving the problem with race the WWE has by accident.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,288
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Post by Push R Truth on Jul 10, 2014 14:55:38 GMT -5
I was just going off the top of my head and wasn't paying attention to numbers
Kinda interesting. Wonder if I did it on purpose?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:56:20 GMT -5
Read it again. They mention him AND qualify his position in the article. He personally identifies as Samoan. But he DOESN'T identify as "not black." It is implied though. I'm half-chinese and half white, but when people ask I say identify as white because I don't feel like I've had any kind of Chinese/Chinese-Amercian experience growing up. But I also don't run around saying, "NOT Chinese" when people ask because it is implicit in identifying as white. If he wanted to be identified as black or half-black he would have said as much. His omission speaks just as much.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on Jul 10, 2014 14:59:16 GMT -5
But he DOESN'T identify as "not black." It is implied though. I'm half-chinese and half white, but when people ask I say identify as white because I don't feel like I've had any kind of Chinese/Chinese-Amercian experience growing up. But I also don't run around saying, "NOT Chinese" when people ask because it is implicit in identifying as white. If he wanted to be identified as black or half-black he would have said as much. His omission speaks just as much.Oh it does not. Is Barack Obama not the first black president just because he's only half-black?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -5
The World Title being equal to The Spinner Belt?
I thought it was obvious how unequal they were just looking at the purposes they served a lot of the time. Even if you want to call it a top title, it usually was the top title of the B-Show given to people too big for mid-card titles but not preferred enough for the WWE title.
Like...people trying to tell me The World Title was equal to Cena's Spinner is like telling me Raw and Smackdown were shows with equal standing.
Sure, you might like SD more. Sure, SD may have had better matches. Sure, you might have had moments to where WWE tried to make the show and title mean more (which, yeah...). Sure, they certainly started off as an equal show with an equal title, but that hasn't been the case for ages now. And no, they weren't in the same standing by the time Booker won the World Title.
That's just me seeing a general pattern to how WWE treated their shows.
EDIT: I've got to say this is literally the first time I've ever seen people try to convince me the World Title and Spinner Belts were equal. I'm not sure what that means.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 15:00:31 GMT -5
Not even Rusev’s ravenous appetite for black wrestlers had been enough to draw JTG to television. Someone from here wrote this article. I'm certain of it having seen this one line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 15:01:57 GMT -5
I was just going off the top of my head and wasn't paying attention to numbers Kinda interesting. Wonder if I did it on purpose? If you're going by what's presented by WWE programming it honestly is accurate to what they present gimmick wise so it's no big deal in accidentally thinking it's all equal, but the WWE does offer more ideas/unique characters to Caucasians than anyone else once you look into it all, by far. The whole point of many posters offering 'Yeah but The Rock, and two other black wrestlers in Booker T and Henry!' (We can include Ron Simmons if we go out of the WWE) as proof of equality against many more non-Caucasians being treated fairly in much the same way is just proof of the company NOT being equal. I mean, one of those guys lost to a racist upper class white man at Wrestlemania, and remember the awkward 'Great WHITE' Sheamus nickname happening at the start of their feud? Even the world champions got racist gags against them, accidental or not. Hell, Triple H blacked up as The Rock in that 'wow what a funny moment we'll play everywhere!' in 1999. S'all a bit worrying once you start to notice all things. I don't think the WWE are doing it on purpose, but they've not progressed in a social way for, well, literal decades, and once you draw attention to that it shows how much the company SHOULD do to fix it then 'not on purpose' isn't a good enough reason for them to do feck all to redeem themselves.
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Post by evilhomer on Jul 10, 2014 15:05:22 GMT -5
I am so sick of the whole WM19 thing being incorrectly labelled as racist, I think I'm the only person in the world who actually got that promo. The whole "people like you" thing was in reference to B-level superstars, guys out there to entertain and be comic relief. "Do a little dance for me" - oh, did everyone suddenly forget that Booker's biggest pop move was the spin-a-roony, a comic relief move typically used by B-level entertainers. "nappy hair" - okay, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean so I'll call that a racist comment.
I was shocked when HHH cut this promo because it acknowledged the fact that Booker T wasn't at HHH's level. The storytelling was great and it set Booker T up to enter the top main event level. Then of course the wrong guy went over and shot the whole thing to hell, but I'd chalk that up more to HHH politics and bad booking than racism.
The writer actually does acknowledge my point that it was all painting Booker T as an entertainer below HHH's level, but rather than pointing out that the exact promo and storyline could have been cut on Buff Bagwell, Alex Wright, Disco Inferno, Scotty too Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Honky Tonk Man, or any other white b-level entertainer, he chooses to view it as racism.
Do I know for a fact that this whole thing was not based on race as so many people choose to believe? No of course not. But which is more plausible? My theory, or the theory that they needed to risk the bad publicity of a racism angle because they had no other way of getting their rocks off?
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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 10, 2014 15:05:23 GMT -5
It would be cool if there was another Native American wrestler besides Tatanka. One who isn't a walking stereotype usually played by someone who isn't even Native. I'm Native myself and would like to see my people represented. I understand why that's not very realistic though, because there's like three of us left. Maybe I should become a wrestler.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Jul 10, 2014 15:06:13 GMT -5
The World Title being equal to The Spinner Belt? I thought it was obvious how unequal they were just looking at the purposes they served a lot of the time. Even if you want to call it a top title, it usually was the top title of the B-Show given to people too big for mid-card titles but not preferred enough for the WWE title. Like...people trying to tell me The World Title was equal to Cena's Spinner is like telling me Raw and Smackdown were shows with equal standing. Sure, you might like SD more. Sure, SD may have had better matches. Sure, you might have had moments to where WWE tried to make the show and title mean more. Sure, they certainly started off as an equal show with an equal title, but that hasn't been the case for ages now. And no, they weren't in the same standing by the time Booker won the World Title. That's just me seeing a general pattern to how WWE treated their shows. It might help if you gave reasons as to why that is instead of just "that's how it is". I already mentioned earlier, Booker as world champion beat Cena as WWE champ and Big Show as ECW champion. Ignoring any pre-conceived notions, in kayfabe, how is Booker T as world champion not level with John Cena as WWE champion? If the fans don't buy it then maybe there's something wrong with the fans?
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
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Post by Sparkybob on Jul 10, 2014 15:07:55 GMT -5
Sure, they certainly started off as an equal show with an equal title, but that hasn't been the case for ages now. And no, they weren't in the same standing by the time Booker won the World Title. Booker T and Batista main evented survivor series with the big gold title on the line in 2006.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 15:09:00 GMT -5
I am so sick of the whole WM19 thing being incorrectly labelled as racist, I think I'm the only person in the world who actually got that promo. The whole "people like you" thing was in reference to B-level superstars, guys out there to entertain and be comic relief. "Do a little dance for me" - oh, did everyone suddenly forget that Booker's biggest pop move was the spin-a-roony, a comic relief move typically used by B-level entertainers. "nappy hair" - okay, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean so I'll call that a racist comment. I was shocked when HHH cut this promo because it acknowledged the fact that Booker T wasn't at HHH's level. The storytelling was great and it set Booker T up to enter the top main event level. Then of course the wrong guy went over and shot the whole thing to hell, but I'd chalk that up more to HHH politics and bad booking than racism. The writer actually does acknowledge my point that it was all painting Booker T as an entertainer below HHH's level, but rather than pointing out that the exact promo and storyline could have been cut on Buff Bagwell, Alex Wright, Disco Inferno, Scotty too Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Honky Tonk Man, or any other white b-level entertainer, he chooses to view it as racism. Do I know for a fact that this whole thing was not based on race as so many people choose to believe? No of course not. But which is more plausible? My theory, or the theory that they needed to risk the bad publicity of a racism angle because they had no other way of getting their rocks off? Booker T, in the same set up to that match, was asked by a smiling Triple H who was stepping out of the showers to hand him a motherf***ing towel. Allusions to slavery in the build up with a black wrestler, 'people like you' phrases said by the heel white man, just because Triple H/the company bottled out of saying 'yes, I portrayed a racist heel then f***ed up the match result as we're clueless morons living in the past' doesn't mean it wasn't racist. Whatever the backstage thoughts on that were absolute bollocks. If they said 'yes our heel was a racist at that moment in time' and then admitted idiocy in the outcome to fans, many of us would have thought better of the company, but they didn't, in an interview with Triple H he DENIED any racist undertones of the damned story. Fence sitting cowards, unwilling to admit a big mistake.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Jul 10, 2014 15:09:54 GMT -5
I am so sick of the whole WM19 thing being incorrectly labelled as racist, I think I'm the only person in the world who actually got that promo. The whole "people like you" thing was in reference to B-level superstars, guys out there to entertain and be comic relief. "Do a little dance for me" - oh, did everyone suddenly forget that Booker's biggest pop move was the spin-a-roony, a comic relief move typically used by B-level entertainers. "nappy hair" - okay, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean so I'll call that a racist comment. I was shocked when HHH cut this promo because it acknowledged the fact that Booker T wasn't at HHH's level. The storytelling was great and it set Booker T up to enter the top main event level. Then of course the wrong guy went over and shot the whole thing to hell, but I'd chalk that up more to HHH politics and bad booking than racism. The writer actually does acknowledge my point that it was all painting Booker T as an entertainer below HHH's level, but rather than pointing out that the exact promo and storyline could have been cut on Buff Bagwell, Alex Wright, Disco Inferno, Scotty too Hotty, Grandmaster Sexay, Honky Tonk Man, or any other white b-level entertainer, he chooses to view it as racism. Do I know for a fact that this whole thing was not based on race as so many people choose to believe? No of course not. But which is more plausible? My theory, or the theory that they needed to risk the bad publicity of a racism angle because they had no other way of getting their rocks off? Pretty sure it's just you on that one. And, yes. Of course it's a problem. Whether WWE is willing to do anything about it is another story altogether.
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