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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 18, 2014 13:59:48 GMT -5
I was too young to have a "boss" but back then (and to this day) I always thought kayfabe Austin was way out of line. At the beginning Vince tried to reason with him and some of the stuff Austin did was flat-out bullying! Be A Star It all stemmed from the story that Austin had been held back, misused and told he'd never make it everywhere he'd been to a prejudicial degree, so when he finally did make it in WWF, on his own (kayfabe) and on his own terms, suddenly, here's Vince trying to change that and mold him into an annoying smiling jackass (sound familiar?) who would be the clean, controllable, marketed face of the company -- but entirely on Vince's own terms. Austin balked at this, fought back, and basically spent the next couple of years fighting uphill against a corrupt corporate suit who now wanted to humble Austin for no other reason other than spite and ego because he refused to conform. Vince deserved every beating he got, because he had the power all along to f*** off and let Austin be Austin (kayfabe). And it was very much indicative of the world and its thought process at the time before post 9/11 brainwashed everyone into thinking authority should never be questioned, and those in it always know best. Which as history will tell you for hundreds of years everywhere is bullshit. But it's Vince's company. Even as a child that bugged me. Kayfabe Vince (not real Vince) is entitled to want a better role model than Austin for his top star. It's his money and his show and Austin needed him, not the other way round (still purely kayfabe here). At the beginning he was quite reasonable with Austin, who always reacted violently and proving Vince's point. Austin is in my top three favourite wrestlers ever but I was nearly always on Vince's side. I was on his side with the Punk situation in 2011, too. |
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Post by Cela on Sept 18, 2014 14:17:07 GMT -5
I do Jiu-Jitsu with my boss, it's nice.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Sept 18, 2014 14:21:59 GMT -5
It seems the zeitgeist seems to have shifted recently where people have a more affection towards corporations than they did in 1996-2000. So the idea of the "boss" being evil is kind of outdated, but at the time it definitely rang true with a lot of the corporate culture of the time. Office Space, for example. That was before people realized no matter how much rage against it, you will always be part of the machine. |
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Post by willywonka666 on Sept 18, 2014 14:23:13 GMT -5
I seem to recall Ross or someone mentioning it at the time, so that was a part of it, yes
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 18, 2014 14:24:17 GMT -5
It all stemmed from the story that Austin had been held back, misused and told he'd never make it everywhere he'd been to a prejudicial degree, so when he finally did make it in WWF, on his own (kayfabe) and on his own terms, suddenly, here's Vince trying to change that and mold him into an annoying smiling jackass (sound familiar?) who would be the clean, controllable, marketed face of the company -- but entirely on Vince's own terms. Austin balked at this, fought back, and basically spent the next couple of years fighting uphill against a corrupt corporate suit who now wanted to humble Austin for no other reason other than spite and ego because he refused to conform. Vince deserved every beating he got, because he had the power all along to f*** off and let Austin be Austin (kayfabe). And it was very much indicative of the world and its thought process at the time before post 9/11 brainwashed everyone into thinking authority should never be questioned, and those in it always know best. Which as history will tell you for hundreds of years everywhere is bullshit. But it's Vince's company. Even as a child that bugged me. Kayfabe Vince (not real Vince) is entitled to want a better role model than Austin for his top star. It's his money and his show and Austin needed him, not the other way round (still purely kayfabe here). At the beginning he was quite reasonable with Austin, who always reacted violently and proving Vince's point. Austin is in my top three favourite wrestlers ever but I was nearly always on Vince's side. I was on his side with the Punk situation in 2011, too. At the time, the company was structured as a sports league, and Austin was his best talent, and most popular guy. Just because you "own" something doesn't give you the right to force your personal ideals and philosophies on employees so long as they are doing their job optimally --which Austin was. It wasn't as if Austin was costing the company money or hindering the system. He was driving it. And he was targeted by Vince, because he would not conform to Vince's preferred ideals and bend to his will. It had nothing to do with business and everything to do with control. That was the crux of the issue. And it was that kind of rotten totalitarian thinking that Vince (the character) had that led to the advent of Unions and labor laws in the first place. There needs to be limits to power, and that which you can lord over others. As for Punk, he was more making a stand against a corrupt system. Under normal circumstances, he'd be seen as a greedy shit, but 15+ years of canon backed up his position that the McMahons were rotten, prejudicial and cliquish in their decision making, and that unless he bucked their flawed rules and system, he would never get the actual run he had earned and deserved in his mind by doing his job better than everyone else. I took his side for no other reason than the McMahon characters are established rotten pieces of shit with years of perpetrating atrocities on talent and even each other, so their suffering meant zero, and was actually deserved. Punk legit won the WWE title despite machinations. And had he left (kayfabe) forever with the belt it would have looked good on Vince, because Vince's intentions were to screw Punk over regardless. Vince was the bad guy here in both instances. Like Dick Jones in Robo Cop. And you're not supposed to cry for Dick when he goes out the window. |
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,196
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Sept 18, 2014 14:26:39 GMT -5
Remember If your boss is about to fire you Slap him, RKO him than kick him in the skull before he can finish his sentence  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 14:34:34 GMT -5
I became a fan of Austin's after he said one line, and it wasn't "Austin 3:16". I'm not sure of the year exactly, maybe late-96 or early-97, when Austin tried to talk on the mic but it didn't work. He then takes another (functioning) mic from a production guy and says something to the effect of "you're going to give me a piece of equipment that works or I'll have to whip your ass". His delivery was awesome and bad ass. That's what got Austin over more than anything. Amazing mic skills, and his character was just completely different from the norm in wrestling. The mid/late-90's saw a change in society and Austin fit that perfectly. The Vince angle was just icing on the cake, but he was over like crazy well before then.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 14:36:01 GMT -5
It seems the zeitgeist seems to have shifted recently where people have a more affection towards corporations than they did in 1996-2000. So the idea of the "boss" being evil is kind of outdated, but at the time it definitely rang true with a lot of the corporate culture of the time. Office Space, for example. That was before people realized no matter how much rage against it, you will always be part of the machine. Despite all our rage, we're still just a rat in a cage. |
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 18, 2014 16:02:55 GMT -5
But it's Vince's company. Even as a child that bugged me. Kayfabe Vince (not real Vince) is entitled to want a better role model than Austin for his top star. It's his money and his show and Austin needed him, not the other way round (still purely kayfabe here). At the beginning he was quite reasonable with Austin, who always reacted violently and proving Vince's point. Austin is in my top three favourite wrestlers ever but I was nearly always on Vince's side. I was on his side with the Punk situation in 2011, too. At the time, the company was structured as a sports league, and Austin was his best talent, and most popular guy. Just because you "own" something doesn't give you the right to force your personal ideals and philosophies on employees so long as they are doing their job optimally --which Austin was. It wasn't as if Austin was costing the company money or hindering the system. He was driving it. And he was targeted by Vince, because he would not conform to Vince's preferred ideals and bend to his will. It had nothing to do with business and everything to do with control. That was the crux of the issue. And it was that kind of rotten totalitarian thinking that Vince (the character) had that led to the advent of Unions and labor laws in the first place. There needs to be limits to power, and that which you can lord over others. As for Punk, he was more making a stand against a corrupt system. Under normal circumstances, he'd be seen as a greedy shit, but 15+ years of canon backed up his position that the McMahons were rotten, prejudicial and cliquish in their decision making, and that unless he bucked their flawed rules and system, he would never get the actual run he had earned and deserved in his mind by doing his job better than everyone else. I took his side for no other reason than the McMahon characters are established rotten pieces of shit with years of perpetrating atrocities on talent and even each other, so their suffering meant zero, and was actually deserved. Punk legit won the WWE title despite machinations. And had he left (kayfabe) forever with the belt it would have looked good on Vince, because Vince's intentions were to screw Punk over regardless. Vince was the bad guy here in both instances. Like Dick Jones in Robo Cop. And you're not supposed to cry for Dick when he goes out the window. I loved the CM Punk story, but I see that a little bit differently. I saw him, in kayfabe, as a guy who was bitter that he didn't get the big run and push. He was raging against the machine for his own self-interest, not necessarily for the good of the company or the audience. With Stone Cold, you didn't get that sense at all. After all, Austin would later go on to help Mankind pin the Rock for the title. I couldn't imagine Summer Of Punk Guy doing the same thing for Daniel Bryan. |
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 18, 2014 16:11:29 GMT -5
At the time, the company was structured as a sports league, and Austin was his best talent, and most popular guy. Just because you "own" something doesn't give you the right to force your personal ideals and philosophies on employees so long as they are doing their job optimally --which Austin was. It wasn't as if Austin was costing the company money or hindering the system. He was driving it. And he was targeted by Vince, because he would not conform to Vince's preferred ideals and bend to his will. It had nothing to do with business and everything to do with control. That was the crux of the issue. And it was that kind of rotten totalitarian thinking that Vince (the character) had that led to the advent of Unions and labor laws in the first place. There needs to be limits to power, and that which you can lord over others. As for Punk, he was more making a stand against a corrupt system. Under normal circumstances, he'd be seen as a greedy shit, but 15+ years of canon backed up his position that the McMahons were rotten, prejudicial and cliquish in their decision making, and that unless he bucked their flawed rules and system, he would never get the actual run he had earned and deserved in his mind by doing his job better than everyone else. I took his side for no other reason than the McMahon characters are established rotten pieces of shit with years of perpetrating atrocities on talent and even each other, so their suffering meant zero, and was actually deserved. Punk legit won the WWE title despite machinations. And had he left (kayfabe) forever with the belt it would have looked good on Vince, because Vince's intentions were to screw Punk over regardless. Vince was the bad guy here in both instances. Like Dick Jones in Robo Cop. And you're not supposed to cry for Dick when he goes out the window. I loved the CM Punk story, but I see that a little bit differently. I saw him, in kayfabe, as a guy who was bitter that he didn't get the big run and push. He was raging against the machine for his own self-interest, not necessarily for the good of the company or the audience. With Stone Cold, you didn't get that sense at all. After all, Austin would later go on to help Mankind pin the Rock for the title. I couldn't imagine Summer Of Punk Guy doing the same thing for Daniel Bryan. I agree, Punk was entirely self-serving, which Austin wasn't necessarily. If I were Vince I would have wanted Punk stopped, too! I also didn't like Punk hating "this idea that Cena is the best". Surely in kayfabe terms Cena is the best, otherwise why has he been champion so many times? Blurring the lines in wrestling is a pet peeve of mine though. |
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Post by Lazy peon on Sept 18, 2014 16:25:26 GMT -5
But not everyone wants to put their boss through a table and break their back. Yes they do. #bosstoss |
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,628
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Post by unc40 on Sept 18, 2014 17:27:12 GMT -5
This reminds of the 30 for 30 episode about the Fab 5 when Jalen Rose talks about how his teammates were rebellious and the NCAA hating them for it. My thought was "No Jalen, all your doing is making the NCAA a ton of money." I always thought Vince should have told Austin "Go ahead and act like a bad ass. Interrupt matches, flip off people and use foul language because for ever bad ass action you take I hear the clinging of a cash register drawer opening which is putting more money in my already big pile of cash." Then Vince would walk off laughing.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
Blanket burrito season is back, and I never left the blankets
Posts: 12,834
Member is Online
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Sept 19, 2014 9:19:10 GMT -5
This reminds of the 30 for 30 episode about the Fab 5 when Jalen Rose talks about how his teammates were rebellious and the NCAA hating them for it. My thought was "No Jalen, all your doing is making the NCAA a ton of money." I always thought Vince should have told Austin "Go ahead and act like a bad ass. Interrupt matches, flip off people and use foul language because for ever bad ass action you take I hear the clinging of a cash register drawer opening which is putting more money in my already big pile of cash." Then Vince would walk off laughing. And this right here describes why Cena never clicked as anti-authority - he was always anti-authority in a way that benefited the people with money. "Rebelling in a non-threatening way," to quote MST3K's parody of Mentos ads. People had worked out this particular bit of meta-logic and couldn't take characters like this seriously. Even Bryan's anti-authority thing clicked more because it was (shockingly, probably unintentionally) analogous to millenial vs. baby boomer conflicts. Bryan was fighting for the right to DO HIS JOB PROPERLY. Socially, that's a fascinating generational difference from Austin. |
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Post by baerrtt on Sept 19, 2014 9:27:34 GMT -5
At the time, the company was structured as a sports league, and Austin was his best talent, and most popular guy. Just because you "own" something doesn't give you the right to force your personal ideals and philosophies on employees so long as they are doing their job optimally --which Austin was. It wasn't as if Austin was costing the company money or hindering the system. He was driving it. And he was targeted by Vince, because he would not conform to Vince's preferred ideals and bend to his will. It had nothing to do with business and everything to do with control. That was the crux of the issue. And it was that kind of rotten totalitarian thinking that Vince (the character) had that led to the advent of Unions and labor laws in the first place. There needs to be limits to power, and that which you can lord over others. As for Punk, he was more making a stand against a corrupt system. Under normal circumstances, he'd be seen as a greedy shit, but 15+ years of canon backed up his position that the McMahons were rotten, prejudicial and cliquish in their decision making, and that unless he bucked their flawed rules and system, he would never get the actual run he had earned and deserved in his mind by doing his job better than everyone else. I took his side for no other reason than the McMahon characters are established rotten pieces of shit with years of perpetrating atrocities on talent and even each other, so their suffering meant zero, and was actually deserved. Punk legit won the WWE title despite machinations. And had he left (kayfabe) forever with the belt it would have looked good on Vince, because Vince's intentions were to screw Punk over regardless. Vince was the bad guy here in both instances. Like Dick Jones in Robo Cop. And you're not supposed to cry for Dick when he goes out the window. I loved the CM Punk story, but I see that a little bit differently. I saw him, in kayfabe, as a guy who was bitter that he didn't get the big run and push. He was raging against the machine for his own self-interest, not necessarily for the good of the company or the audience. With Stone Cold, you didn't get that sense at all. After all, Austin would later go on to help Mankind pin the Rock for the title. I couldn't imagine Summer Of Punk Guy doing the same thing for Daniel Bryan. Austin was, kayfabe, just as self serving as Punk was imo the only difference being that Stone Cold was a far more likeable character. The whole persona was born out of Steve's later treatment in WCW and initial one in the WWF where he wasn't seen as a main eventer and the fact that he never had concrete allies shows this. |
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
Posts: 12,470 
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Sept 19, 2014 11:29:30 GMT -5
But what if you were self-employed?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 19, 2014 14:12:10 GMT -5
But what if you were self-employed? Self-loathing. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 14:20:05 GMT -5
Let's be honest, who's boss HASN'T merged their company with a satanic cult and tried to crucify them. Mine did.  |
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,011
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Post by nate5054 on Sept 20, 2014 4:52:42 GMT -5
Is this a legit reasoning behind Austin's success? I feel like I hear Stephanie pitch this line every single time they mention Austin (and McMahon) or the Attitude Era in general. I was under the impression that people liked Stone Cold and his feud with McMahon because he as a badass who didn't give any f***s. But apparently it's because everyone was living through him having to deal with a bad boss? What? I grew up during the Attitude Era; people I knew liked Stone Cold because of who he was, not specifically just what he was doing. Am I just remembering things wrong or is this another DX INVADES WCW TURNED THE TIDES thing where it's retold so many times that it has become accepted? Maybe I was too young to get it. I don't think it was the major reason for his success or the success of the feud. Sure, just about everyone who has held a handful of jobs in their life probably has hated a boss or two, so that part is identifiable. But Austin got over due to his insane charisma/mic skills and the fact that he was a total badass during a time where people were suck of the uber Hogan type good guy. |
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,510
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Post by 67 more on Sept 20, 2014 10:03:21 GMT -5
At the moment, I work for a small business and my boss has become one of my best friends. But then, I am his sole employee.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 20, 2014 12:47:04 GMT -5
I work for a major corporation and have to fight being taken advantage of on a regular basis. I completely relate with the Austin and Punk characters (and Punk as a real guy for that matter).
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