BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Sept 17, 2014 20:49:32 GMT -5
Is this a legit reasoning behind Austin's success? I feel like I hear Stephanie pitch this line every single time they mention Austin (and McMahon) or the Attitude Era in general. I was under the impression that people liked Stone Cold and his feud with McMahon because he as a badass who didn't give any f***s. But apparently it's because everyone was living through him having to deal with a bad boss? What?
I grew up during the Attitude Era; people I knew liked Stone Cold because of who he was, not specifically just what he was doing. Am I just remembering things wrong or is this another DX INVADES WCW TURNED THE TIDES thing where it's retold so many times that it has become accepted?
Maybe I was too young to get it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 20:52:20 GMT -5
It was a time where mainstream media had yet to become completely afraid of the idea of people hating big businesses guts, before people in every blue collar realm were fired for speaking out about how crap their job was/how unjust and jerkwise their employers were in some way, and all the other such things.
Nowadays you get less of that, hell, look at action movies, once upon a time you were told to suspect EVERYONE in power, now your heroes work for the people in power etc. Same with the WWE. Now everyone's told to support 'em and be happy such capable people are in control.
EDIT: I just re-read this post and it sort of came off as political, but I mean strictly in terms of films/TV/media, not in terms of anything else.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 17, 2014 20:55:32 GMT -5
It was a time where mainstream media had yet to become completely afraid of the idea of people hating big businesses guts, before people in every blue collar realm were fired for speaking out about how crap their job was/how unjust and jerkwise their employers were in some way, and all the other such things. Nowadays you get less of that, hell, look at action movies, once upon a time you were told to suspect EVERYONE in power, now your heroes work for the people in power etc. Same with the WWE. Now everyone's told to support 'em and be happy such capable people are in control. This. Each era has a propaganda reset, then people figure out the lies and corruption all over again and mainstream follows suit.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 17, 2014 20:57:13 GMT -5
Back then, WWE had no problem portraying the corporate establishment as being corrupt and worthy of getting its ass kicked.
These days, the corporation is never wrong, when challenged it will portray itself as the victim, and it always has a back up plan. Opposition is framed as being ungrateful, and the tone reflects real world management attitudes of "hey, we're pissing on ya, but just be thankful you even have a job at all"
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 20:59:18 GMT -5
I get the sentiment, but I would never beat up my boss. She looks and acts like Shirley from Community, which means that she is mostly a sweetheart but sometimes passive aggressive. She doesn't deserve a stunner though.
I did very much relate to a guy doing whatever the hell he wanted though and worrying about the consequences of his actions at a later time.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 21:04:12 GMT -5
Definetly feels like a time where that type of attitude is needed.
Makes me worrie more for Ambrose who has that blue collar give no craps feel to his character and if WWE is gonna set the brick wall in front of him.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Sept 17, 2014 21:06:20 GMT -5
What really sucks is nowadays, most of the roster are gutless cowards who won't stand up for themselves, because they might get fired (on tv of course, though in real life could be argued as well). I remember last year there was a deal where the whole roster was standing around like schmucks while Daniel Bryan fought against the Authority. I mean, god damn, I don't think Al Snow back during the Attitude Era wouldn't have sat by and got brow beaten by the Corporation. One positive of the attitude era was all the corporate suck ups were with the one group in the Corporation. Now, that had its own problems with everyone standing in the background with their thumbs up their asses, but they made sure to keep everyone separate.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 21:10:29 GMT -5
What really sucks is nowadays, most of the roster are gutless cowards who won't stand up for themselves, because they might get fired (on tv of course, though in real life could be argued as well). I remember last year there was a deal where the whole roster was standing around like schmucks while Daniel Bryan fought against the Authority. I mean, god damn, I don't think Al Snow back during the Attitude Era wouldn't have sat by and got brow beaten by the Corporation. One positive of the attitude era was all the corporate suck ups were with the one group in the Corporation. Now, that had its own problems with everyone standing in the background with their thumbs up their asses, but they made sure to keep everyone separate. Maybe that's the reason Ambrose and Bryan seem to be so legit as kayfabe faces compared to Cena and Punk. Despite the fans knowing it's all fabricated the former guys seem so much like themselves, with never forcing catchphrases or awkward immature goofy humour (both of the latter two did that at several points, whether that's on creative or not is another discussion etc) so that when they come up against the neutral or heel authority figures they're cheered relentlessly. Two completely opposite personalities but both feel genuine/real and are worth supporting through highs and lows. Note: members of FAN, this isn't me knocking on Cena or Punk.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Sept 17, 2014 22:12:07 GMT -5
probably not. I was 12, I didn't even have a boss at the time. it's more "tough guy doesn't put up with shit from assholes" than anything else, and that's vicarious enough whether or not you have a boss you hate.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Sept 18, 2014 5:42:45 GMT -5
Let's be honest, who's boss HASN'T merged their company with a satanic cult and tried to crucify them.
Mine did.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 18, 2014 6:13:23 GMT -5
It wasn't just about vicarious trampled worker fantasies; the late 90s were a time where everyone had to be a gritty, badass anti-hero who did cool shit, even if it was the wrong thing to the right person. Vince was the villain, and "deserved" all the things that a cleaner face would never have considered doing. He had a lot of things to definitely make him relatable and certainly tapped into some power fantasies, but aside from immense success, there isn't much to set Stone Cold apart from a lot of the other major protagonists to come out of that time.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Sept 18, 2014 7:24:52 GMT -5
I know they came up with some kayfabe reasons for it, but the fact that Austin's boss couldn't just fire him made no sense even then
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Sept 18, 2014 7:26:13 GMT -5
But not everyone wants to put their boss through a table and break their back.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 18, 2014 12:21:04 GMT -5
I was too young to have a "boss" but back then (and to this day) I always thought kayfabe Austin was way out of line. At the beginning Vince tried to reason with him and some of the stuff Austin did was flat-out bullying!
Be A Star
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 18, 2014 12:21:57 GMT -5
I know they came up with some kayfabe reasons for it, but the fact that Austin's boss couldn't just fire him made no sense even then They got Mills Lane to intervene, which made even less sense
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Sept 18, 2014 12:24:17 GMT -5
What really sucks is nowadays, most of the roster are gutless cowards who won't stand up for themselves, because they might get fired (on tv of course, though in real life could be argued as well). I remember last year there was a deal where the whole roster was standing around like schmucks while Daniel Bryan fought against the Authority. I mean, god damn, I don't think Al Snow back during the Attitude Era wouldn't have sat by and got brow beaten by the Corporation. One positive of the attitude era was all the corporate suck ups were with the one group in the Corporation. Now, that had its own problems with everyone standing in the background with their thumbs up their asses, but they made sure to keep everyone separate. Consider the following...you can argue, that the Corporation back then was under the threat of guys jumping to WCW or ECW and so that wouldn't fit well with their plan. So babyfaces had more leverage then. Nowadays we live in a world where the economy is worse. There is no competition in WWE's eyes and on top of that corporations are more protected than ever.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternally Confused
Posts: 13,481
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Post by Malcolm on Sept 18, 2014 12:30:43 GMT -5
My boss was a pretty cool guy. I never wanted to beat him up. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever had any problems with any authority figures(the rich fat cats on the other hand is another story). Most of my problems stemmed from my peers...
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 18, 2014 13:46:24 GMT -5
I was too young to have a "boss" but back then (and to this day) I always thought kayfabe Austin was way out of line. At the beginning Vince tried to reason with him and some of the stuff Austin did was flat-out bullying! Be A Star It all stemmed from the story that Austin had been held back, misused and told he'd never make it everywhere he'd been to a prejudicial degree, so when he finally did make it in WWF, on his own (kayfabe) and on his own terms, suddenly, here's Vince trying to change that and mold him into an annoying smiling jackass (sound familiar?) who would be the clean, controllable, marketed face of the company -- but entirely on Vince's own terms. Austin balked at this, fought back, and basically spent the next couple of years fighting uphill against a corrupt corporate suit who now wanted to humble Austin for no other reason other than spite and ego because he refused to conform. Vince deserved every beating he got, because he had the power all along to f*** off and let Austin be Austin (kayfabe). And it was very much indicative of the world and its thought process at the time before post 9/11 brainwashed everyone into thinking authority should never be questioned, and those in it always know best. Which as history will tell you for hundreds of years everywhere is bullshit.
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Bobeddy
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Made a Terrible Mistake
Posts: 15,151
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Post by Bobeddy on Sept 18, 2014 13:54:49 GMT -5
I know they came up with some kayfabe reasons for it, but the fact that Austin's boss couldn't just fire him made no sense even then I always thought that initially Vince wouldn't fire Austin because he was making them too much money to let him go and thought he could somehow force Austin to be the wrestler he wanted him to be. Then after a while it became, "I COULD fire you but dammit I won't because after all the crap you've put me through I'm going to get the last laugh and I want to make sure everyone sees me publicly destroy you". At least that's how 10 year old me read things.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 13:58:15 GMT -5
It seems the zeitgeist seems to have shifted recently where people have a more affection towards corporations than they did in 1996-2000. So the idea of the "boss" being evil is kind of outdated, but at the time it definitely rang true with a lot of the corporate culture of the time. Office Space, for example.
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