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Post by Red Impact on May 29, 2015 7:39:57 GMT -5
To me, it's one of those cases where someone thought to make something, a murder fantasy game in this case, then came up with the "message" after the fact when they started getting attention to try to appease people who were calling it out for what it was. Unless the content fo the game is significantly different from the trailer, any notion of it being made witt a real message seems to be totally disingenuous to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 7:41:54 GMT -5
What kind of immature loser would play this game? Ugh.
Anyway, I've been waiting for this for a while now and look forward to playing it soon.
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Square
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Post by Square on May 29, 2015 7:45:41 GMT -5
What kind of immature loser would play this game? Ugh. Anyway, I've been waiting for this for a while now and look forward to playing it soon. Yeah, how DARE people be interested in playing a video game?! Don't they know that violent video games cause violence, especially towards small kittens and puppies.
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Post by Red Impact on May 29, 2015 7:57:24 GMT -5
Yeah, how dare people have a different opinion and not believe in the virtuous message of this totally nuanced and subtle game that magically appeared after the game was refused publication!
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Burst
El Dandy
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Post by Burst on May 29, 2015 8:02:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I still can't take this game seriously just from how much it takes ITSELF so damn seriously. Both in the context of Mr. Not Important the protagonist and the developer's "message". It has all the subtlety of a wangsty high school sophomore who's just read Nietzsche for the first time.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on May 29, 2015 8:34:50 GMT -5
I came across this image, just felt like sharing it, cause it's great (spoiler tagged for size): {Spoiler}
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on May 29, 2015 9:23:23 GMT -5
What kind of immature loser would play this game? Ugh. Anyway, I've been waiting for this for a while now and look forward to playing it soon. Yeah, how DARE people be interested in playing a video game?! Don't they know that violent video games cause violence, especially towards small kittens and puppies. Nobody is even saying this and you know that.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on May 29, 2015 9:52:28 GMT -5
Looking at the game I think it is hitting home with a cool point about the nature of violence and games. Stripped back to the bare bones of "kill" instead of most games that will either make death cartoony or the main character likable as with GTA's Trevor or to attempt to create an enviroment where its ok to kill such as a war setting. Without playing it yet but watching a few videos of it I would also say there is something to it about mental health, the bleakness of it the tenseness of the music it really does ramp up the you vs the world feel of the game and gives a rather interesting insight as to the mind of someone that would do this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 14:09:19 GMT -5
Here's the thing. They can't ban the game. This isn't the 50's, they can't just stop every record store in town from carrying an album and thus shut off access to it. It's the internet, this game is available on the publisher's website and unless this group has the resources to buy every webhosting service out there, they can't stop it's sale (And lobbying to a web host to ban it is useless as, unless the law has changed in the years since I graduated from journalism school, as soon as a webhost starts to control the content they're hosting, they're legally responsible for all the content that is posted. They're not going to set themselves up as legally responsible for all the internet appease some hyperconservatives). If GOG or Steam chose not to carry it, that's their right. Claiming it's a bad thing that they have that right is tantamount to saying that a retailer can't control their stock. If people want to buy this game as a sort of counter protest because they believe it really was intended as some subtle social message, they have outlets to do that. If people want to boycott GoG or Steam to try to sway their decision against publishing it, that's their right too. No one needs to be on any particular service to sell a digital game anymore. The internet has made that form of citizen censorship nigh impossible, which is a great thing. It also means we don't need to take part in any particular campaign to rally against it, because the only time they could stop a game like this from reaching an audience would be to stop it from existing in the first place, which they've failed to do. Further driving home the point that its NOT censorship anymore than Burger King choosing not to carry Heinz Ketchup is "censorship" against the Heinz corp. Steam choosing to not carry a game is not tantamount to "suppressing" Hatred's devs speech or art in any way whatsoever. Those devs are 100% free to make that game as violent and offensive as they please. Steam not carrying them doesn't suppress the devs "words, images or ideas." It fails the ACLUs definition of censorship. What is even more baffling is getting mad over THE RIGHT a private enterprise has of selling what they what they want in a FREE MARKET and then claiming they are being censored. Getting mad at a retailer and trying to force them to sell something is kind of the definition censorship by their own logic since you're violating the retailers right of selling what they want that is legal in a free market. Like I understand getting mad in a advisory way if demand is high and it's baffling they won't sell it, like say your local grocery sells everything but Milk and I really like milk but the next grocery store is a 20 minute drive away. But is demand really that high? If it is isn't more awesome they can sell a PC Exclusive game on their own website and keep all the royalties rather than giving a retailer commission fee to Steam or GOG? Plus it drives up traffic to your own site as well? Wait if it's that easy to buy a game in the first place why is this is a big deal in the first place anyways? Considering nobody buys PC Games in disc's anymore anyways and it's all digital. Making something out of nothing to draw in controversy and name value of a game to boost up sales of a game on your own website where you keep all profits.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 29, 2015 14:21:24 GMT -5
Making something out of nothing to draw in controversy and name value of a game to boost up sales of a game on your own website where you keep all profits. PFft... like anyone would ever try that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 15:02:18 GMT -5
Making something out of nothing to draw in controversy and name value of a game to boost up sales of a game on your own website where you keep all profits. PFft... like anyone would ever try that. I've said since early on in this whole "controversy" that Steam would've been VERY smart to leverage this from day 0 into more money for them in the long run. Fairly uninteresting looking "edgy" shooter gets release...maybe a few buys. "Controversial" shooter surrounded by all kinds of debate and linked up with some kind of "culture war" etc etc buzzwords, trending, hashtags and so on....MANY more buys.
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Square
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Post by Square on May 29, 2015 16:52:16 GMT -5
Looking at the game I think it is hitting home with a cool point about the nature of violence and games. Stripped back to the bare bones of "kill" instead of most games that will either make death cartoony or the main character likable as with GTA's Trevor or to attempt to create an enviroment where its ok to kill such as a war setting. Without playing it yet but watching a few videos of it I would also say there is something to it about mental health, the bleakness of it the tenseness of the music it really does ramp up the you vs the world feel of the game and gives a rather interesting insight as to the mind of someone that would do this. ITS MY OPINION, THE f*** AM I GRABBING AT STRAWS FOR SAYING MY OP... I'm done, I'm just gonna stick to the games forum and wrestling from now on.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on May 29, 2015 16:58:18 GMT -5
Thanks for making me regret bumping this thread, guys. Really mature and adorable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 17:04:25 GMT -5
ITS MY OPINION, THE f*** AM I GRABBING AT STRAWS FOR SAYING MY OP... I'm done, I'm just gonna stick to the games forum and wrestling from now on. Grasping at straws can apply to opinions as well. It doesn't just apply to facts. The very nature of phrase relates to the idea of drawing conclusions based on lack of options/information. It's like how people go, "That movie is going to suck!!!" based solely on the casting of the fourth billed person. Its still an opinion, but its one grasping at straws.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
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Post by FinalGwen on May 29, 2015 18:16:12 GMT -5
The sudden switch between "It's making points about game violence but stripping away the characters so it's right down to the barebone! That makes it satire, right?" to "Wait, no, it's actually about mental illness despite the fact that it's meant to have removed all the characterisation stuff that an actual deep analysis would require!" is what made me think you were grasping for any way to avoid saying it's a shallow murder fantasy made by people with a large amount of links to hate groups.
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Post by knightrider01 on May 29, 2015 19:06:45 GMT -5
I say re-title the thread with my tagline of "For Edgelords, By Edgelords." It's certainly proving accurate enough. Also any talk of the game being censored from the masses is just intellectually dishonest at this point. Steam is carrying it even though they usually don't carry AO games. And even if they didn't, you can just buy it from the publisher's website unhindered. The SJW's are not coming to take away your vidya. Which is why every time a game is banned they celebrate. Or constantly lie and misinform people to make there point. Or when Lion's Head had to remove images from there twitter or when they celebrated when Obisidian had to remove a certain joke from their game. For people who aren't out to change vidya games they sure do try and change vidya games. Also it may not be proof able that some one it influencing their decision but saying only the government can censor is just wrong.
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Post by Cyno on May 29, 2015 19:33:15 GMT -5
Oh, you're one of those "ethics in games journalism" folks aren't you.
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FinalGwen
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Post by FinalGwen on May 29, 2015 19:39:41 GMT -5
I say re-title the thread with my tagline of "For Edgelords, By Edgelords." It's certainly proving accurate enough. Also any talk of the game being censored from the masses is just intellectually dishonest at this point. Steam is carrying it even though they usually don't carry AO games. And even if they didn't, you can just buy it from the publisher's website unhindered. The SJW's are not coming to take away your vidya. Which is why every time a game is banned they celebrate. Or constantly lie and misinform people to make there point. Or when Lion's Head had to remove images from there twitter or when they celebrated when Obisidian had to remove a certain joke from their game. For people who aren't out to change vidya games they sure do try and change vidya games. Also it may not be proof able that some one it influencing their decision but saying only the government can censor is just wrong. Oh no, Obsidian had to remove a single bit of transphobic trash from their game which they themselves said hadn't been properly vetted like their procedures said should have been done. That one thing was replaced by a different limerick. Video games are ruined forever. Such terrible censorship.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 20:10:59 GMT -5
Can we please be a little more judicious in how we use "censorship?" because I'm seeing a lot of people mistaking "a company changing their game to sell more units and make more money" for "censorship." Because that honestly is a big f*** you to people who have ACTUALLY been censored throughout history.
Asking for something to be changed is not asking for censorship in any way whatsoever. When a network makes changes to a TV show (whether I personally like those changes or not) to appease an audience they want to watch their show, that's not censorship. Same goes for VG devs/companies. That's people trying to make money. That is capitalism at its best or worst, depending on your stance. That's MONEY. And its what its all about.
If people celebrate when something they don't like is banned/not-banned, that doesn't mean those same people are an insidious force whose machinations made it happen.
I swear, I honestly can't tell which side of these pathetic, ongoing culture wars is more prone to fabrication and conspiratorial delusions. The really unfortunate thing is that the more people see it as a "war" or an "us vs them" thing with each side spitefully digging their heels in (and both sides do it and NO ONE come at me with, "well, they started it!") the sadder we all look as a people.
So, please, feel free to go on imagining all the malevolent forces at play against "your side" that are censoring, not censoring, pushing agenda for change or for things to stay the same or whatever, but try to do it some sense that on the other end of the computer is a person. Not an agenda, not a hashtag, and not one of a group "out to get you." Because what I see A LOT online, but less so here, is just some very weak ass examples of humanity. And it makes me feel very, very sad about being a part of community that exists online.
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Post by knightrider01 on May 29, 2015 20:11:23 GMT -5
Which is why every time a game is banned they celebrate. Or constantly lie and misinform people to make there point. Or when Lion's Head had to remove images from there twitter or when they celebrated when Obisidian had to remove a certain joke from their game. For people who aren't out to change vidya games they sure do try and change vidya games. Also it may not be proof able that some one it influencing their decision but saying only the government can censor is just wrong. Oh no, Obsidian had to remove a single bit of transphobic trash from their game which they themselves said hadn't been properly vetted like their procedures said should have been done. That one thing was replaced by a different limerick. Video games are ruined forever. Such terrible censorship. Actually it was a transphoic joke. It was about a guy who got drunk slept with a man and then killed himself. Not transphobic, homophobic yes. Also it was fan submission that paid for the joke himself. Then replaced it with about people who get easily offended. Also, yes it was censorship. Not a big scale one but seeing how a pressure group forced them to look into and even ask the guy to change it because it offended them is wrong. I know we can't talk about "it" but censorship is happening. Not acknowledging it doesn't it's not there.
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