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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 3:22:35 GMT -5
I was thinking this reading last week's results, and this week's raises it as an even better question - why didn't Heyman just stay home, play some Scribblenauts or something, and be content with Lesnar maiming Cena again when the time comes for it? Why walk into a hostage situation you've been told about in advance?
Also, why are people supposed to be on Cena's side here?
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Post by Speedy Cerviche on Sept 16, 2014 4:17:55 GMT -5
He didn't want to let the bully win, I guess. Staying home would be giving up.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 4:36:18 GMT -5
He didn't want to let the bully win, I guess. Staying home would be giving up. *Please* let creative run with that. I mean, fgs, Cena did the EXACT SAME THING that Rusev did to Zeb. And Zeb is a ***damned war veteran who has done nothing but talk **** about immigrants since he showed up on TV. When one of said immigrants kicks his xenophobic arse, that's not exactly a surprise. Threatening to beat up (and then halfway following through with it) a middle-aged non-wrestler because his much bigger, stronger friend kicked your ass (FAIRLY) is NOT SOMETHING THE AUDIENCE SHOULD BE CHEERING FOR!!! What is Heyman SUPPOSED to say? "My client, Brock Lesnar, is probably going to lose this match. Cena is the face of the WWE and Brock will have very little to no chance at winning, so he should maybe just donate the last of his paycheck to charity and go away again."? No. Heyman is Lesnar's hype man. He builds HYPE for his MAN. But yes, Cena('s character), by all means, hold your enemy's only friend HOSTAGE. That is TOTALLY what the good guy would do in this situation. Hell, if the ACTUAL Superman did that, readers wouldn't even go for it. Superman: Lex Luthor! You cleaned my clock good when last we fought! So I'm going to kick your dog around until you show up to face me again! Lesnar was GOING to be there at the PPV. It's not like he was ducking you, genius. He didn't try to weasel out of the match. He just didn't feel like listening to you give the same bulldirt speech/merch flashing you've done every Monday for the last 10 years. Hell, *I* didn't feel like watching it and *I* didn't have to get on a plane and fly to the arena to do so. Plus, you know, you were pretty obviously waiting to jump the guy. Which, again, totally a "heroic" thing to do to your opponent 6 days before your title match. Think about that for a second. If Brock Lesnar had jumped John Cena days before the match, the announcers would be screaming to the heavens "LESNAR KNOWS HE CAN'T WIN IN A FAIR FIGHT, SO HE'S TRYING TO TAKE CENA OUT NOW! HE DOESN'T WANT CENA TO MAKE IT TO THE PPV!" But because it's John Cena, it's perfectly okay! ... WWE. Please stop making me dislike the guy who has spent every day of the last decade either trying to entertain me, crippling himself, or donating his time to help sick kids, wounded veterans, and the company that I've been a fan of most of my life. Because I would REALLY like to like that guy! |
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Sept 16, 2014 4:50:35 GMT -5
This one is actually pretty easy to answer. He wanted to compromise Cena's integrity, and was willing to take some physical pain to see it done.
The question I have is why Cena needed to hit Heyman with his fist to cross this line. Apparently, being capable of entrapment and dragging a man by his collar to the ring aren't dark enough offenses.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 6:04:13 GMT -5
This one is actually pretty easy to answer. He wanted to compromise Cena's integrity, and was willing to take some physical pain to see it done. The question I have is why Cena needed to hit Heyman with his fist to cross this line. Apparently, being capable of entrapment and dragging a man by his collar to the ring aren't dark enough offenses. There seems to be an idea that Cena needs to be a paragon to not be a hypocrite. I don't see why. Paul Heyman has been tormenting babyfaces for over 25 years, ordering gang attacks and having bones broken, trying to end the careers of fan favorites. He's been manhandled by people bigger and meaner. Want proof? Search Brock Lesnar vs Paul Heyman Steel Cage Match on Youtube to see Brock himself beating up and F-5ing Heyman I miss the days when Hogan or Warrior or Bossman would kick the asses of Heenan and JImmy Hart and others and fans would cheer because they were the ones behind all the attacks they had to go through |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 6:13:06 GMT -5
This one is actually pretty easy to answer. He wanted to compromise Cena's integrity, and was willing to take some physical pain to see it done. The question I have is why Cena needed to hit Heyman with his fist to cross this line. Apparently, being capable of entrapment and dragging a man by his collar to the ring aren't dark enough offenses. There seems to be an idea that Cena needs to be a paragon to not be a hypocrite. I don't see why. Paul Heyman has been tormenting babyfaces for over 25 years, ordering gang attacks and having bones broken, trying to end the careers of fan favorites. He's been manhandled by people bigger and meaner. Want proof? Search Brock Lesnar vs Paul Heyman Steel Cage Match on Youtube to see Brock himself beating up and F-5ing Heyman I miss the days when Hogan or Warrior or Bossman would kick the asses of Heenan and JImmy Hart and others and fans would cheer because they were the ones behind all the attacks they had to go through The issue is not in Cena going after Heyman. Rather, it was threatening him the week before to goad Lesnar into showing up solely so he could sneak attack him, all while acting like Lesnar stole his title and has been dodging him while ignoring the truth of Brock beating him into a fine paste, spreading him on some toast, eating him, and crapping him back out. Cena comes off like a delusional cowardly heel. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 6:20:32 GMT -5
It'd have been different if it was just a spur of the moment thing where Cena lost his cool. This was a pre-meditated assault on a defenseless middle-aged man.
"Brock. Either face me (fall into my trap) on Raw next week, or I am going to beat the hell out of your friend." Heyman's not "behind" anything. Brock came back FOR Lesnar. Lesnar brought HIM back. The only thing, storyline-wise, that Lesnar does is HYPE Brock Lesnar. He's not Heenan. He's not Jimmy Hart. He's just Brock's friend and advocate.
Friend and advocate. Two words that can NEVER be used to describe John "made out with Zack Ryder's crush and slut-shamed her the next week" Cena.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 6:24:09 GMT -5
There seems to be an idea that Cena needs to be a paragon to not be a hypocrite. I don't see why. Paul Heyman has been tormenting babyfaces for over 25 years, ordering gang attacks and having bones broken, trying to end the careers of fan favorites. He's been manhandled by people bigger and meaner. Want proof? Search Brock Lesnar vs Paul Heyman Steel Cage Match on Youtube to see Brock himself beating up and F-5ing Heyman I miss the days when Hogan or Warrior or Bossman would kick the asses of Heenan and JImmy Hart and others and fans would cheer because they were the ones behind all the attacks they had to go through The issue is not in Cena going after Heyman. Rather, it was threatening him the week before to goad Lesnar into showing up solely so he could sneak attack him, all while acting like Lesnar stole his title and has been dodging him while ignoring the truth of Brock beating him into a fine paste, spreading him on some toast, eating him, and crapping him back out. Cena comes off like a delusional cowardly heel. Sneak attack? He stands in the middle of the ring and waited for Brock to come out. Some sneak attack. Brock knew he was there, knew where he was, knew he wanted to fight. Brock may not have been dodging him, but while Cena's champ 90% of the time anyone who wants a piece of him knows where he is and can confront him quite easily. Not so for Brock. |
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 16, 2014 6:34:20 GMT -5
There seems to be an idea that Cena needs to be a paragon to not be a hypocrite. I don't see why. Paul Heyman has been tormenting babyfaces for over 25 years, ordering gang attacks and having bones broken, trying to end the careers of fan favorites. He's been manhandled by people bigger and meaner. Want proof? Search Brock Lesnar vs Paul Heyman Steel Cage Match on Youtube to see Brock himself beating up and F-5ing Heyman Because from a narrative standpoint, John Cena is the paragon. He's a hero to the kids and does all this charity work, and, hell, remember the Wrestlemania match against Bray? With the "No John, you're better than this!" referee? The entire point of that feud was to show Cena being the unwavering good guy whose will can't be bent by the manipulative, evil cult leader. Heyman didn't talk John into taking him prisoner and holding him against his wall. Cena just did it. Because his character has no consistency and he can, depending on the day, be either the definition of purity and goodness, or capable of comedic sociopathy. But even when he pulls shit like this, he's still presented to us as someone who's above this. It's a problem. |
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Post by Speedy Cerviche on Sept 16, 2014 6:34:52 GMT -5
The issue is not in Cena going after Heyman. Rather, it was threatening him the week before to goad Lesnar into showing up solely so he could sneak attack him, all while acting like Lesnar stole his title and has been dodging him while ignoring the truth of Brock beating him into a fine paste, spreading him on some toast, eating him, and crapping him back out. Cena comes off like a delusional cowardly heel. Sneak attack? He stands in the middle of the ring and waited for Brock to come out. Some sneak attack. Brock knew he was there, knew where he was, knew he wanted to fight. Brock may not have been dodging him, but while Cena's champ 90% of the time anyone who wants a piece of him knows where he is and can confront him quite easily. Not so for Brock. He charged into the ring after being booted out and hit Brock from behind like a total puss. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 6:52:25 GMT -5
He charged into the ring after being booted out and hit Brock from behind like a total puss. Yeah. Cena attacked Lesnar before he cold even get through the ropes. Lesnar gave him a German for his troubles and was almost immediately hit FROM BEHIND by "paragon of virtue" John Cena. When the refs separated them, Lesnar didn't even fight back, but a DOZEN refs had to restrain Cena. And for WHAT? What the hell did Lesnar do to merit such insane hatred from John Cena? Boasted about how he was going to win...and then backed up his boast? Jeez. Really? By that logic, the Rock boasting that he was going "layeth the smacketh down" or Steve Austin promising to "stomp a mudhole in 'em" merits having their friends attacked and getting jumped from behind. Of course, if they WERE jumped from behind after coming out to save their friends...THEY WOULDN'T BE THE BAD GUY! |
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Post by wwefan71080 on Sept 16, 2014 7:06:42 GMT -5
He charged into the ring after being booted out and hit Brock from behind like a total puss. Yeah. Cena attacked Lesnar before he cold even get through the ropes. Lesnar gave him a German for his troubles and was almost immediately hit FROM BEHIND by "paragon of virtue" John Cena. When the refs separated them, Lesnar didn't even fight back, but a DOZEN refs had to restrain Cena. And for WHAT? What the hell did Lesnar do to merit such insane hatred from John Cena? Boasted about how he was going to win...and then backed up his boast? Jeez. Really? By that logic, the Rock boasting that he was going "layeth the smacketh down" or Steve Austin promising to "stomp a mudhole in 'em" merits having their friends attacked and getting jumped from behind. Of course, if they WERE jumped from behind after coming out to save their friends...THEY WOULDN'T BE THE BAD GUY! Cena was angered by Heyman calling insulting his mother, Cena's been insulted much worse and he was still smiling so why did he crack here. Bad storytelling |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 7:11:59 GMT -5
I'm more impressed that Heyman had the guts to insult the guy who'd just threatened, manhandled, and basically held him hostage.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 7:22:34 GMT -5
He charged into the ring after being booted out and hit Brock from behind like a total puss. Yeah. Cena attacked Lesnar before he cold even get through the ropes. Lesnar gave him a German for his troubles and was almost immediately hit FROM BEHIND by "paragon of virtue" John Cena. When the refs separated them, Lesnar didn't even fight back, but a DOZEN refs had to restrain Cena. And for WHAT? What the hell did Lesnar do to merit such insane hatred from John Cena? Boasted about how he was going to win...and then backed up his boast? Jeez. Really? By that logic, the Rock boasting that he was going "layeth the smacketh down" or Steve Austin promising to "stomp a mudhole in 'em" merits having their friends attacked and getting jumped from behind. Of course, if they WERE jumped from behind after coming out to save their friends...THEY WOULDN'T BE THE BAD GUY! he destroyed Cena's knee by F-5ing it into a ringpost years ago. When Lesnar returned Cena was in the ring and actually applauded. Brock acted like he wanted to shake Cena's hand then grabbed him in the F-5. He's also shown up unexpectedly at random times and broken people's arms, and Vince McMahon's hip he's shown he's completely untrustworthy and will attack at any time. |
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 7:23:21 GMT -5
I'm more impressed that Heyman had the guts to insult the guy who'd just threatened, manhandled, and basically held him hostage. Heyman's been beaten up by bigger and meaner guys. |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 7:28:30 GMT -5
Yeah. Cena attacked Lesnar before he cold even get through the ropes. Lesnar gave him a German for his troubles and was almost immediately hit FROM BEHIND by "paragon of virtue" John Cena. When the refs separated them, Lesnar didn't even fight back, but a DOZEN refs had to restrain Cena. And for WHAT? What the hell did Lesnar do to merit such insane hatred from John Cena? Boasted about how he was going to win...and then backed up his boast? Jeez. Really? By that logic, the Rock boasting that he was going "layeth the smacketh down" or Steve Austin promising to "stomp a mudhole in 'em" merits having their friends attacked and getting jumped from behind. Of course, if they WERE jumped from behind after coming out to save their friends...THEY WOULDN'T BE THE BAD GUY! he destroyed Cena's knee by F-5ing it into a ringpost years ago. When Lesnar returned Cena was in the ring and actually applauded. Brock acted like he wanted to shake Cena's hand then grabbed him in the F-5. He's also shown up unexpectedly at random times and broken people's arms, and Vince McMahon's hip he's shown he's completely untrustworthy and will attack at any time. Which has what to do with the current situation? The guy being groomed for the next TOP star spent the last two years as part of an ACTUAL GANG who beat the piss out of people in 3-on-one assaults. WWE assumes the Universe has the memory of an amnesiac goldfish. |
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 7:32:07 GMT -5
he destroyed Cena's knee by F-5ing it into a ringpost years ago. When Lesnar returned Cena was in the ring and actually applauded. Brock acted like he wanted to shake Cena's hand then grabbed him in the F-5. He's also shown up unexpectedly at random times and broken people's arms, and Vince McMahon's hip he's shown he's completely untrustworthy and will attack at any time. Which has what to do with the current situation? The guy being groomed for the next TOP star spent the last two years as part of an ACTUAL GANG who beat the piss out of people in 3-on-one assaults. WWE assumes the Universe has the memory of an amnesiac goldfish. you asked what Lesnar had done to warrant hatred from Cena. There is legit reason for Cena to hate Lesnar. And with Lesnar at least people don't assume that because without Lesnar's history he had no reason to get the title shot |
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Sept 16, 2014 7:37:45 GMT -5
Which has what to do with the current situation? The guy being groomed for the next TOP star spent the last two years as part of an ACTUAL GANG who beat the piss out of people in 3-on-one assaults. WWE assumes the Universe has the memory of an amnesiac goldfish. you asked what Lesnar had done to warrant hatred from Cena. There is legit reason for Cena to hate Lesnar. And with Lesnar at least people don't assume that because without Lesnar's history he had no reason to get the title shot You know, ol' Prof Smooth has taken a few shots to the head over the last decade or so, but wasn't Cena the legit, no joke, straight-up heel when he first got challenged Lesnar all those years ago? |
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Sept 16, 2014 7:59:54 GMT -5
you asked what Lesnar had done to warrant hatred from Cena. There is legit reason for Cena to hate Lesnar. And with Lesnar at least people don't assume that because without Lesnar's history he had no reason to get the title shot You know, ol' Prof Smooth has taken a few shots to the head over the last decade or so, but wasn't Cena the legit, no joke, straight-up heel when he first got challenged Lesnar all those years ago? yeah. Cena's supposed to purge himself of all emotions based on that period because of that? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 9:04:53 GMT -5
Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak.
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Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak. Because his client, Brock Lesnar, conquered the Streak.
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