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Post by sfvega on Aug 28, 2014 3:22:10 GMT -5
No Jobber matches for the most part suck. They're ok if the person doing the squashing is just flat out destroying jobbers like Ryback did. But when you've got a slow, methodical, plodding hoss just using lame punches, chokeholds and basic body slams they're shit. Just have less matches on Raw but make them competitive and longer. Instead of Sandow getting beat in 30 seconds, have him lose but at least put on a somewhat competitive performance. That way every guy on the roster is somewhat credible and all can believably step up to a title feud if needs be. Now, I couldn't take Sandow seriously. But I can take Cesaro seriously because even though he's been on a losing streak he has looked somewhat competitive so it's believable for him to start winning again. Longer, good, competitive matches will do more for both guys than seeing a pointless, by-the-numbers 3 minute squash. Squash matches suck, but they serve a purpose. Hell, there's plenty of matches out there that suck. That doesn't mean cut them out altogether. Using guys from NXT is a terrible idea. I like that they use guys from the big roster down there sometimes, and I think there should be a competition to get to the main roster. Like Neville beats RVD, he gets to go to the big show (no pun) now. But if you establish these guys as jobbers, the crowd will almost never see them in the same light again. Why saddle them with so much bad to begin with? Ok, you're gonna get a bad debut, you're gonna job to wrestlers that you are arguably better than, and if you stick around getting _squashed_ long enough, we'll try and tell the crowd that you're good eventually. I think it should be like real sports, where some rookies can come in and hang with seasoned veterans. The premise that everybody down in NXT isn't good enough to beat the guys on the main roster is a dangerous first step.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT -5
No Jobber matches for the most part suck. They're ok if the person doing the squashing is just flat out destroying jobbers like Ryback did. But when you've got a slow, methodical, plodding hoss just using lame punches, chokeholds and basic body slams they're shit. Just have less matches on Raw but make them competitive and longer. Instead of Sandow getting beat in 30 seconds, have him lose but at least put on a somewhat competitive performance. That way every guy on the roster is somewhat credible and all can believably step up to a title feud if needs be. Now, I couldn't take Sandow seriously. But I can take Cesaro seriously because even though he's been on a losing streak he has looked somewhat competitive so it's believable for him to start winning again. Longer, good, competitive matches will do more for both guys than seeing a pointless, by-the-numbers 3 minute squash. Squash matches suck, but they serve a purpose. Hell, there's plenty of matches out there that suck. That doesn't mean cut them out altogether. Using guys from NXT is a terrible idea. I like that they use guys from the big roster down there sometimes, and I think there should be a competition to get to the main roster. Like Neville beats RVD, he gets to go to the big show (no pun) now. But if you establish these guys as jobbers, the crowd will almost never see them in the same light again. Why saddle them with so much bad to begin with? Ok, you're gonna get a bad debut, you're gonna job to wrestlers that you are arguably better than, and if you stick around getting _squashed_ long enough, we'll try and tell the crowd that you're good eventually. I think it should be like real sports, where some rookies can come in and hang with seasoned veterans. The premise that everybody down in NXT isn't good enough to beat the guys on the main roster is a dangerous first step. The current premise doesn't seem right either. Right now it's not, "Rookies can hang with seasoned veterans". It's "Guys on the main roster are being sent to NXT because they suck at wrestling. Look at them, they're so bad they can't even beat minor league guys." That doesn't really look good either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 4:26:20 GMT -5
I say just designate certain people to be official jobbers that you know you won't push and don't need credibility.
An example list might be Kofi, Big E, R Truth, Mark Henry, and Xavier Woods.
This shouldn't cause any problems.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Aug 28, 2014 5:23:17 GMT -5
Nope as bringing them back aint going to do shit.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 28, 2014 5:33:32 GMT -5
Full 90s style Jobber squash shows? No thanks. There is a place for jobbers though, if you want heels to go over someone in a squash match, why not use local indy talent? It's a good way for them to get their foot in the door at the WWE if they impress and you don't damage the career of someone you may want to use down the line like an NXT guy.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 28, 2014 6:30:58 GMT -5
I feel like Bo Dallas's gimmick was built for him squashing No Name Jobbers...
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 7:55:32 GMT -5
Yes
It's utterly essential
No jobbers is another useless legacy of the Attitude Era that is now detrimental to the product.
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Post by tropicalstormstl on Aug 28, 2014 8:15:05 GMT -5
They could bring jobbers back and have it be an ongoing story for the lower card. Guys get introduced onto tv and you're told they have 5 matches to win a WWE contract. You have a bunch of the dudes just lose their 5 matches over the course of a few different shows in that region but every now and then you use it to debut a new guy by having them lose a couple but then pull one out against one of the low card guys. Then they try to work their way up from there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 8:20:55 GMT -5
All you'd get is how the jobbers deserve better, how lower card guys never get TV time because jobber matches take it all and just no.
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RBD
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Post by RBD on Aug 28, 2014 8:49:51 GMT -5
I'm in two minds. If WWE continue to book the way they currently do, then sure. At least it provides some protection for talents that have no business being fed to workers higher up the card. However, I've always found it ridiculous with the depth of talent available that they can't book everyone competitively enough that they can take a loss without damaging their credibility.
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 28, 2014 10:26:08 GMT -5
Use the guys from NXT. These guys come in with a gimmick that most of the audience doesn't know and get wins upon debut to no reaction, then get depushed when management gives up on them. Bring them in as job guys to get used to working in front of bigger crowds and with better wrestlers to teach them on the job. Then re-debut them when they have a real plan for these guys. See the problem with that is, if you see Adrian Neville or Sami Zayn jobbing to Bo Dallas and Jack Swagger, when you watch NXT you'll just be like "WTF these guys suck, they lost to Fandango and they're competing for the NXT title? No wonder Tyson Kidd is feuding with them, least he stands a chance!" Of course if you use someone who's a loser like Angelo Dawkins, it's not a problem. I always look back at the evolution of the Hardy Boyz for how jobbers can become credible. I remember them as a named, but thoroughly jobby tag team, who would turn up on occasion to get squashed by the Smoking Gunns or Owen and Bulldog. And they had a tiny bit of name recognition through that, but Michael Hayes became their manager and 'saw something in these kids' or whatever, turning them into legitimate WWE wrestlers. It can be done, but I think it would have to be with the guys who aren't even on NXT yet (or are jobbers on NXT). And by the time they make it into NXT, they should be considered beyond pure jobbing. Either that, or use local indy guys, like the Hardys probably were during their jobber phase.
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Post by jimblazer on Aug 28, 2014 18:42:25 GMT -5
I would love jobber matches to come back. I even loved it when they performed lame ass promos before they got creamed by Ryback.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 28, 2014 18:48:00 GMT -5
All you'd get is how the jobbers deserve better, how lower card guys never get TV time because jobber matches take it all and just no. That honestly IS what will happen. Lower card guys will never get TV time because the local Indy jobbers will take their spots. Why bother flying Zack Ryder out to random city when some 165 lb twink from 3LW or SWV or whatever in town will do it for $400 and a used McDonalds gift card worth $4.17? Jobbers will make the lower end of the roster even more expendable than WWE already sees them as.
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Aug 28, 2014 18:55:22 GMT -5
The more detrimental relics of the Monday Night War gone, the better.
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keezy
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Post by keezy on Aug 28, 2014 19:11:26 GMT -5
Considering a man who almost beat John Cena now loses in a few minutes to Adam Rose they should definitely use unknown jobbers to at least make things look believable.
What I liked about the Ryback squashes was that most of those guys were just undefined 150lbs guys, you could see why they would lose unlike a 250 pound man losing to some dancing guy.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 19:13:49 GMT -5
All you'd get is how the jobbers deserve better, how lower card guys never get TV time because jobber matches take it all and just no. That honestly IS what will happen. Lower card guys will never get TV time because the local Indy jobbers will take their spots. Why bother flying Zack Ryder out to random city when some 165 lb twink from 3LW or SWV or whatever in town will do it for $400 and a used McDonalds gift card worth $4.17? Jobbers will make the lower end of the roster even more expendable than WWE already sees them as. Lower card guys could be pushed. If jobbers were brought in, a guy like Zack Ryder could get some wins, actually pleasing his fans for a change instead of watching him get obliterated constantly.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 28, 2014 19:15:06 GMT -5
You'd have to balance it right. You couldn't have the old Superstars method of 90 percent jobber matches. That said, it's always a good way to introduce a character and his signature spots.
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Post by JTG Fan on Aug 28, 2014 19:16:54 GMT -5
While I can't see any other way than this for people to get their desire of EVERYONE on the roster looking strong, unfortunately I don't think WWE are willing take the possible ratings and attendance hit. I doubt somebody buying a ticket to WWE is going to choose not to because I they an enhancement talent on television. And for ratings, I would argue that Joe Blow watching TV isn't anymore more likely to change the channel from Rusev squashing some guy in a singlet in a minute than he is Rusev squashing Sin Cara in a minute. Same for people channel flipping.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Aug 28, 2014 19:26:24 GMT -5
No Jobber matches for the most part suck. They're ok if the person doing the squashing is just flat out destroying jobbers like Ryback did. But when you've got a slow, methodical, plodding hoss just using lame punches, chokeholds and basic body slams they're shit. Just have less matches on Raw but make them competitive and longer. Instead of Sandow getting beat in 30 seconds, have him lose but at least put on a somewhat competitive performance. That way every guy on the roster is somewhat credible and all can believably step up to a title feud if needs be. Now, I couldn't take Sandow seriously. But I can take Cesaro seriously because even though he's been on a losing streak he has looked somewhat competitive so it's believable for him to start winning again. Longer, good, competitive matches will do more for both guys than seeing a pointless, by-the-numbers 3 minute squash. Sandow hasn't lost in 30 second in ages. Raw matches are usually plenty long
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 28, 2014 19:27:25 GMT -5
That honestly IS what will happen. Lower card guys will never get TV time because the local Indy jobbers will take their spots. Why bother flying Zack Ryder out to random city when some 165 lb twink from 3LW or SWV or whatever in town will do it for $400 and a used McDonalds gift card worth $4.17? Jobbers will make the lower end of the roster even more expendable than WWE already sees them as. Lower card guys could be pushed. If jobbers were brought in, a guy like Zack Ryder could get some wins, actually pleasing his fans for a change instead of watching him get obliterated constantly. I just don't see it happening that way. Especially not with, as you've described, "a senile old carny" like Vince in charge. Zack doesn't need to just randomly hit his spots on little skinny twigs who look barely out of high school. Lowercard guys could be pushed NOW, but WWE just refuses to. I'd rather watch Zack and Heath Slater getting to put on a 10 minute clinic where both guys look good no matter who wins. I want to watch Zack have a competitive loss against an upper midcard guy like Miz. I want to see Zack and Alex Riley have a face vs. face comedy feud that the commentators try to sell as being "epic" by throwing in video packages and contract signing segments as a joke a la Hornswoggle/Torito. That kind of stuff can make the fans care more about the lower card guys.
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