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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Nov 25, 2014 0:18:43 GMT -5
f***ed up situation all around. I respect the hell out of cops because their job is so damn hard, but man I can't sympathize with shooting an unarmed man. Shit is bout to go down and it's a goddamn failure of whomever decided to break the news at night. During the day would have made more sense as most people would be working. Let's just hope nobody else loses their life over this tonight. I think the reason they broke the news so late is so that they could get all the police into position for the inevitable fallout. I'd bet that the word came out earlier and it was decided to release the statement after adequate precautions were made. Yeah it would be worst because people trying to leave work or go home would have all kinds of issues. They did pick the worst week to do so however.
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Post by fuzzywarble, squat cobbler on Nov 25, 2014 0:21:55 GMT -5
f***ed up situation all around. I respect the hell out of cops because their job is so damn hard, but man I can't sympathize with shooting an unarmed man. Shit is bout to go down and it's a goddamn failure of whomever decided to break the news at night. During the day would have made more sense as most people would be working. Let's just hope nobody else loses their life over this tonight. But how the hell was the officer supposed to know whether Brown was armed or not? He kept reaching into his waistband, implying that he was probably reaching for a gun, even after the officer told him to stop. Also, he just robbed a convenience store and roughed up an innocent clerk. I'm sure the cop felt that he was probably a threat and may have been armed, like most convenience store thieves are.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,622
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Post by Renslayer on Nov 25, 2014 0:24:10 GMT -5
You also break news late when you know it isn't good. Some people, like the family, alledgedly knew the result since noon, but no. You don't report "good" news in the middle of the night. But okay, so now this has gone down. How long until we go through this whole song and dance again? Excluding all the people who were killed in eerily similar circumstances while this decision was going on, I mean. I saw that the family learned that there would be news of a verdict the same time the rest of us did
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Nov 25, 2014 0:25:56 GMT -5
You also break news late when you know it isn't good. Some people, like the family, alledgedly knew the result since noon, but no. You don't report "good" news in the middle of the night. But okay, so now this has gone down. How long until we go through this whole song and dance again? Excluding all the people who were killed in eerily similar circumstances while this decision was going on, I mean. I saw that the family learned that there would be news of a verdict the same time the rest of us did I heard that Michael Brown's mother collapsed from grief after the decision was announced to not press charges. They had to escort her out of the crowd that gathered in front of the courthouse. If true, I think you're right in saying she learned the same time we did. Now. It's possible that they knew for a while and that reaction was sort of the moment where it finally hit her that there would be no charges pressed against Darren Wilson.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,505
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 25, 2014 0:29:32 GMT -5
I believe the right descision was made today.
Michael Brown attacked a cop and went for his gun which does show an intent to harm or kill the officer. As an officer at that point it is well within your rights to use deadly force. You don't have time to aim, you simply have to shoot to neutralize the attack. 6 shots is not a lot and can be discharged in a very quick time. Once you are attacked you have no way to know if that person is unarmed not can you afford to risk being wrong.
It is never good when someone is killed and hopefully incidents like this can be prevented in the future.
It is Micheal Brown's fault he was killed and no one elses. Attacking and assaulting someone whether they are a cop or not can never lead to a positive outcome. If nothing else hopefully people will realize that their actions can have deadly consequences.
I am personally not a fan of guns and I do believe our country is too quick to point the trigger. In this case however, I do not feel the officer acted in any way that was wrong.
I form my opinion from being friends with a few cops, both white and back, and they have all told me how quickly a seemingly innoccent situation can turn very badly.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 0:31:37 GMT -5
I saw that the family learned that there would be news of a verdict the same time the rest of us did I heard that Michael Brown's mother collapsed from grief after the decision was announced to not press charges. They had to escort her out of the crowd that gathered in front of the courthouse. If true, I think you're right in saying she learned the same time we did. Now. It's possible that they knew for a while and that reaction was sort of the moment where it finally hit her that there would be no charges pressed against Darren Wilson. I did say "allegedly." I'm more about wondering what it's going to take to stop this shit at this point. It's like it never ends.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 25, 2014 0:31:51 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did.
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Post by Display Name on Nov 25, 2014 0:34:14 GMT -5
Why is it so hard for some people to just not do bad shit?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 0:36:39 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did. Yeah. The cop says the kid went for his gun which caused the officer to use deadly force, yet the kid was half a football field away from the cruiser when he went down. I'm not saying its an impossible situation, but with some video footage it'd be a lot easier to swallow.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Nov 25, 2014 0:37:18 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did. Communities that have that sort of technology equipped on their police officers have had the trust between their police departments and their citizens increase and incidents involving police officers overstepping their boundaries went down. I should also note these cameras have something in place that makes convenient editing next to impossible. It's not the end all be all solution but it's a great first step.
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Post by KStrick on Nov 25, 2014 0:42:24 GMT -5
Okay, can someone PLEASE just do this:
Give me a posting of JUST THE FACTS OF THIS CASE that support the side of "Mike Brown was an innocent kid shot by a racist cop", or anything that could justify a handful of my black friends on Facebook claiming that this non-decision shows that they're now somehow not human beings.
I seriously try to remain neutral about it, but everything credible reported supports that he attacked the police officer in the back seat of the squad car, and all I see from the other "side" if it were, is hyperbole and cries of how it was a racist-driven act. For example. If it was racism, can anyone give anything substantial that he did it out of racism? A Twitter posting where he said he hates black people? The audio recording of the evening where he makes it abundantly clear to the average person that he selected Brown based predominantly on race? His arrest records showing a disproportionately high rate of him specifically arresting/ticketing blacks in the area (outside of normal range in a predominantly black community?) ALL I see time and time again is hyperbole, and nothing that I can really understand this side of the issue. Even here, I've seen nothing that I can get attached to and understand why I shouldn't view this as a manufactured issue.
That's all I want. Give me facts on this. WHY should I be outraged? WHY should I believe it was other than the official narrative? PLEASE tell me why is this more than what is reported?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 0:43:15 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did. The thing is, if you probe deep enough in any type of witness testimony you're always going to get conflicts. What matters is if those conflicts completely contradict between each other and the facts of the case. If the only conflicts in the testimonies were minute details (what exactly happened in the car) and not the broad strokes of what happened (Brown was shot unarmed and posed no physical threat) then...well...and honestly for an indictment the burden of proof is even lower. You may have heard a saying how a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich? That's mostly true. The bar set for an indictment is comparable to an officer searching your car for "probable cause." And really, there's a difference between the facts of the case and whatever Darren Wilson says what happened. Whatever though, the police are going to look out for their own no matter how they have to spin the story.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 25, 2014 0:44:31 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did. I not only support this notion, but I would like to point out that sometimes the cops get the benefit of extra cameras as well. I remember a video from earlier this year where the dashcam for the cop car made it look as though the cop got out of his car to talk to a druggie and randomly started beating the shit out the druggie for no apparent reason. The cop's body cam, however, showed that the cop saw the guy pulled out a knife that the dashcam never showed, demonstrating that the cop had damned good reason to think that he was about to be attacked.
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Post by Zabel Zarock on Nov 25, 2014 0:48:41 GMT -5
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 25, 2014 0:48:48 GMT -5
It just occurred to me that my brother-in-law's wife is from St. Louis and still has family there. I suppose we ought to call her tomorrow to ensure that everyone is still fine.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
Posts: 6,505
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Nov 25, 2014 0:49:13 GMT -5
I also support cops wearing cameras. Many times it helps the cops more than anyone. Sad to say there are many people who would throw an innocent cop (or authority figure) under a bus just to save someone they know, even if they know that person is guilty.
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Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,489
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Post by Dragonfly on Nov 25, 2014 0:50:27 GMT -5
Almost everything I've seen/read/heard recently (present company excluded) seems to have the same message: You either agree with the cops completely, or you agree with the protesters completely. "Shades of gray" aren't tolerated. And that's a huge problem, because that's exactly where I'm at right now. Despite what the talking heads say, I can have reservations about Michael Brown's character while still steadfastly believing that he, or anyone else caught in this situation regardless of race, shouldn't be shot at.
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4TheGlory
Vegeta
The Fun One At Parties
Posts: 9,750
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Post by 4TheGlory on Nov 25, 2014 0:50:56 GMT -5
No one ever said life threatening injuries and are you implying someone should wait until they are beaten to a pulp before they are allowed to defend them selves?
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 25, 2014 0:51:17 GMT -5
All I'm going to say about this is that this situation really highlights why we should all be pushing for police to wear cameras at all times. We wouldn't have the conflicting accounts from all the witnesses either way if we did. Communities that have that sort of technology equipped on their police officers have had the trust between their police departments and their citizens increase and incidents involving police officers overstepping their boundaries went down. I should also note these cameras have something in place that makes convenient editing next to impossible. It's not the end all be all solution but it's a great first step. And it's not hard to see why that trust goes down, tbh. They monitor their own activity, typically with high levels of secrecy. They get to collect the evidence in any which way they want when investigating those crimes, up to refusing judges' orders on revealing how they got information. They don't tend to allow outsiders into the process and blast outsiders who do get involved (and when you take into account that even medical boards often allow a seat for untrained citizens to provide perspective, that's pretty bad). They tend to be very hostile to any shady dealings being exposed, most recently with civil forfeitures but Serpico is a great example anyways. There's no shortage of stories of them climbing into people's yards and shooting pets, of raiding the wrong houses and terrorizing innocent people, or of changing details of stories to make themselves look good all with impunity. And the courts tend to take the cop's side, since the cop endorsement is vital for a DA's election chances. I have every bit of understanding for people who say they don't trust the police, especially in a town like Ferguson where the cops tend to treat the citizens as a revenue source compared to more affluent parts of the area. The power they're given in society is not balanced by the amount they let society monitor them. There's a lot that can be done, but cameras at the very least end any glaring irregularities and make both parties think twice before acting inappropritely. Cameras can exonerate police officers accused of false accusations and it can prevent police from misusing their power or covering their own tracks when they make a mistake.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 25, 2014 0:51:54 GMT -5
The photos of Wilson won't help the situation
For someone who was apparently in a fight for his life, his injuries are virtually non-existent.
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