Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,484
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Post by Dragonfly on Aug 31, 2014 20:55:10 GMT -5
Anyway, I do like that subversive forms of racism are getting increased scrutiny as time goes on. It always bugs me to see people talk about the south like the Mason-Dixon Line is a magic barrier put up by sorcerers and that bigotry vanishes. Definitely a rude awakening for the sheltered and naive once they are faced with the realities of racism being a global problem. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am a trans person who was born and raised in Pittsburgh, but currently lives in Atlanta. In the past six years, I've been treated far better here than I ever was back home. Hell, that "redneck with a rebel flag, 'the South will rise again'" stereotype is a way of life in my hometown.
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Post by Long A, Short A on Aug 31, 2014 21:06:05 GMT -5
Good video. Now, if there was a corresponding video for men's rights activists, that'd be great. Do you know where your ice cream is?
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Post by Sparvid on Aug 31, 2014 21:06:28 GMT -5
Didn't you know? Only white people can be racist... What irks me is the term "reverse racism." No. There is no such thing. There is racism. The reverse of having something is NOT having something. Including, in this instance a belief structure. Woman #1: "I'm pregnant" Woman #2: "I'm not pregnant" Woman #3: "I'm reverse pregnant"
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Post by Amazing Kitsune on Aug 31, 2014 21:10:15 GMT -5
While it brings up fodder for a classic FAN Forum discussion of race relations--it's just not a very funny video. It's a really smug video.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,870
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Aug 31, 2014 21:16:37 GMT -5
Good video. Now, if there was a corresponding video for men's rights activists, that'd be great. Do you know where your ice cream is? Oh my god. This is my new favorite thing. Thank you.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Aug 31, 2014 21:18:50 GMT -5
Good video. Now, if there was a corresponding video for men's rights activists, that'd be great. Do you know where your ice cream is? Hey, The Matrix is a good movie.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,428
Member is Online
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 31, 2014 21:58:35 GMT -5
They should add a video focusing on "Well why we can't have a straight pride parade?!" to complete this trifecta. As a dude who likes dudes, I actually think there SHOULD be a straight pride parade. There have been straight pride parades now and then. Usually primarily populated by neo-nazis. You can draw your own conclusions.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Aug 31, 2014 22:11:19 GMT -5
As a dude who likes dudes, I actually think there SHOULD be a straight pride parade. There have been straight pride parades now and then. Usually primarily populated by neo-nazis. You can draw your own conclusions. Soooooo...... we should start a Bi Guys for Straight Pride club?
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Post by Unaffiliated on Aug 31, 2014 22:20:28 GMT -5
Regarding what is racist and what is not, I do believe there is a slight difference in standards when it comes to whites and minorities. I think raising the point about no non-white racists in the video has some validity... it does seem acceptable to associate ignorance and racism with white people.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Aug 31, 2014 22:24:00 GMT -5
but I'm sick of everyone else being allowed to do stuff but white people. It's racism against white people and I'm tired of the fact that it still goes on in this country. So, how does it feel?
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 31, 2014 22:30:22 GMT -5
I know this'll parrot some of what was already said, but I had an instance of this in the last school year.
I teach high school history, and late this past school year we were discussing the book/documentary Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond in the honors sophomore World History class I had. This led into a discussion of the invention of race, an entirely social construct with no basis in biology, but a construct that has nonetheless set and guided the destinies of untold billions of people since its inception.
I let the discussion drift a bit toward what racism really was, and one of my students asked about Jay-Z being at a basketball game wearing some kind of pendant that supposedly marked membership in some kind of anti-white racist group; as I don't know what his particular views are, I couldn't comment on that, but the student, who very often had his own political agenda to push in class (sometimes at the expense of our actual lesson, which tended to put me a bit off), wanted to push and ask "Are you saying Jay-Z can't be racist?"
The school I teach in is primarily white, but has a pretty decent-sized African American population, as well; this was reflected in the classroom, and all I could think of was what a bummer it would be if we wound up offending everybody in the room so close to the end of the school year.
But, thankfully, it was a teachable moment, or at least I hope it was. The best I could explain it was the way MOP did on page 2: any person of any ethnicity can have racist beliefs, judgments, or practices. However, no, Jay-Z can't be racist in the way we traditionally define it, as traditional racism, particularly in American history, revolves around institutional racism, which is reflected in societal beliefs, judgments, and practices, not so much those of the individual. Jay-Z can't be racist in a way that actively harms or lessens the quality of the life of another person, outside of direct, individual interaction; meanwhile, by simply being who I am (a white man in America), I can harm or lessen the quality of life of another person VERY easily, and I can do it simply by going about my daily business and propagating a system that, to many, seems inherently unfair.
The tragic part of institutional racism is that we are all, in many cases despite our best efforts, complicit in it, at least at times. Our entire nation was founded on what became a thoroughly racist institution very quickly (slavery, followed by sharecropping, and basically apartheid politics), and thus to this day "white" remains the default, as others have been saying, in our media, our popular images, in our depictions of "traditional America", etc.
Reminds me of the Louis CK routine where he explains why he'd re-up to be white again if he was given the choice, based largely on "We've got it good, and there's literally nothing you can call me pertaining to my race that could offend me", which basically ties into the earlier cited James Baldwin quote concerning the nature of whiteness.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Aug 31, 2014 22:43:52 GMT -5
To be serious, the most white people are gonna get out of non-whites saying/doing racist stuff is hurt feelings, which is VERY apparent in this thread. Outside of that, you can't be sitting here, getting mad over a damn video when on a daily basis non-whites have to worry about their safety and having to work twice as hard as y'all to only get a fraction of what y'all got. Simple as that. Don't get mad at us non-whites because at the end of the day, it all goes back to white Europeans.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 31, 2014 22:48:32 GMT -5
The tragic part of institutional racism is that we are all, in many cases despite our best efforts, complicit in it, at least at times. Our entire nation was founded on what became a thoroughly racist institution very quickly (slavery, followed by sharecropping, and basically apartheid politics), and thus to this day "white" remains the default, as others have been saying, in our media, our popular images, in our depictions of "traditional America", etc. And that's just against Africans. European colonists, and later Americans, evicted, enslaved, raped, and committed outright genocide against the indigenous peoples. Though hey, at least American white people have been more inclusive about who is considered "white" lately. Like the German, Irish, Italian, etc. immigrants back in the 18th century were looked at as second-class citizens because back then "white" meant "Anglo-Saxon Protestant." The KKK hates Jews and Catholics almost as much as black folks.
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Post by Unaffiliated on Aug 31, 2014 22:57:00 GMT -5
To be serious, the most white people are gonna get out of non-whites saying/doing racist stuff is hurt feelings, which is VERY apparent in this thread. Outside of that, you can't be sitting here, getting mad over a damn video when on a daily basis non-whites have to worry about their safety and having to work twice as hard as y'all to only get a fraction of what y'all got. Simple as that. Don't get mad at us non-whites because at the end of the day, it all goes back to white Europeans. But then would it be acceptable for whites to say/do racist stuff to non-whites that would only amount to hurt feelings? I should specify that I'm not white at all. Just uncomfortable with what I perceive to be a double standard.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 31, 2014 23:00:56 GMT -5
The tragic part of institutional racism is that we are all, in many cases despite our best efforts, complicit in it, at least at times. Our entire nation was founded on what became a thoroughly racist institution very quickly (slavery, followed by sharecropping, and basically apartheid politics), and thus to this day "white" remains the default, as others have been saying, in our media, our popular images, in our depictions of "traditional America", etc. And that's just against Africans. European colonists, and later Americans, evicted, enslaved, raped, and committed outright genocide against the indigenous peoples. Though hey, at least American white people have been more inclusive about who is considered "white" lately. Like the German, Irish, Italian, etc. immigrants back in the 18th century were looked at as second-class citizens because back then "white" meant "Anglo-Saxon Protestant." The KKK hates Jews and Catholics almost as much as black folks. Absolutely; the entire definition of "white" has shifted and changed so much over the centuries that it's dizzying to try to figure out what it ever meant in the first place. Plus we can get into the anti-Chinese labor movement in the West in the 19th century, the anti-Irish politics of the Eastern cities a few decades before that, etc. African-Americans tend to get the shortest end of the stick because of the awfulness of how they were mostly brought over to the New World in the first place, and then the centuries of enforced poverty and lack of opportunity that followed, and that have really only JUST begun to ease up in very recent times, and even then at an absolutely glacial pace.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Aug 31, 2014 23:01:14 GMT -5
To be serious, the most white people are gonna get out of non-whites saying/doing racist stuff is hurt feelings, which is VERY apparent in this thread. Outside of that, you can't be sitting here, getting mad over a damn video when on a daily basis non-whites have to worry about their safety and having to work twice as hard as y'all to only get a fraction of what y'all got. Simple as that. Don't get mad at us non-whites because at the end of the day, it all goes back to white Europeans. But then would it be acceptable for whites to say/do racist stuff to non-whites that would only amount to hurt feelings? I should specify that I'm not white at all. Just uncomfortable with what I perceive to be a double standard. lol we already get that as is without permission, so we're use to that and much worst thing. I don't mean to laugh, but that's literally NOTHING to us.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 31, 2014 23:05:29 GMT -5
To be serious, the most white people are gonna get out of non-whites saying/doing racist stuff is hurt feelings, which is VERY apparent in this thread. Outside of that, you can't be sitting here, getting mad over a damn video when on a daily basis non-whites have to worry about their safety and having to work twice as hard as y'all to only get a fraction of what y'all got. Simple as that. Don't get mad at us non-whites because at the end of the day, it all goes back to white Europeans. But then would it be acceptable for whites to say/do racist stuff to non-whites that would only amount to hurt feelings? I should specify that I'm not white at all. Just uncomfortable with what I perceive to be a double standard. Speaking as a white guy, you could call me whatever name you'd like that's supposedly derogatory towards white people (or Irish people, Italian people, other parts of my cultural background), and I most likely wouldn't really take any offense; after all, I've never experienced any sort of racism, even casual, inadvertent/unintentional racism, that ever hurt me due to the fact that I'm white/part Irish/part Italian/etc. That's not the case for a lot of minority groups, communities that often experience harm in some way based on little more than their ethnic composition/appearance. When one person is incapable of hurting the other with their actions, but the other is capable of absolutely devastating that person if they acted on it, then it really isn't a double standard.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 31, 2014 23:13:51 GMT -5
I'm in a weird position with this because I am white. But I'm also Jewish and while I wouldn't say antisemitism is racism per se (as Judaism is a religion and a culture, not a race), it's still an institutionalized bigotry that can and often has led to widespread persecution.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 31, 2014 23:38:50 GMT -5
I'm one of the whitest white dudes that's ever been white (Seriously, I have Irish/Scottish/German ancestry.. pigment, not so much); and honestly if someone was to call me a white slur, I'd probably laugh. I mean: Cracker? Honkey? Those are just funny.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Aug 31, 2014 23:42:01 GMT -5
And that's just against Africans. European colonists, and later Americans, evicted, enslaved, raped, and committed outright genocide against the indigenous peoples. Though hey, at least American white people have been more inclusive about who is considered "white" lately. Like the German, Irish, Italian, etc. immigrants back in the 18th century were looked at as second-class citizens because back then "white" meant "Anglo-Saxon Protestant." The KKK hates Jews and Catholics almost as much as black folks. Absolutely; the entire definition of "white" has shifted and changed so much over the centuries that it's dizzying to try to figure out what it ever meant in the first place. Plus we can get into the anti-Chinese labor movement in the West in the 19th century, the anti-Irish politics of the Eastern cities a few decades before that, etc. African-Americans tend to get the shortest end of the stick because of the awfulness of how they were mostly brought over to the New World in the first place, and then the centuries of enforced poverty and lack of opportunity that followed, and that have really only JUST begun to ease up in very recent times, and even then at an absolutely glacial pace. We offered to send the freedmen back so that they would not have to deal with the racism and stand a better chance at life away from those that which to keep them enslaved and get them out of society so that we dont have to deal with them any more /American Colonization Society
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