Bobby Heenan @ Bash at the Beach 96' - whose side is he on?!

[ACG2x]

I know this has been discussed at some point here before, but I watched the end of the Outsiders/Team WCW match again and was reminded of Brain's comment when Hogan just showed up. The entire match booking and setup were near perfection to that point. I liked the backstage segment where Mean Gene teased who the third man of the Outsiders was and foreshadowed by standing next to their dressing room door and hinting it was a "famiilar voice".

Unfortunately I did not get to see BatB 96' live but heard about Hogan turning heel on the radio the next day since it actually got some mainstream coverage. Upon re-watching when Hogan just showed up hearing Brain say "Yeah, but whose side is he on?!" made me think well that was really dumb, he just gave it away however I knew the ending already. I have read another school of thought that Brain at the time had always dumped on Hogan and hated him in storyline so Brain questioning Hogan's motives while Tony and Dusty were thinking he was insane and couldn't fathom Hulk siding with Hall and Nash was smart by Brain since it was in line with his character's attitude towards Hogan to that point.

WCW hadn't delved into their putrid ineptness of the late 90's yet and this obviously was the catapult to their biggest height so I'm torn on which one to believe. Even if Brain was a Hogan hater in kayfabe, his immediate thought that Hulk would be siding with the two men who were tearing the company he worked for apart is still a little far fetched. I'd be more inclined to believe if Brain made a comment about Hulk standing no chance against Hall and Nash since to that point they were booked as unstoppable monster heels. I also know that in the dying days of WCW the announce team often wasn't clued in on swerves that were about to happen so they often sat there in disbelief and confusion; maybe this incident was a reason why.

It's interesting to note that Brain's comment was edited out of the Hulk Hogan Anthology DVD and I believe several other places. It's tough for me to believe that this was anything but Brain slipping up and accidentally giving away the big swerve. If so, Dusty made a nice recovery by acting shocked and saying "Wh-what are you talkin' about?!?" right after.

Thoughts on this one? Like I said it's been discussed here before but I'd welcome fresh perspectives.

[willyjakes]

I remember hearing the "which side is he on" comment as it happened live and never gave it a second thought because I knew he wasn't on the side of hall and nash. Heenan had been ripping on hogan for the better part of a decade at that point and everything he said about him was kayfabe wrong at that point...so why would this instance be any different? I sort of thought when Hogan came out that they would give him a brutal beat down earthquake 1990 style and have him stretchered out.

[Deleted]

It could easily go either way.

At the time, I just thought the Brain was being the Brain. No one thought Hogan would turn, so I don't see his comments as really giving anything away. Dusty's reaction to Heenen's comment probably reflected exactly what everyone was thinking at home.

Personally, I think it would have been better if Heenan had not said it. This was a period when the babyfaces and heels were uniting behind the company to fight off the "hostile takeover" from outsiders. Thus, it makes more sense to me that Heenan would have put aside his rivalry with Hogan to cheer for the fact that a WCW guy was coming to rescue other WCW guys. Then, when Hogan turned, Heenen could have immediately done an "I've been telling you about this man for years!" Whether inadvertently or not, I think Heenan's comment was a distraction that put our focus on him when we should have been 100% focused on Hogan coming to WCW's rescue.

["Playboy" Don Douglas]

This, to me, has always been one of the most overblown "issues" in wrestling.

[OGBoardPoster2005]

When was Hogan's last appearance prior to this? What was he even doing in the build up?

[cabbageboy]

Hogan kinda took time off after Uncensored and the horrible triple cage deal. I have some trouble with this whole Heenan comment because I only saw it on a VHS tape later, so I knew Hogan was the 3rd man. But that said, even if I had been watching live I would have known that Hogan was obviously the 3rd man. Why else would he be there?

[A Platypus Rave]

It was just Heenan being Heenan. Heenan hated Hogan and always hated Hogan and constantly ran him down at any opportunity he could. Usually around Hogan being completely phony and only in wrestling for himself. (See how Smug Heenan was at the end of Bash at the Beach because he was proven completely right.)

If Heenan said something like OH THANK GOD! HOGAN IS HERE! It would have been much more noticeable to the fans watching at the time that something was up.

Also WCW didn't always tell their commentators what was going to happen.

[chazzbusby]

I think it's far more likely that Heenan hadn't been told who the third man was. Creative liked to keep announcers in the dark and would only tell Schiavone. (Who wouldn't tell the others and would act smug as shit because he knew what was going to happen - in fact Heenan has been quoted as saying it used to piss him off)

So Heenan, uninformed of Hogan's switch, probably didn't even consider it a possibility and was just reacting as his character would.

[Rave]

I am pretty sure it's been mentioned that Heenan had no idea who the third man was and was just stirring stuff up as usual.

[sunnytaker]

Aug 27, 2014 11:15:13 GMT -5 chazzbusby said:

I think it's far more likely that Heenan hadn't been told who the third man was. Creative liked to keep announcers in the dark and would only tell Schiavone. (Who wouldn't tell the others and would act smug as shit because he knew what was going to happen - in fact Heenan has been quoted as saying it used to piss him off)

So Heenan, uninformed of Hogan's switch, probably didn't even consider it a possibility and was just reacting as his character would.

that's what i had heard too. Heenan wasn;t told who the 3rd man was going to be and he just did his usual "don't trust hogan" thing he's done for years. it just so happened that Heenan was actually right this time which got people to think he spoiled the turn.

[chazraps]

Aug 27, 2014 10:40:53 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

If Heenan said something like OH THANK GOD! HOGAN IS HERE! It would have been much more noticeable to the fans watching at the time that something was up.

Exactly.

Anyone who has an issue with "BUT WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?!" needs to re-read Platty's sentence right here until it sets in.

Heenan and Hogan had been at odds for at least 13 years on-air. Hogan's been the mystery partner/variable in so many on-air situations prior to that where Heenan asked "but whose side is he on?"

There's more precedent for their relationship than any other pair in wrestling at that point. 13 years of continuity.

Absolutely nobody who was watching live thought they had a huge twist spoiled for them. No-one. This is an artificial issue created by people who've only seen it after the result was in the history books.

[Lance Uppercut]

Aug 27, 2014 9:42:04 GMT -5 "Playboy" Don Douglas said:

This, to me, has always been one of the most overblown "issues" in wrestling.

But are you "confused yet interested"

Because I actually was. I don't know why people have a problem with that line.

[Joe Neglia]

Everything about the moment gave Hogan away, not just Heenan (and yeah, Heenan was absolutely in-character saying that and shouldn't have it held against him). Look at any other time Hogan came down the aisle to help someone who was getting their ass kicked - he always comes out full-steam. Not Ultimate Warrior-charging or anything, but pumped up, wild-eyed, and building fan energy momentum as he gets closer to the ring. This time he just sort of...saunters down. Almost taking his time. You can tell right then and there it's not the same Hogan. He's playing the moment up and it's almost a charade by that point.

[DjZonk]

Aug 27, 2014 11:22:26 GMT -5 Rave said:

I am pretty sure it's been mentioned that Heenan had no idea who the third man was and was just stirring stuff up as usual.

This. Nobody saw Hogan turning. Tony was just on JR's podcast and they discussed this, the announce team didn't know. A WCW management blunder. 

[ACG2x]

I like the perspectives so far. I wasn't trying to make a big issue out of it, just find it interesting that he would make that exact quote during the biggest heel turn and quite possibly one of the top three unexpected swerves in wrestling history.

I'm assuimg the circle of people "in the know" that Hogan was the third man was very limited. Bischoff and the match participants obviously and guessing a few other higher ups from creative. Let's say that Bischoff did tell the announcers that Hogan would be the third man. Do you think the reactions would have come off better on the broadcast?

I'm really not sure as I think the genuine shock that Schiavonie and Dusty had came off really well on the show. For as much as I'm 'meh' on Schiavonie, his "OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!" and "Hulk Hogan you can go to hell...straight to hell" really worked well with the moment seeing fans throw garbage in the ring at the nWo.

[Martin: #TeamBella Treasurer]

I don't know if it is because we have become accustomed to seeing face/heel turns in abundance since 1996 but watching it now it is difficult to imagine falling for the swerve, hindsight and all that, lol. I would LOVE to have been watching WCW at the time to witness and experience Hogan's turn.

[2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer]

Aug 27, 2014 12:11:54 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Everything about the moment gave Hogan away, not just Heenan (and yeah, Heenan was absolutely in-character saying that and shouldn't have it held against him). Look at any other time Hogan came down the aisle to help someone who was getting their ass kicked - he always comes out full-steam. Not Ultimate Warrior-charging or anything, but pumped up, wild-eyed, and building fan energy momentum as he gets closer to the ring. This time he just sort of...saunters down. Almost taking his time. You can tell right then and there it's not the same Hogan. He's playing the moment up and it's almost a charade by that point.

Good point. I saw this match well after it aired, and that could affect my perspective, but I had a few other thoughts on how obvious the turn should have been, once Hogan arrived. Once Hogan entered, who was left to top him? If he had arrived, and aided Sting and Savage, anyone that Hall and Nash would have had waiting in the hole, would have seemed terribly anti climatic, no? "Hulk Hogan is here to face down these invaders! And now they're calling for their 3rd guy! And it's, Jeff Jarrett?" That's lame.

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone really knew for sure if Hogan was going to turn until the moment that Hogan showed up. I've read multiple times that they had Sting as a backup because no one was 100% sure that Hogan was going to go through with it.

[chazraps]

Aug 27, 2014 12:11:54 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Everything about the moment gave Hogan away, not just Heenan (and yeah, Heenan was absolutely in-character saying that and shouldn't have it held against him). Look at any other time Hogan came down the aisle to help someone who was getting their ass kicked - he always comes out full-steam. Not Ultimate Warrior-charging or anything, but pumped up, wild-eyed, and building fan energy momentum as he gets closer to the ring. This time he just sort of...saunters down. Almost taking his time. You can tell right then and there it's not the same Hogan. He's playing the moment up and it's almost a charade by that point.

Well, to be fair, if there was ever a time that a Hulk entrance could be ambiguous, it's here. To put it in context, the previous fall we got a heel Hogan teased during the midway point of the Dungeon of Doom feud. Once Hogan got his mustache shaved and started adding black to his attire, we got flashes of a somewhat more serious Hogan. Given that we got "dedicated no-nonsense Hulkster" right around the time we had last seen him before he was off television for three-four months, it wasn't that out of the ordinary. Sure, it was peculiar, but we could have just as easily gotten Hogan walking like that to the ring and then attacking the Outsiders and cutting a promo along the lines of "WCW is where the big boys play, dude, but we aren't playing anymore, jack! The Dungeon of Doom and the Alliance to end Hulkamania seemed like the most evil force in WCW, brother, but these invaders are a whole different evil we haven't seen before. If you and the boys in New York want a war, brother, you better prepare the heavy artillery, because wat'cha gonna..." etc.

[molson5]

Aug 27, 2014 16:03:46 GMT -5 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer said:

Aug 27, 2014 12:11:54 GMT -5 Joe Neglia said:

Everything about the moment gave Hogan away, not just Heenan (and yeah, Heenan was absolutely in-character saying that and shouldn't have it held against him). Look at any other time Hogan came down the aisle to help someone who was getting their ass kicked - he always comes out full-steam. Not Ultimate Warrior-charging or anything, but pumped up, wild-eyed, and building fan energy momentum as he gets closer to the ring. This time he just sort of...saunters down. Almost taking his time. You can tell right then and there it's not the same Hogan. He's playing the moment up and it's almost a charade by that point.

Good point. I saw this match well after it aired, and that could affect my perspective, but I had a few other thoughts on how obvious the turn should have been, once Hogan arrived. Once Hogan entered, who was left to top him? If he had arrived, and aided Sting and Savage, anyone that Hall and Nash would have had waiting in the hole, would have seemed terribly anti climatic, no? "Hulk Hogan is here to face down these invaders! And now they're calling for their 3rd guy! And it's, Jeff Jarrett?" That's lame.

The assumption on the internet at the time was that Luger was the third man. And they seemed to be going in that direction when Luger was taking out of the match early. I thought he'd triumphantly return from injury a few minutes later and then turn on WCW. I don't even remember any speculation that it'd be Hogan. Of course, there weren't message boards like this dissecting every possibility, and the IWC was just a much smaller place at the time.

And even if someone thought Heenan's comment, or the way Hogan came to the ring was some kind of tip-off, the whole thing was crazy and dramatic and surprising enough that there's zero way either definitely "spoiled" things for anyone. I'm not even sure something can really be spoiled 10 seconds before it happens. At most, it might have made a few people perk up and look at the screen and say, "would they?" "might this actually happen". And by then it happens.