mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Sept 22, 2014 13:11:10 GMT -5
Actually I read it as "We can't have guys interfering and ruining our money match. So let's put them in the big cage with a top to make sure we get a decisive winner. And arent we lucky that the pay per view themed after this very match concept is next month?" The unfortunate thing is...the interference thing doesn't work...it didn't even work during the first HIAC. But I suppose we're not supposed to remember that.
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Post by Robbymac on Sept 22, 2014 13:12:14 GMT -5
HHH was a heel who we know had no basis for requesting a rematch. He had to practically beg. A babyface can't beg for a match he doesn't deserve. It would totally fit his WWE character to hold the entire show hostage and beat a bunch of innocent wrestlers up while he's demanding a rematch... and somehow be portrayed as a heroic babyface the entire time. No, it wouldn't. Can you name one instance where John Cena ever acted in this manner after being defeated cleanly once? Nevermind that in this scenario it happens twice.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 22, 2014 13:13:09 GMT -5
Tonight will be interesting. I wonder whether WWE will continue to push the "Lesnar was about to tap!" narrative?
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Sept 22, 2014 13:13:48 GMT -5
It would totally fit his WWE character to hold the entire show hostage and beat a bunch of innocent wrestlers up while he's demanding a rematch... and somehow be portrayed as a heroic babyface the entire time. No, it wouldn't. Can you name one instance where John Cena ever acted in this manner after being defeated cleanly once? Nevermind that in this scenario it happens twice. Never give up. Never surrender. Cena's character will never give up trying to fight Lesnar until he wins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 13:14:28 GMT -5
Actually I read it as "We can't have guys interfering and ruining our money match. So let's put them in the big cage with a top to make sure we get a decisive winner. And arent we lucky that the pay per view themed after this very match concept is next month?" The unfortunate thing is...the interference thing doesn't work...it didn't even work during the first HIAC. But I suppose we're not supposed to remember that. Come on, when has there ever been interference in Hell in a Cell? Besides Taker / Michaels, Taker & Austin / Kane & Mankind, Mankind / Kane, Triple H / Cactus Jack, the Armageddon one, Lesnar / Taker, Batista / Triple H, Undertaker / Orton, Batista / Taker, Kane / Taker, Alberto / Cena / Punk, Punk / Ryback, and Orton / Bryan?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 22, 2014 13:17:18 GMT -5
Can you name one instance where John Cena ever acted in this manner after being defeated cleanly once? Nevermind that in this scenario it happens twice. I can't remember the exact scenario, but there was that time when he and Orton beat the "entire roster" by themselves. That in itself was overindulgent on what we are to expect out of Cena or even Orton.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Sept 22, 2014 13:25:37 GMT -5
Tonight will be interesting. I wonder whether WWE will continue to push the "Lesnar was about to tap!" narrative? I think they'll drop it since the commentators suddenly stopped mentioning it last night (because Cena had to release the hold 'cause Brock wasn't tapping to hit a 4th AA). They'll probably use the "was he about to be pinned?" narrative instead. All I know is, the commentators were annoying as shit last night, and it had Vince's grimy fingerprints all over it. "Mention that Cena would have probably won! By tapping! By tapping! Or by pin! Do it, motherf***ers! Ahhhhhh!" HHH then sits in the corner shaking his head, drowning his anger by booking a better executed card for the next NXT show.
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Post by Hypnosis on Sept 22, 2014 13:27:10 GMT -5
I read the thread title in Vince's voice.
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Post by The Tee Why on Sept 22, 2014 13:33:28 GMT -5
I always find it hilarious when people claim they aren't watching anymore.
SO DONT! Wrestling is one of the only shows people can continuously claim they're never watching it again and then the next night during RAW theyre in the thread. I like to think those people are held captive by terrorists and the one thing theyre forced to do is watch wrestling, seriously there's plenty of other things on TV to watch, movies to watch, videogames, anything else. IF you dont have a hobby, get one, if wrestling is causing you that much grief.
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Post by Robbymac on Sept 22, 2014 13:42:58 GMT -5
Can you name one instance where John Cena ever acted in this manner after being defeated cleanly once? Nevermind that in this scenario it happens twice. I can't remember the exact scenario, but there was that time when he and Orton beat the "entire roster" by themselves. That in itself was overindulgent on what we are to expect out of Cena or even Orton. They were fighting heels for no particular reason. Stupid? Absolutely. But not a character contradiction
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Post by hossfan on Sept 22, 2014 13:44:34 GMT -5
Actually, since the goal last night was to get Brock vs. Cena at Hell in the Cell, the finish wasn't designed to protect John, but Lesnar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 14:07:31 GMT -5
So I've had a day to sleep on it...ending with a DQ but with Cena "about to win" is such a terrible, back to square one way of booking. It shouldn't be defended.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Sept 22, 2014 14:12:31 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be forgetting Lesnar got hit with 3 or 4 AAs, was put in the STF for a long long time, got hit with a curbstomp and 30 seconds later he was up to drop Cena with an F-5 and stand tall as the PPV went off the air.
Yeah, he looked so weak.
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Crimson
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Thank you DWade
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Post by Crimson on Sept 22, 2014 14:16:04 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be forgetting Lesnar got hit with 3 or 4 AAs, was put in the STF for a long long time, got hit with a curbstomp and 30 seconds later he was up to drop Cena with an F-5 and stand tall as the PPV went off the air. Yeah, he looked so weak. Seriously, the ending was bogus, but considering Lesnar literally tanked everything Cena threw at him, I don't know how anyone can say Lesnar looked weak. This wasn't exactly Lesnar/Triple H or Lesnar/Punk where he needed Heyman to interfere on his behalf.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 22, 2014 14:16:57 GMT -5
I can't remember the exact scenario, but there was that time when he and Orton beat the "entire roster" by themselves. That in itself was overindulgent on what we are to expect out of Cena or even Orton. They were fighting heels for no particular reason. Stupid? Absolutely. But not a character contradiction Certainly not, but pointless roster destruction doesn't necessarily compel me to care about the future circumstances of that character. You're not supposed to hit reset on a character any time they're given something to do. Everyone seems to be forgetting Lesnar got hit with 3 or 4 AAs, was put in the STF for a long long time, got hit with a curbstomp and 30 seconds later he was up to drop Cena with an F-5 and stand tall as the PPV went off the air. Yeah, he looked so weak. And when they go back to recap things, they will make no mention of Brock standing tall at the end. The narrative given by the commentary is so contradictory compared to what we see happening at that exact moment. What we're going to get tonight is "how close" Cena was to winning before Rollins screwed him out of it.
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Post by Robbymac on Sept 22, 2014 14:29:08 GMT -5
So I've had a day to sleep on it...ending with a DQ but with Cena "about to win" is such a terrible, back to square one way of booking. It shouldn't be defended. It was more of a "Did Cena have him beat, or was Brock gonna kick out? Tune in October 26 to find out!" Finish (By the way I'm still convinced the answer to that is going to be a decisive Lesnar win) How is keeping the belt on Brock "back to square one" If Cena was ending this feud with the title they'd have went ahead and had him win last night.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 14:33:45 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be forgetting Lesnar got hit with 3 or 4 AAs, was put in the STF for a long long time, got hit with a curbstomp and 30 seconds later he was up to drop Cena with an F-5 and stand tall as the PPV went off the air. Yeah, he looked so weak. Well yeah...sounds ike he got his ass kcked pretty good from what you're saying. You didn't hear the lead announcer, thus canon in human form, shouting about how Cena was going to win if Rollins didn't interfere? Brock had to win convincingly. If they wanted this cell match so bad, fine save Cena's rematch for October instead of shoving him in there at NoC. And, if your PPV gimmick is f***ing up your plans because you don't plan far enough ahead, change the PPV> They did this awesome, unexpected thing last month and totally negated it the next. Brock came out of this show less special, thus whoever takes the title from him eventually looks less special. It's garbage and is rightfully being called out.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 22, 2014 14:43:47 GMT -5
And, if your PPV gimmick is f***ing up your plans because you don't plan far enough ahead, change the PPV Or better yet, do away with gimmick PPVs and only save those gimmicks for when they're needed in the feud.
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RBD
Team Rocket
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Post by RBD on Sept 22, 2014 15:16:33 GMT -5
I think the bigger picture, though, is in order for anyone else to have a fighting chance fighting Brock Lesnar we need John Cena to open up the laws of what we can expect in terms of hope spots and offense. If Brock/Cena II was the last time they wrestled and Brock moved on from there we can't reasonably expect WWE to book, say, Roman Reigns, or better yet Dean Ambrose to have a fair shot at him. I know in our minds it doesn't matter but the reality is that if Brock kills Cena with ease, in the "WWE Universe" no one has even a remote possibility. The novelty of that match is that it's so unlike any match from top stars in WWE's history to see someone like John Cena get tossed around like that. If that dynamic persists it becomes less special. If that kind of match continues with guys like Ambrose or Rollins it really wouldn't look much different from Lesnar's squash matches in the early days. It's very likely though, also, that Lesnar will lose the belt to Cena before we even get these other contenders to take a shot at him, but in case they're actually gonna try giving Lesnar some fresh meat it's important to have Cena open him up somewhat so he can believably have competitive matches with other guys. It's not unreasonable to expect WWE to book somebody else on or above Cena's level. They just refuse to do so, to their detriment. In 'universe', WWE should be able to book just about anybody as a believable challenger. All they have to do is pick the right narrative and sell it. With characters like Ambrose and Reigns, who have been booked consistently and haven’t spent years haemorrhaging credibility in the midcard, this would require little effort. Play up how they differ from both Lesnar and Cena. Let's say with Ambrose, you play up with recklessness and his unpredictable nature; with Reigns, you play up his youth and his hunger for his first world championship. With both, you build up the fact that they are first time opponents for Brock. That is a zero-effort build; anybody watching the show could point to these characteristics as something that could be exploited in storyline. The only difficulty with booking opponents for Brock is that it requires WWE to allow somebody to look better than Cena. That, and WWE has achieved a special level of incompetence which enables them to screw up storylines that basically tell themselves. No natural story progression for us please, we're sports entertainment.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 22, 2014 15:48:11 GMT -5
It's not unreasonable to expect WWE to book somebody else on or above Cena's level. They just refuse to do so, to their detriment. In 'universe', WWE should be able to book just about anybody as a believable challenger. All they have to do is pick the right narrative and sell it. With characters like Ambrose and Reigns, who have been booked consistently and haven’t spent years haemorrhaging credibility in the midcard, this would require little effort. Play up how they differ from both Lesnar and Cena. Let's say with Ambrose, you play up with recklessness and his unpredictable nature; with Reigns, you play up his youth and his hunger for his first world championship. With both, you build up the fact that they are first time opponents for Brock. That is a zero-effort build; anybody watching the show could point to these characteristics as something that could be exploited in storyline. The only difficulty with booking opponents for Brock is that it requires WWE to allow somebody to look better than Cena. That, and WWE has achieved a special level of incompetence which enables them to screw up storylines that basically tell themselves. No natural story progression for us please, we're sports entertainment. And let's not act like WWE hasn't done it in the past, even if it was brief; Hogan/Warrior in 1990 Bret/Shawn in 1996/97 Austin/Rock in 2000/01 I guess you could argue that Orton has been the most consistently booked guy next to Cena, but a lot of that occurred while on another show or when Cena was out, but even so it's always been established that Cena was THE guy, whereas with the others, you could argue at what point who the top person was.
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