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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 11:53:41 GMT -5
Why? Because the crowd/audience isn't even remotely similar. Unless Raw/SmackDown's audiences all of a sudden became 18-22 year olds clinging to their last real moments of youth in their lives, you're not all of a sudden going to see someone like Charlotte vs Natalya for example get a monstrous reaction for a good match. You're not going to see wacky gimmicks like Emma and Tyler Breeze get over. You're not going to see the fans going apeshit over practically anything. It just won't happen. The sheer diversity of the WWE's audience flat out won't allow it. So for anyone who wants this, you may want to think twice about it because a good majority of the stuff in NXT would probably fall flat on its face on USA/Sy-Fy.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2014 11:54:55 GMT -5
So, can they just not do logical storytelling on Raw like they do on NXT?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 11:58:01 GMT -5
So, can they just not do logical storytelling on Raw like they do on NXT? NXT isn't always logical either. Sylvester Lefort still isn't bald. Charlotte's no longer a heel on the grounds of "ionno." Why does Bull Dempsey have to sit in the audience when he works for NXT? I think people misconstrue boring as illogical. If the Raw/SmackDown audience was more lively for things, I highly doubt anyone would care for logic. |
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
Rock... Paper... Straight-edge!
I Like To <blank>
Posts: 14,343
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Post by Blindkarevik on Dec 17, 2014 11:59:07 GMT -5
NXT is a place with a carte-blanche to throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. If someone doesn't get over with a gimmick, take em off TV for a while, repackage them and see if they can get over with a new gimmick. They can try the dumb, zany things and see if it works or not without much backlash if they don't. Guys like the Vaudevillians have an awesome gimmick, I just have no idea if it'll translate to the main roster that well for the reasons you gave.
However, despite the fact they have that... they're still creating bare-bones, compelling storylines. They are giving the fans what they want, they are putting on the most exciting in-ring product in the WWE... and just outshining WWE with their whole production.
Yes, NXT does have elements that wouldn't be given the same amount of leeway on the big stage.... but, the point of contention is, in terms of overall storytelling and match quality... the developmental league is proving to be superior to the main product.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 12:01:14 GMT -5
NXT is a place with a carte-blanche to throw shit at a wall and see what sticks. If someone doesn't get over with a gimmick, take em off TV for a while, repackage them and see if they can get over with a new gimmick. They can try the dumb, zany things and see if it works or not without much backlash if they don't. Guys like the Vaudevillians have an awesome gimmick, I just have no idea if it'll translate to the main roster that well for the reasons you gave. However, despite the fact they have that... they're still creating bare-bones, compelling storylines. They are giving the fans what they want, they are putting on the most exciting in-ring product in the WWE... and just outshining WWE with their whole production. Yes, NXT does have elements that wouldn't be given the same amount of leeway on the big stage.... but, the point of contention is, in terms of overall storytelling and match quality... the developmental league is proving to be superior to the main product. But again, put a crowd of something other than 18-22 year olds down there and I can guarantee you that show would not be remotely as interesting. If the crowd isn't reacting, everyone immediately says its boring. The fact that the NXT crowd is willing to react to practically anything is the reason why stupid shit can work in the first place. Plenty of stuff on Raw/SD is perfectly fine, but the audience doesn't do anything when it happens. That's what matters most. |
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Dec 17, 2014 12:01:46 GMT -5
NXT is Net-only, and the Net audience is more full of smarks and wrestling-oriented by definition. You can literally get a diva over by calling her "Blue Pants" there -- try that on the main roster.
Can WWE book logical storylines on Raw? Sure. They do it all the time. (whether people want to recognize it or not). But I don't think the Full Sail crowds react the way they do because of the storylines -- they mark out for pretty much anything before any storyline is ever revealed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:06:42 GMT -5
Nah. I don't buy that for a second.
Wacky gimmicks have gotten over on the main show for a while now and a competitive women's match once main evented RAW. It CAN work, but they're too committed to their current "WWE RAW brand" of "entertainment" that only kinda works for them as it is.
It also doesn't help the arguement that a ton of stuff that RAW puts out that reeks of the architypical "RAW" brand style falls flat PLENTY of times in front of a the live audience. hell, there have been many, many times where WWE has had to ignore, alter or re-interpret the audience's reaction to "RAW-style" booking in order to make it seem like it was recieved better than it actually was.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2014 12:13:34 GMT -5
So, can they just not do logical storytelling on Raw like they do on NXT? NXT isn't always logical either. Sylvester Lefort still isn't bald. Charlotte's no longer a heel on the grounds of "ionno." Why does Bull Dempsey have to sit in the audience when he works for NXT? I think people misconstrue boring as illogical. If the Raw/SmackDown audience was more lively for things, I highly doubt anyone would care for logic. No, I knew exactly what I meant. That shit with Bray Wyatt/Dean Ambrose over the past few weeks? Most of it makes no sense, they are just doing shit with no rhyme or reason for the sake of getting visuals for the hype video. That angle where Ambrose walked out of the ambulance is the perfect example of this. It looked cool but why the hell was an ambulance out there? What up with the smoke and the weapons inside it? That's nonsensical. There are so many examples of angles on Raw where it's obvious no one thought of the little details and just rushed to get to the big picture, making the angle stupid when you actually stop and think about it for more than two seconds. Remember when Dean Ambrose got curb-stomped and Roman Reigns and John Cena proceeded to do absolutely nothing despite the fact that Ambrose was their partner that night? Better yet, how about when Cena let his entire Survivor Series team get murked on the go-home show and did nothing to try help them, acting like he was helpless and crying that the Authority was killing his team. Dude wasn't even shown checking on his teammates, he was just whining and crying to Ryback about how unfair life is. Like, dude, you are a 15-time World Champion who is 100% healthy, quit acting like a child and do something! All of that shows a lack of attention to detail. Nobody stops and thinks of the little things which makes a huge difference to me because I'm OCD about wrestling like that. The Lefort thing is kinda dumb but in wrestling sense, it makes sense that for whatever reason, Louis getting shaved was considered valid as he took Lefort's place. Charlotte turned babyface because the fans were getting behind her and she gained respect for another babyface (Bayley). Not at all a hard storyline to understand and it's happened several times in wrestling. The Bull Dempsey stuff is goofy, that I'll give you, haha. NXT is simple, basic storytelling and there really isn't many details to keep track of. Some stuff is silly and doesn't make a whole lot of sense, sure, but it's still a much stronger track record than Raw. The problem with Raw is that they try to do too much shit and overcomplicated things. They have to "WRITE." Wrestling is not that hard to book. It really isn't, use the KISS method. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2014 12:20:24 GMT -5
Also, I'll be honest. Maybe it's just the OP but the intent behind this thread seems hostile. "No, you dumb marks, Raw can't be like NXT so shut about it!"
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,586
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 17, 2014 12:22:48 GMT -5
In the past wrestlers have talked about how if you can get something over with a small audience you can get it over with a big one (perhaps with some tweaking).
ECW had a similar audience to NXT but a lot of it's wrestlers and concepts got over elsewhere to the point many consider it the basis for the attitude era.
You could say the same about RoH's influence on recent WWE from the summer of Punk creating the biggest buzz in years to the general fanbase picking Daniel Bryan as their next star (and maybe the rise of the six-man tag?).
There's nothing wrong with the various NXT gimmicks it's the way Raw presents them that's the issue.
Basically the old writing adage of "Show don't tell" applies.
Generally speaking NXT shows and Raw tells, it's the difference between watching a character evolve and Michael Cole telling you what the character is.
It's also worth remembering NXT is shown around the world, no idea how well it does though but it must reach quite a broad market.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 12:28:06 GMT -5
Also, I'll be honest. Maybe it's just the OP but the intent behind this thread seems hostile. "No, you dumb marks, Raw can't be like NXT so shut about it!" It's more of a way of saying that people aren't being all that realistic with comparing NXT to Raw since that's what everyone seems to think would immediately fix Raw being boring, when the audience is still exactly the same and isn't going to react the same way. Hell, I wouldn't doubt some of the stuff on Raw that people complain about would be over on NXT. |
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 17, 2014 12:29:13 GMT -5
Also, I'll be honest. Maybe it's just the OP but the intent behind this thread seems hostile. "No, you dumb marks, Raw can't be like NXT so shut about it!" It's more of a way of saying that people aren't being all that realistic with comparing NXT to Raw since that's what everyone seems to think would immediately fix Raw being boring, when the audience is still exactly the same and isn't going to react the same way. Hell, I wouldn't doubt some of the stuff on Raw that people complain about would be over on NXT. Fair enough, just thought the OP could have been phrased differently. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 17, 2014 12:36:59 GMT -5
Santino Marella was over as hell.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 17, 2014 12:43:00 GMT -5
Maybe you can't...
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,961
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 17, 2014 12:43:09 GMT -5
I maintain that it isn't the size of the crowd that makes the difference-it's the booking. Put out a product that is fresh and entertaining and the crowd will react. Put out the same stuff over and over and the crowd will get bored.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,997
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Post by Perd on Dec 17, 2014 12:49:53 GMT -5
I don't watch NXT. I just wish WWE was better. Because right now, I can't make it more than halfway through Raw. And I'm someone that watched every second of Raw in 2009.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
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Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Dec 17, 2014 12:53:07 GMT -5
What's with this new mentality that the Full Sail crowd is nothing but "jaded hipster college students?" Because it looks like a mixed audience to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 12:56:02 GMT -5
What's with this new mentality that the Full Sail crowd is nothing but "jaded hipster college students?" Because it looks like a mixed audience to me. Well, I think its partially because Full Sail is a college for music/film production. So while "hipster college" may be accurate, I'm not sure where "jaded" comes from. Odds the average RAW viewer is MUCH more jaded than a college student. But yeah, i see kids there too sometimes. |
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Post by mizzziggler on Dec 17, 2014 13:02:27 GMT -5
Considering that I fall asleep half way through every single raw, and most of the time don't bother with smackdown.... They should at least try.
Just a little.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 17, 2014 13:02:46 GMT -5
 LET'S GO THIS GUY!!!! *CLAP CLAP CLAPCLAPCLAP* LET'S GO THIS GUY!!! |
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