Sting V. Undertaker

[olympicgoldmedalist]

As always, there's a lot of talk about Sting v. Taker at WM. Difference this year? Sting's face has appeared on WWE programming(albeit a commercial, it counts as an acknowledgement from WWE.) He's even gone on the record saying he wants to square off with Taker. No doubt Sting still has it in him. Random thought though - This may be something we don't want to see as fans? Taker may be too old to really put this match together as it deserves to be. 2-3-4 years ago? I'm sure they could have torn down the house. Now? ....I just don't know. I feel it MIGHT be something that maybe best left to imagination of what could have been. Thoughts?

[Sephiroth]

Have said before and will say once again: in terms of ring action, it would be a pretty lousy match. If they were both given plenty of time to prepare, they might, MIGHT, be able to pull a decent 20 minute package, but that would be about it. But in terms of sheer drama and fan interest, there could be no better of a scenario. The sheer hype alone would make it every bit as epic Hogan vs Sting or Austin vs Rock were once upon a time. And I personally hold out some small hope that Undertaker might be able to rally himself for one last time to make it happen, but I also won't be amazed if he doesn't.

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:16:29 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Have said before and will say once again: in terms of ring action, it would be a pretty lousy match. If they were both given plenty of time to prepare, they might, MIGHT, be able to pull a decent 20 minute package, but that would be about it. But in terms of sheer drama and fan interest, there could be no better of a scenario. The sheer hype alone would make it every bit as epic Hogan vs Sting or Austin vs Rock were once upon a time. And I personally hold out some small hope that Undertaker might be able to rally himself for one last time to make it happen, but I also won't be amazed if he doesn't.

Before I say this, i'll admit I am a HBK fanboy. However, this has nothing to do with HBK. I just think, the last EPIC match we saw Taker pull out was HBK/Taker II at WM. MAAAYBE they could put a match together that would be worth while, if they got together months before and planned it out from start to finish and planted "big spots" throughout the match, strategically, maybe leaving the last and biggest spot right before the end. But you're right. The pyschology to the buildup to the match it's self would be pretty intense, i'm sure.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Pretty sure we get this Thread once a week...

[ededdneddy]

I picture Undertaker coming out and saying that since the streak is over than the Undertaker is pretty much done with and he delivers this huge speech about calling it quits and all of a sudden lights go out and when they turn on Sting is in the ring telling him that its not over. Sting can also say that there is no more streak but he has never gone face to face with him and he wants that at Wrestlemania. He should say you want to go out on a sour note for losing the streak or go out in grand style for one more mania match against Sting.

[Mayonnaise]

No doubt Sting still has it in him.

No, there is plenty of doubt. Doubt backed by the last 5 years of TNA and the fact he's never stepped foot in a WWE ring in front of 80k fans who will turn on something at the drop of a bat

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:22:35 GMT -5 ededdneddy said:

I picture Undertaker coming out and saying that since the streak is over than the Undertaker is pretty much done with and he delivers this huge speech about calling it quits and all of a sudden lights go out and when they turn on Sting is in the ring telling him that its not over. Sting can also say that there is no more streak but he has never gone face to face with him and he wants that at Wrestlemania. He should say you want to go out on a sour note for losing the streak or go out in grand style for one more mania match against Sting.

That'd be interested. Mid speech - Lights go out, Sting drops, bat attack. Heel Sting? I won't lie, I didn't watch A LOT of WCW but I don't recall a heel Sting. Just stalking Taker for a few months, randomly attacking.

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:23:03 GMT -5 Mayonnaise said:

No doubt Sting still has it in him.

No, there is plenty of doubt. Doubt backed by the last 5 years of TNA and the fact he's never stepped foot in a WWE ring in front of 80k fans who will turn on something at the drop of a bat

That's a fair assessment. But between two, with the time he's had off. I think he's more likely to be physically able to pull it off. I can't tell you that Sting has been infront of 80K people, but he has been in front of pretty big crowds before. As for the TNA, I think, honestly, and this is just my opinion, that his heart wasn't into TNA.

[berlynwright]

Jul 31, 2014 23:24:05 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:22:35 GMT -5 ededdneddy said:

I picture Undertaker coming out and saying that since the streak is over than the Undertaker is pretty much done with and he delivers this huge speech about calling it quits and all of a sudden lights go out and when they turn on Sting is in the ring telling him that its not over. Sting can also say that there is no more streak but he has never gone face to face with him and he wants that at Wrestlemania. He should say you want to go out on a sour note for losing the streak or go out in grand style for one more mania match against Sting.

That'd be interested. Mid speech - Lights go out, Sting drops, bat attack. Heel Sting? I won't lie, I didn't watch A LOT of WCW but I don't recall a heel Sting. Just stalking Taker for a few months, randomly attacking.

noone will boo him

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:30:34 GMT -5 berlynwright said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:24:05 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

That'd be interested. Mid speech - Lights go out, Sting drops, bat attack. Heel Sting? I won't lie, I didn't watch A LOT of WCW but I don't recall a heel Sting. Just stalking Taker for a few months, randomly attacking.

noone will boo him

I don't the smart fans would, but I think you could get the kids and casual fans that make up a majority of the crowd to boo him. The one's that don't really appreciate the legacy of sting because they haven't watched long enough/or just enough.

[Sephiroth]

Jul 31, 2014 23:19:46 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:16:29 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Have said before and will say once again: in terms of ring action, it would be a pretty lousy match. If they were both given plenty of time to prepare, they might, MIGHT, be able to pull a decent 20 minute package, but that would be about it. But in terms of sheer drama and fan interest, there could be no better of a scenario. The sheer hype alone would make it every bit as epic Hogan vs Sting or Austin vs Rock were once upon a time. And I personally hold out some small hope that Undertaker might be able to rally himself for one last time to make it happen, but I also won't be amazed if he doesn't.

Before I say this, i'll admit I am a HBK fanboy. However, this has nothing to do with HBK. I just think, the last EPIC match we saw Taker pull out was HBK/Taker II at WM. MAAAYBE they could put a match together that would be worth while, if they got together months before and planned it out from start to finish and planted "big spots" throughout the match, strategically, maybe leaving the last and biggest spot right before the end. But you're right. The pyschology to the buildup to the match it's self would be pretty intense, i'm sure.

Like I said, if they have plenty of time they could probably pull a decent 20 minute package. If this were 15, or even 8 years ago, they could have done a full hour classic easily. Today, definitely not. "Okay" is the best to hope for in terms of ring action. But in terms of hype-this would leave HBK/Taker in the dust-an honest to goodness, multi-generational fantasy come to life.

[Sephiroth]

Jul 31, 2014 23:32:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:30:34 GMT -5 berlynwright said:

noone will boo him

I don't the smart fans would, but I think you could get the kids and casual fans that make up a majority of the crowd to boo him. The one's that don't really appreciate the legacy of sting because they haven't watched long enough/or just enough.

I just have to disagree. Did you see and hear the responses that the video game promo, and the appearance at comic con drew? Young fans today didn't get to see Sting at his best-but they know who he is and know about that long standing fantasy match for sure.

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:36:21 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:32:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

I don't the smart fans would, but I think you could get the kids and casual fans that make up a majority of the crowd to boo him. The one's that don't really appreciate the legacy of sting because they haven't watched long enough/or just enough.

I just have to disagree. Did you see and hear the responses that the video game promo, and the appearance at comic con drew? Young fans today didn't get to see Sting at his best-but they know who he is and know about that long standing fantasy match for sure.

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Maybe trying to get him over as a heel would be a fall flat on your face failed angle Russo moment.

[Sephiroth]

Jul 31, 2014 23:38:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:36:21 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

I just have to disagree. Did you see and hear the responses that the video game promo, and the appearance at comic con drew? Young fans today didn't get to see Sting at his best-but they know who he is and know about that long standing fantasy match for sure.

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Maybe trying to get him over as a heel would be a fall flat on your face failed angle Russo moment.

As a heel-no way. As a legend-abso-freakin-lutely. Sting/Taker would not really need a face or a heel, the sheer presence of both men facing off would more than make up for that dynamic.

[Urfarkendarf]

Jul 31, 2014 23:23:03 GMT -5 Mayonnaise said:

No doubt Sting still has it in him.

No, there is plenty of doubt. Doubt backed by the last 5 years of TNA and the fact he's never stepped foot in a WWE ring in front of 80k fans who will turn on something at the drop of a bat

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Taker/Lesnar as a match stunk, but the crowd only turned on the finish and were invested in the match even though it was frankly, shit. John Cena vs The Rock II was also an awful match the year before and the crowd didnt turn on it. This is Sting vs Undertaker. The spectacle alone would keep the crowd buzzed straight to the end and if the build is good, (which IMO is the most important aspect) thats also a safety blanket. Unless it was just so putridly awful they couldn't do anything else but bury it, I dont see it being turned on and certainly not a Mania crowd. Mania crowds are generally respectful b/c its full of diehard fans. It would have to be historically bad. I also think that if they decide to do it, both guys can be ready for a 20 minute match months down the line and make it worthwhile. Yes, Sting has never worked in a WWE ring, but the WCW of the 90s wasn't much different, certainly not after Ted Turner's money got into the production values. Sting knows how to work a TV match.

I'm actually more concerned with Taker than Sting at this point. Sting has clearly gotten older and regressed, but Taker moved like he had fallen off a cliff an hour before the match when he was in the ring with Brock.

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:40:52 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:38:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Maybe trying to get him over as a heel would be a fall flat on your face failed angle Russo moment.

As a heel-no way. As a legend-abso-freakin-lutely. Sting/Taker would not really need a face or a heel, the sheer presence of both men facing off would more than make up for that dynamic.

Is there a debate as to who goes over? Could you realistically give Taker 2 back to back WM defeats? Is that how you close out his career? Or do you bring Sting in after all these years just to have him lose his only WWE match?

[Urfarkendarf]

Jul 31, 2014 23:32:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:30:34 GMT -5 berlynwright said:

noone will boo him

I don't the smart fans would, but I think you could get the kids and casual fans that make up a majority of the crowd to boo him. The one's that don't really appreciate the legacy of sting because they haven't watched long enough/or just enough.

You're talking about Raw or Smackdown audiences. Mania audiences are a whole different ballgame. I've been to two Manias in the last 15 years (2000 and 29), and while 2000 was an Attitude era crowd and in an arena and hard to compare to a stadium, the 29 crowd was overwhelmingly die hard fans from all over the world. It's legit like the world's biggest wrestling fan convention and I guarantee you the majority of a Mania crowd know exactly who Sting is. It's not a Raw crowd in Akron on a random Monday in October, those are the crowds I'd be concerned with.

[Mayonnaise]

Jul 31, 2014 23:41:27 GMT -5 Urfarkendarf said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:23:03 GMT -5 Mayonnaise said:

No, there is plenty of doubt. Doubt backed by the last 5 years of TNA and the fact he's never stepped foot in a WWE ring in front of 80k fans who will turn on something at the drop of a bat

I think this is a bit of an overstatement. Taker/Lesnar as a match stunk, but the crowd only turned on the finish and were invested in the match even though it was frankly, shit. John Cena vs The Rock II was also an awful match the year before and the crowd didnt turn on it. This is Sting vs Undertaker. The spectacle alone would keep the crowd buzzed straight to the end and if the build is good, (which IMO is the most important aspect) thats also a safety blanket. Unless it was just so putridly awful they couldn't do anything else but bury it, I dont see it being turned on and certainly not a Mania crowd. Mania crowds are generally respectful b/c its full of diehard fans. It would have to be historically bad. I also think that if they decide to do it, both guys can be ready for a 20 minute match months down the line and make it worthwhile. Yes, Sting has never worked in a WWE ring, but the WCW of the 90s wasn't much different, certainly not after Ted Turner's money got into the production values. Sting knows how to work a TV match.

I'm actually more concerned with Taker than Sting at this point. Sting has clearly gotten older and regressed, but Taker moved like he had fallen off a cliff an hour before the match when he was in the ring with Brock.

On the crowd: Never underestimate them. This match has been the internet wet dream for nearly a decade and if it starts to fail I can easily see people turning on it. I don't expect it but it would not shock me.

On the WWE ring: It is not working WWE style, I don't see Vince, Hunter and Taker expecting that, it is working in a ring far larger than anything else you have ever been in, with ropes you're not used to in a match you have said you want to be your last, on the biggest possible stage of all. No amount of practice can get you ready for all of that and Taker this year is proof of that. 

[olympicgoldmedalist]

Jul 31, 2014 23:47:11 GMT -5 Urfarkendarf said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:32:38 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

I don't the smart fans would, but I think you could get the kids and casual fans that make up a majority of the crowd to boo him. The one's that don't really appreciate the legacy of sting because they haven't watched long enough/or just enough.

You're talking about Raw or Smackdown audiences. Mania audiences are a whole different ballgame. I've been to two Manias in the last 15 years (2000 and 29), and while 2000 was an Attitude era crowd and in an arena and hard to compare to a stadium, the 29 crowd was overwhelmingly die hard fans from all over the world. It's legit like the world's biggest wrestling fan convention. It's not a Mania crowd in Akron on a random Monday in October, those are the crowds I'd be concerned with.

D: almost made it to WM in New Orleans as that's the closest they've been while having the means. Worth the $?

[Sephiroth]

Jul 31, 2014 23:45:07 GMT -5 olympicgoldmedalist said:

Jul 31, 2014 23:40:52 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

As a heel-no way. As a legend-abso-freakin-lutely. Sting/Taker would not really need a face or a heel, the sheer presence of both men facing off would more than make up for that dynamic.

Is there a debate as to who goes over? Could you realistically give Taker 2 back to back WM defeats? Is that how you close out his career? Or do you bring Sting in after all these years just to have him lose his only WWE match?

My personal, fantasy scenario-even before the end of the streak-was this: Undertaker gets the pin, but instead of the usual scenario of him delivering a finisher and the other guy having to lay selling it, he just barely pulls it off; hooks the leg, Sting kicks out just as the three is counted, and Undertaker falls back against the ropes, completely spent, as Sting slams his fist to the mat in frustration. The two of them slowly stand up and state off, sizing each other up. Undertaker slowly holds his hand out, offering it up. Sting glances at the crowd, asking their decision-and they roar approval. He takes the offered hand, they shake, share a short embrace of friendship, and then raise each other arms in triumph. So no matter the result, they both walk out winners with nothing more to prove.