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Post by joeiscool on Aug 18, 2014 18:52:17 GMT -5
I used to work in a nightclub. The bouncers legally couldn't punch anybody, no matter what the circumstances. If they needed to defend themselves against drunk fighting idiots, they could use an open palm slap. I once watched an angry 5'7 bouncer smack the shit out of a drunk clubber and knocked him out. A slap from YOU, dear reader, sitting in front of your computer typing with your small, soft hands is nothing compared to that of a legit fighter. So anybody in this thread saying a slap is barely an assault is talking like a complete idiot. Period. Here's what Del Rio confirmed in that video: He didn't even know the racist guy's name. They spoke one other time 8 months ago. He heard indirectly through somebody else that the racist made a derogatory remark about him. So a 6'5, 240 lbs wrestler/MMA fighter smacked the f*** out of him. Whether or not you think the racist is wrong is now IRRELEVANT. A giant wrestler just assaulted a physically and mentally weak tech employee and potentially gave him a concussion. And he didn't even know his name and they never spoke to each other. Del Rio admits he made a mistake and acted out inappropriately and told everyone they should never do what he did. So that's the end of it. He knows he f***ed up and guess what, he was right. While I agree, I'd like to point out that Barbierri could've easily avoided getting slapped if he didn't talk shit about Del Rio. Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Aug 18, 2014 18:55:27 GMT -5
While I agree, I'd like to point out that Barbierri could've easily avoided getting slapped if he didn't talk shit about Del Rio. Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not. The first amendment only has to do with government intervention/getting arrested, not your employment in a corporation or company. You are still right though; assault is illegal, so ADR escalated things.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Aug 18, 2014 18:58:06 GMT -5
While I agree, I'd like to point out that Barbierri could've easily avoided getting slapped if he didn't talk shit about Del Rio. Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not. The First Amendment really doesn't come into play here. WWE could probably reprimand (if they haven't already) the employee based on his joke and his comment to Del Rio when Del Rio approached him about the joke. His free speech protects him from the government, but not from a reaction from his employer. I don't know the language of WWE's contracts, but I'm sure WWE could find a way to reprimand him. His comments could be considered unprofessional or unacceptable or incendiary. I'm sure WWE's HR or legal departments can use better language than me to describe how the employee's words can lead him to be reprimanded.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 18, 2014 19:08:06 GMT -5
I don't think this was a case of wwe trying to get rid of a big contract. ADR has been pretty open about not wanting to resign when his contract was up. Plus really doesn't sound like he liked many people in WWE anyway or being there anyways.
But ultimately there is no innocent party here
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 18, 2014 19:17:52 GMT -5
Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not. The first amendment only has to do with government intervention/getting arrested, not your employment in a corporation or company. You are still right though; assault is illegal, so ADR escalated things. My point is that the comment its' self is nothing that could get people in legal trouble. Unless Adr proves the comments were too much for him to do his job correctly, or some how a part of a bigger pattern of racist business decisions,there's nothing he could do. Even if adr proves it the most that could happen is the wwe losses tons of money. Assault is a criminal action, and if wwe seemed like they condoned it, the worst that could happen is jail time for officials.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 19:42:23 GMT -5
While I agree, I'd like to point out that Barbierri could've easily avoided getting slapped if he didn't talk shit about Del Rio. Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not. Law is a deterrent. It is not a magical barrier that makes you invincible or paralyzes anyone with a violent thought. Going around and provoking people who are bigger and stronger than you isn't a good idea. It tends to invite disaster.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 18, 2014 19:46:25 GMT -5
Here's the thing "talking shit" is protected under the first amendment however assault is not. The First Amendment really doesn't come into play here. WWE could probably reprimand (if they haven't already) the employee based on his joke and his comment to Del Rio when Del Rio approached him about the joke. His free speech protects him from the government, but not from a reaction from his employer. I don't know the language of WWE's contracts, but I'm sure WWE could find a way to reprimand him. His comments could be considered unprofessional or unacceptable or incendiary. I'm sure WWE's HR or legal departments can use better language than me to describe how the employee's words can lead him to be reprimanded. Lets just say the wwe does nothing to the racist guy. It's in their right to do so, and not get any legal blow back. However since assault is an actual crime, if WWE does nothing they could then be criminally held liable.
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Crimson
Hank Scorpio
Thank you DWade
Posts: 6,511
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Post by Crimson on Aug 18, 2014 20:24:27 GMT -5
The first amendment only has to do with government intervention/getting arrested, not your employment in a corporation or company. You are still right though; assault is illegal, so ADR escalated things. My point is that the comment its' self is nothing that could get people in legal trouble.Unless Adr proves the comments were too much for him to do his job correctly, or some how a part of a bigger pattern of racist business decisions,there's nothing he could do. Even if adr proves it the most that could happen is the wwe losses tons of money. Assault is a criminal action, and if wwe seemed like they condoned it, the worst that could happen is jail time for officials. Actually, allowing employees to make racial comments unpunished could open a floodgate of legal issues.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Aug 18, 2014 20:37:49 GMT -5
The First Amendment really doesn't come into play here. WWE could probably reprimand (if they haven't already) the employee based on his joke and his comment to Del Rio when Del Rio approached him about the joke. His free speech protects him from the government, but not from a reaction from his employer. I don't know the language of WWE's contracts, but I'm sure WWE could find a way to reprimand him. His comments could be considered unprofessional or unacceptable or incendiary. I'm sure WWE's HR or legal departments can use better language than me to describe how the employee's words can lead him to be reprimanded. Lets just say the wwe does nothing to the racist guy. It's in their right to do so, and not get any legal blow back. However since assault is an actual crime, if WWE does nothing they could then be criminally held liable. I've said WWE was kind of forced to fire Del Rio, but I felt like (maybe I misunderstand) that you were saying WWE could not do anything to the social media employee because of the First Amendment. I think I just misunderstood you. So far the major media hasn't cared about this story, but there could be scenarios where WWE would have been well served to have reprimanded this employee for his comments. Of course WWE could have already done that. It's not like WWE announces that kind of thing for non-performing employees.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 18, 2014 20:39:17 GMT -5
My point is that the comment its' self is nothing that could get people in legal trouble.Unless Adr proves the comments were too much for him to do his job correctly, or some how a part of a bigger pattern of racist business decisions,there's nothing he could do. Even if adr proves it the most that could happen is the wwe losses tons of money. Assault is a criminal action, and if wwe seemed like they condoned it, the worst that could happen is jail time for officials. Actually, allowing employees to make racial comments unpunished could open a floodgate of legal issues. Could if proven that these comments where either a repeated pattern of harassment that made it hard for people to do their jobs, or they were apart of a bigger racist environment. For example the owner of Chick fil a made what some called hateful comments about gays.But since he was stating his opinion there's nothing there could be done to him. If some how it come to court that the owner took discriminatory action against gay customers, then his comments could play a role in the case. I'm not saying that making comments is smart, or that they can't lead to any legal ramifications. I'm saying assault is a cut and dry criminal issue, where as racial comments have a lot of lee way in them, and almost always a civil issue.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Aug 18, 2014 20:52:44 GMT -5
The following is just my opinion. Del Rio came in and was given the world. A giant sustained push at the top and in the world and wwe title picture. He dethroned CM Punk in 2011 when no one should have. He was made a big deal fairly quick because he is of Mexican heritage. That's reverse racism. Years later the WWE finally realize there's no place for him in the main event, but still protect him as an upper mid carder and main event contender. Del Rio got butthurt because the show didn't revolve around him and took an opportunity to get out of there without breaching the contract or so he thought. Before I am attacked, cause I know it's coming. I am not condoning racism. If the stories are true I would have slapped the guy too if it were me. But putting someone in their place after comment didn't need to be taken as far as Del Rio did. It was a comment made with words that wasn't even directly toward him. It's not like he pulled a JBL and waited at the border to kick Mexicans back to Mexico. He made a dumbass comment indirectly. Del Rio is coming off as a self absorbed mark for himself. Who was being a baby about not being in the main event anymore. According to the an interview Alberto did, it was actually the second time the employee disrespected him, Alberto has been out of the main event picture for years and has been a professional, always doing what was told him too do, never bitching or moaning or going like Ryder and tweeting about it. What are you talking about? Del Rio's been bitching about his position for a while. There have been many reports that have been saying the only reason why Del Rio was being pushed so hard was to keep him happy, because they knew he wouldn't like being too far from the main event scene. And he started complaining as soon as he lost the World Title to John Cena. Then he's demanding the WWE to release him because he wasn't really getting to do much. He wasn't doing it on twitter, but to act like Del Rio was the perfect company employee is laughable.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 18, 2014 20:55:11 GMT -5
According to the an interview Alberto did, it was actually the second time the employee disrespected him, Alberto has been out of the main event picture for years and has been a professional, always doing what was told him too do, never bitching or moaning or going like Ryder and tweeting about it. What are you talking about? Del Rio's been bitching about his position for a while. There have been many reports that have been saying the only reason why Del Rio was being pushed so hard was to keep him happy, because they knew he wouldn't like being too far from the main event scene. And he started complaining as soon as he lost the World Title to John Cena. Then he's demanding the WWE to release him because he wasn't really getting to do much. He wasn't doing it on twitter, but to act like Del Rio was the perfect company employee is laughable. I meant publicly, if there's interviews about him complaining, I'm sorry I didn't knew that.
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Post by Sparvid on Aug 18, 2014 22:30:07 GMT -5
Can someone with more legal knowledge explain how WWE would have the power to forbid him from wrestle elsewhere for a year?
Alberto says that his contract was ending in February next year, so I can understand if they were to suspend him without pay until then, but how can they order him to do / not do things after that time is up? It's not like WWE is the wrestling equivalence to the State Athletic Commissions or FIFA, and has direct or indirect power over all organizations within the whole "sport" itself.
If Alberto showed up in ROH in March, what would WWE sue him for?
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 18, 2014 22:34:09 GMT -5
Can someone with more legal knowledge explain how WWE would have the power to forbid him from wrestle elsewhere for a year? Alberto says that his contract was ending in February next year, so I can understand if they were to suspend him without pay until then, but how can they order him to do / not do things after that time is up? It's not like WWE is the wrestling equivalence to the State Athletic Commissions or FIFA, and has direct or indirect power over all organizations within the whole "sport" itself. If Alberto showed up in ROH in March, what would WWE sue him for? well, one it's 90 days on compete...
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 18, 2014 23:08:14 GMT -5
Actually, allowing employees to make racial comments unpunished could open a floodgate of legal issues. Could if proven that these comments where either a repeated pattern of harassment that made it hard for people to do their jobs, or they were apart of a bigger racist environment. For example the owner of Chick fil a made what some called hateful comments about gays.But since he was stating his opinion there's nothing there could be done to him. If some how it come to court that the owner took discriminatory action against gay customers, then his comments could play a role in the case. I'm not saying that making comments is smart, or that they can't lead to any legal ramifications. I'm saying assault is a cut and dry criminal issue, where as racial comments have a lot of lee way in them, and almost always a civil issue. You're talking about two completely different things here. The Del Rio situation would be WWE fostering a potentially discriminatory work environment, which is illegal everywhere. There are protections against that. This not only includes the owners refusing or passing people over because of their race, but fostering an environment where racism and discrimination is overlooked. In many states, sexual orientation is not a protected class, but even if it were, making comments that upsets potential customers isn't the same thing as fostering a work environment that is discriminatory to your employees. Taking the less socially acceptable stance in public and protecting a guy making racist remarks are completely different things. Making racist remarks isn't illegal, no, you are right on that, but for a company to allow it to happen without punishment can open them up to a litany of legal problems.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 19, 2014 8:32:10 GMT -5
Could if proven that these comments where either a repeated pattern of harassment that made it hard for people to do their jobs, or they were apart of a bigger racist environment. For example the owner of Chick fil a made what some called hateful comments about gays.But since he was stating his opinion there's nothing there could be done to him. If some how it come to court that the owner took discriminatory action against gay customers, then his comments could play a role in the case. I'm not saying that making comments is smart, or that they can't lead to any legal ramifications. I'm saying assault is a cut and dry criminal issue, where as racial comments have a lot of lee way in them, and almost always a civil issue. You're talking about two completely different things here. The Del Rio situation would be WWE fostering a potentially discriminatory work environment, which is illegal everywhere. There are protections against that. This not only includes the owners refusing or passing people over because of their race, but fostering an environment where racism and discrimination is overlooked. In many states, sexual orientation is not a protected class, but even if it were, making comments that upsets potential customers isn't the same thing as fostering a work environment that is discriminatory to your employees. Taking the less socially acceptable stance in public and protecting a guy making racist remarks are completely different things. Making racist remarks isn't illegal, no, you are right on that, but for a company to allow it to happen without punishment can open them up to a litany of legal problems. read what I said again.....
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 19, 2014 8:48:14 GMT -5
Could if proven that these comments where either a repeated pattern of harassment that made it hard for people to do their jobs, or they were apart of a bigger racist environment. For example the owner of Chick fil a made what some called hateful comments about gays.But since he was stating his opinion there's nothing there could be done to him. If some how it come to court that the owner took discriminatory action against gay customers, then his comments could play a role in the case. I'm not saying that making comments is smart, or that they can't lead to any legal ramifications. I'm saying assault is a cut and dry criminal issue, where as racial comments have a lot of lee way in them, and almost always a civil issue. You're talking about two completely different things here. The Del Rio situation would be WWE fostering a potentially discriminatory work environment, which is illegal everywhere. There are protections against that. This not only includes the owners refusing or passing people over because of their race, but fostering an environment where racism and discrimination is overlooked. In many states, sexual orientation is not a protected class, but even if it were, making comments that upsets potential customers isn't the same thing as fostering a work environment that is discriminatory to your employees. Taking the less socially acceptable stance in public and protecting a guy making racist remarks are completely different things. Making racist remarks isn't illegal, no, you are right on that, but for a company to allow it to happen without punishment can open them up to a litany of legal problems. I think WWE wants to do something to the social media employee, but he threatened to sue the company if they didn't do anything to Del Rio. And keep in mind, this is the same company that got sued because Hulk Hogan choked out a guy who asked him to put a choke hold on him and they had to pay the guy hundreds of thousands of dollars because of it
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 9:00:13 GMT -5
Now now now, Alberto - use your words.
Hitting someone to teach them racism is wrong is like calling someone a racial slur to teach them violence is wrong.
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Post by Bert Hart on Aug 19, 2014 9:53:19 GMT -5
I been called more racist names in so many different languages that you have to come up with some completely new to get a reaction from me. Just because someone calls you are racist name or say a racist remark doesn't give you free pass to assault someone. I understand the anger he felt but I can't sign off on that. I dunno. How do we know this isn't the first time this has happened? If Social Media Racist feels the freedom to make comments like that in the workplace, this couldn't have been the first time it has happened. If you get away with something, you continue to do it. If the idiot has a racist joke prepared for every situation, then he deserves a good hard slap.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 19, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5
I been called more racist names in so many different languages that you have to come up with some completely new to get a reaction from me. Just because someone calls you are racist name or say a racist remark doesn't give you free pass to assault someone. I understand the anger he felt but I can't sign off on that. I dunno. How do we know this isn't the first time this has happened? If Social Media Racist feels the freedom to make comments like that in the workplace, this couldn't have been the first time it has happened. If you get away with something, you continue to do it. If the idiot has a racist joke prepared for every situation, then he deserves a good hard slap. We don't know. Before last week, no one knew of this guy's existence. Now he's painted as a serial racist like Michael Hayes because of this incident. Could been the first time he made an off color comment. Could be one of many. We don't know and the info coming out is the telephone game. Del Rio felt dude ran his mouth enough to be worthy of a bitch slapped and paid the price for that action. There's ways to check someone without striking them. Can't use violence to solve problems every time.
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