Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 0:51:32 GMT -5
Hope all ya'll brought your dancing shoes, 'cause we're going in circles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 0:54:55 GMT -5
I think Hogan's promo on Raw really spelled out the problem with all of this, when he had that, "Please, do something good, and go to the WWE Shop and buy something!" spiel. If you want to raise awareness and get people to help, you tell them to donate, not to pay you for merch you're keeping most of the proceeds from.
That being said, I find it kind of funny (I find it kind of sad, the dreams in which I'm dying...) that the guy on the roster who had cancer doesn't get a shirt for this.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,570
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Post by khali on Sept 30, 2014 0:56:17 GMT -5
It isn't just breast cancer that gets attention. Yes, it gets most of it. But it's not all if it. Not too long ago there was a huge Stand Up 2 Cancer simulcast on the major networks. That group is NOT about any specific type of cancer and they are still major. They even partnered with baseball to hold a league-wide event.
And yes, they sell merchandise too. They put Stand Up 2 Cancer on every conceivable item, with the money going to research. My dad wears his SU2C shirt a lot now, particularly when he goes to chemo. It isn't the shirt that makes him feel better while he's sick and fighting cancer. It is the message that goes along with it that helps him, along with the knowledge groups are providing help and support.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 30, 2014 1:27:59 GMT -5
I wonder how turning the forum pink or blue would go here.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 30, 2014 1:30:28 GMT -5
I wonder how turning the forum pink or blue would go here. Some people will think it's funny. Some people will think it's stupid. Others won't feel strongly either way.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Sept 30, 2014 9:57:29 GMT -5
Unrelated, but while browsing the link, I saw an "Eat, Sleep, Poop, Repeat" dog leash. As soon as I get a dog, its as good as bought.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Sept 30, 2014 10:54:36 GMT -5
I wonder how turning the forum pink or blue would go here. You know, I see your point and at the same time, I wonder why people prop up awareness charities. I shook my head at the Ice Bucket Challenge as well. To simplify it, if you want to donate to a charity, DO IT. If the WWE wants to turn all their rings, ramps, etc pink, then do it. But, donate the money to an organization OTHER THAN the Komen Foundation.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 30, 2014 10:59:57 GMT -5
Except WWE aren't the only ones who wear pink in October: Is it that terribly inconvenient to watch people wear pink for a month? While individuals who are a part of this promotion likely mean well, at the end of this remains the fact that WWE is trying to sell some merchandise and boost its PR image, just like the NHL and NFL and many other organizations and corporations. The bottom line, making money, trumps the humanitarian concern when it comes to these businesses. Even tonight part of Hogan's message basically was 'hey, buy lots of merch that's pink'. And you can be for breast cancer awareness, research, and treatment, obviously, without necessarily endorsing corporate pinkwashing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinkwashingPinkwashing, in this respect, is similar to slacktivism: posting a link to a blog on your Twitter is easy, just like buying a pink shirt with a Cena slogan is easy. It also makes people feel good because they think they're making a difference. The real world problems behind the links and the pink shirts, however, are difficult, more difficult than what the links and pink shirts belie. Just because someone is for breast cancer awareness, research, and treatment doesn't mean he or she can't also be critical of the way such things are undertaken, especially by corporations that have little to no medical relation to such things altogether, like WWE. Here's an idea. Go back a page, click on the link I posted and look at the independently audited financials yourself. I'd love to hear a comment on the over 1/4 billion dollars that they have awarded as grants and awards to groups and agencies over the past 2 years to fund research, public education, health screening, and treatment when it comes to breast cancer. How they have done more as a company to raise awareness and educate woman on the dangers and prevalence of breast cancer than any other agency. The 150 million they spent on marketing the past 2 years doing that. When you see things like people in this thread responding on what this heightened awareness has done for their own loved ones and others, you know what, money well spent. If people just want to focus on the negative part of this well that's their problem. The thing is people are just making their own assumptions on this whole topic and then presenting them as fact to the general public. Also sometimes, you need to take the fleas along with the dog. Thing is there's alot more to it then what you might have read on reddit or 4chan. Not pointing this at you whom I'm quoting this is in general. Lot more than a stray article here or there that you might have read, or cute compact catchall terms like "pinkwashing" that are fun to repeat. People say to educate yourself on the subject. I have, there's the financials. Look at them yourself. Then come back to thread knowing where the money went and go ahead and read what some have wrote about what the heightened awareness has meant to them. I would love to hear someone say things like the "pandering" or "pinkwashing" isn't worth it then. Mister Pigwell turn this whole damn place pink if you ask me.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 30, 2014 11:00:38 GMT -5
Unrelated, but while browsing the link, I saw an "Eat, Sleep, Poop, Repeat" dog leash. As soon as I get a dog, its as good as bought. If you leave your dinner where the dog can reach, it just might conquer the steak.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,570
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Post by khali on Sept 30, 2014 11:20:31 GMT -5
I wonder how turning the forum pink or blue would go here. You know, I see your point and at the same time, I wonder why people prop up awareness charities. I shook my head at the Ice Bucket Challenge as well. To simplify it, if you want to donate to a charity, DO IT. If the WWE wants to turn all their rings, ramps, etc pink, then do it. But, donate the money to an organization OTHER THAN the Komen Foundation. If you "prop up" awareness charities, you are increasing awareness. Shake your head at the ice bucket challenge if you want to, but it did raise ALS awareness and donations went through the roof. You can tell people to just do it, but raising awareness DOES help people get motivated to donate, in addition to helping people get checked.
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Post by bootytea on Sept 30, 2014 11:24:32 GMT -5
I actually dated a girl whose left breast was bigger than the right.
That shirt is a little too discriminatory for my liking.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 30, 2014 11:35:45 GMT -5
I actually dated a girl whose left breast was bigger than the right. That shirt is a little too discriminatory for my liking. Support fraternal twins?
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Sept 30, 2014 12:23:37 GMT -5
Unrelated, but while browsing the link, I saw an "Eat, Sleep, Poop, Repeat" dog leash. As soon as I get a dog, its as good as bought. Well shit, I know what I need to get my dog now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 12:54:13 GMT -5
I wonder how turning the forum pink or blue would go here.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 30, 2014 12:59:25 GMT -5
Will we get an "EAT, SLEEP, CONQUER CANCER" one? "Ladies and Gentlemen, my name is Paul Heyman. And my client is the one in 21-1 in the Undertaker's Wrestlemania Streak. My client is the man who thoroughly brutalized John Cena for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship at SummerSlam. And my client is the one that will CONQUER the threat known as breast cancer. My client is BRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOCK LEEEESNARRRRRRRR!!!" If anybody could scare cancer into doing the job it's The Destructor...
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 30, 2014 15:43:19 GMT -5
I think people who are having a reasoned debate about the legitimacy of raising awareness rather than money or this particular charity having issues are fine - people know more about these things than I do.
It's the people who are seemingly despondent over WWE just being a bit pink for a while that are grossing me out, here.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Sept 30, 2014 20:01:04 GMT -5
As someone who was in the Raw thread commenting negatively on this the other night, I think a simple explanation is needed more than a long ramble: I'd be forever fine & supportive with them raising awareness of health causes if it was not with Komen or ANY other registered charity who only put 20% of all donations towards finding a cure. Komen are there to raise profit via ignorance.Hell, stick a "Breast Cancer Awareness, donate to this site" banner in the top right of the screen to a registered charity that gives 60%+ to cancer research. Do that every month for different illnesses, make the world a better place through that and it's 1000% great. The Komen deal is bullshit because Susan G. Komen is a brand, it's a recognized name people accidentally support without realizing little goes to helping those who have/have had cancer. The WWE isn't doing this out of common decency and a want to help, Layla crying due to losing her mother, Titus crying due to losing someone etc, it's misery porn to get YOU to invest money into a brand that gives relatively no shits about anything but pushing their brand name and taking money from people who aren't aware they're ratty corporate scumbags. No one is being forced to donate to Komen unless they buy WWE products from WWE shop, if they saw a sad story like Titus or Layla they can chose other charities to donate to, it is up to an individual to pick who they want to donate to WWE isn't holding a metaphorical gun to the viewer's head and saying donate now to Komen. Their are far more important things to worry about instead of WWE going pink for a month. Why aren't we in an uproar about the way other companies have exploited vets, you can do that without getting political, why aren't we in arms about the way that mental illness isn't being exploited by that same other company. Instead we chose to focus our furor on a full month of cancer awareness. Look at the other charity work that WWE does some is flaunted while others are done behind the scenes, any major corporation will flaunt their charity work my job does that all the time. A decent number of charities don't even get the full one hundred percent so it isn't just Komen.
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Post by bluemeii on Sept 30, 2014 20:39:43 GMT -5
Here's an idea. Go back a page, click on the link I posted and look at the independently audited financials yourself. I'd love to hear a comment on the over 1/4 billion dollars that they have awarded as grants and awards to groups and agencies over the past 2 years to fund research, public education, health screening, and treatment when it comes to breast cancer. How they have done more as a company to raise awareness and educate woman on the dangers and prevalence of breast cancer than any other agency. The 150 million they spent on marketing the past 2 years doing that. When you see things like people in this thread responding on what this heightened awareness has done for their own loved ones and others, you know what, money well spent. If people just want to focus on the negative part of this well that's their problem. The thing is people are just making their own assumptions on this whole topic and then presenting them as fact to the general public. Also sometimes, you need to take the fleas along with the dog. Thing is there's alot more to it then what you might have read on reddit or 4chan. Not pointing this at you whom I'm quoting this is in general. Lot more than a stray article here or there that you might have read, or cute compact catchall terms like "pinkwashing" that are fun to repeat. People say to educate yourself on the subject. I have, there's the financials. Look at them yourself. Then come back to thread knowing where the money went and go ahead and read what some have wrote about what the heightened awareness has meant to them. I would love to hear someone say things like the "pandering" or "pinkwashing" isn't worth it then. Mister Pigwell turn this whole damn place pink if you ask me. Because my point had nothing to do about Komen specifically, but rather the culture of pinkwashing in which an organization like Komen exists in general, I honestly fail to understand how "did you read the Komen audit?" refutes any of the points I made because the Komen audit was not the centre of what I said to begin with. Nor did you engage with any of the points I actually did make. So, I don't know, really, want you want me to say? I mean, if you want people to read and educate themselves, then I recommend reading Samantha King's book Pink Ribbons, Inc: Breast Cancer and the Politics of Philanthropy and Gayle Sulik's Pink Ribbon Blues: How Breast Cancer Culture Undermines Women's Health, both of which are critical, academic perspectives about the phenomenon of breast cancer culture. You can find parts of these texts via Google Books. Or, the National Film Board of Canada documentary Pink Ribbons, Inc., a kind of extrapolation of King's text, also serves as another possible resource for thinking about breast cancer culture differently than what we see in mainstream media (like WWE in October, for example). I have seen the documentary. What I'm saying is people are just rabbiting things they have heard on a website or somewhere on the internet condemning this whole movement towards awareness. With the amount of money this one company generates and distributes in the name of breast cancer research and awareness, I really do not see the problem with them turning things pink in WWE and spending maybe 5 minutes an episode talking about it. If you had seen in my initial post, I didn't label everything at your post it was more aimed at the pinkwashing statement. I did make mention of the fact that everything else wasn't aimed at you and your comments. Personally if all of this pushing of pink merchandise raises awareness and ends up in the long run saving someones loved one. It's completely and totally worth it. I'm not going to sit her and condemn something that saves lives. Like I said previous, sometimes you have to take the fleas with the dog, this just happens to be one of those times. Reason I said for people to look at the audit is there are many people who do not understand what is happening with the money this organization collects. Someone on this very page mentions only 20 percent of the money going towards finding a cure. *(sigh...and of course this post ends up on a new page) Obviously the money goes to many things other than just research. That's what I would hope that people could get out of this discussion and do a little research on their own and find out for themselves. I'll be honest, on a personal level some of the comments directed at the fact that the WWE has "gone pink" for the month as disgusting and honestly downright embarrassing. Sorry I'm having a hard time condemning an organization that generated this amount of money towards the research, education, treatment, and prevention of this disease. There's more to add but it delves into some political issues that I'm just not bringing up in the thread. Feel free to message me if you would like to discuss this further by all means. *edit : Just listened to the Dear Ms. King and lets just say after an hour of listening to her rambling I'm seriously starting to doubt her and her "research". {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}The U.S. Military is involved with these agencies as a way of using "pinkwashing" as a means of consolidating the middle east for the U.S. and it's allies....I was waiting for her to put her tinfoil hat on. This could explain why her "research" hasn't gained more of a mainstream movement than it has. Hard to take her findings seriously when you can't take her seriously
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 21:01:38 GMT -5
As someone who was in the Raw thread commenting negatively on this the other night, I think a simple explanation is needed more than a long ramble: I'd be forever fine & supportive with them raising awareness of health causes if it was not with Komen or ANY other registered charity who only put 20% of all donations towards finding a cure. Komen are there to raise profit via ignorance.Hell, stick a "Breast Cancer Awareness, donate to this site" banner in the top right of the screen to a registered charity that gives 60%+ to cancer research. Do that every month for different illnesses, make the world a better place through that and it's 1000% great. The Komen deal is bullshit because Susan G. Komen is a brand, it's a recognized name people accidentally support without realizing little goes to helping those who have/have had cancer. The WWE isn't doing this out of common decency and a want to help, Layla crying due to losing her mother, Titus crying due to losing someone etc, it's misery porn to get YOU to invest money into a brand that gives relatively no shits about anything but pushing their brand name and taking money from people who aren't aware they're ratty corporate scumbags. No one is being forced to donate to Komen unless they buy WWE products from WWE shop, if they saw a sad story like Titus or Layla they can chose other charities to donate to, it is up to an individual to pick who they want to donate to WWE isn't holding a metaphorical gun to the viewer's head and saying donate now to Komen. Their are far more important things to worry about instead of WWE going pink for a month. Why aren't we in an uproar about the way other companies have exploited vets, you can do that without getting political, why aren't we in arms about the way that mental illness isn't being exploited by that same other company. Instead we chose to focus our furor on a full month of cancer awareness. Look at the other charity work that WWE does some is flaunted while others are done behind the scenes, any major corporation will flaunt their charity work my job does that all the time. A decent number of charities don't even get the full one hundred percent so it isn't just Komen. A lot of us have talked about this other stuff, though. I don't exactly agree with coming into a topic about WWE going pink with the possible cynicism behind it, to make this point. Sure, there are other things to worry about and those will be in their own topics and spring forth from their own conversations and we've discussed a lot of that stuff at one point or another. It's just this topic right now is not about that stuff. Saying Komen ain't shit doesn't let other companies off the hook, comrade. Just like saying Komen ain't shit isn't automatically an indictment of all the people who see the company positively, though I'm pretty blunt with saying what I think of it. Bruh, I get it. I admit I do a horrible of not looking at people who go whole hog in taking these companies at face as automatically suspect. That's also because I've got to hear people quote Autism Speaks bullshit at me whenever Autism Awareness Month rolls around. But eh, that's just me. I've got to remember to keep it to "**** THIS COMPANY." Without the "...and **** these people!" implications.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Oct 1, 2014 1:55:29 GMT -5
You know, I see your point and at the same time, I wonder why people prop up awareness charities. I shook my head at the Ice Bucket Challenge as well. To simplify it, if you want to donate to a charity, DO IT. If the WWE wants to turn all their rings, ramps, etc pink, then do it. But, donate the money to an organization OTHER THAN the Komen Foundation. If you "prop up" awareness charities, you are increasing awareness. Shake your head at the ice bucket challenge if you want to, but it did raise ALS awareness and donations went through the roof. You can tell people to just do it, but raising awareness DOES help people get motivated to donate, in addition to helping people get checked. It's not like the Komen Foundation is hard up for money. This happens EVERY October. I thought the ice bucket challenge was that if you didn't donate $100, you'd have to dump a bucket of ice on your head? If so, then why did some people opt to NOT donate after taking the challenge?
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