Evil Homer
Hank Scorpio
I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer.
Posts: 5,377
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Post by Evil Homer on Dec 17, 2014 13:24:26 GMT -5
I agree with eveything the op said , keep nxt's style seperate from the main shows. I love developmental & almost 'indie' feel to it
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 13:35:41 GMT -5
"Thread Created By: thelonewolf527" There's nothing to see here. Why you continue to talk about wrestling with fellow fans when almost everybody disagrees with almost all of your view points astounds me. It's always constant "The IWC are wrong" ignoring the fact that a) there is no such thing as the 'IWC' anymore and b) if there is, then you're part of it. You pretty much have taken my opinion on Daniel Bryan and have used it to generalize my beliefs and what I like. Not to mention the fact that "everyone disagrees with you" and calling me out and why I still post online is very condescending and flat out flame bating in my opinion. I've posted this because I'm seeing threads about how WWE is horrible and that the workers need to tell Vince to f*** off and be like NXT, when the demographics don't line up at all. I would like for you to please address my points instead of insulting me, otherwise I would suggest that you leave and not clutter something I hoped would spark actual discussion.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 13:37:57 GMT -5
Everything they do on NXT can be done on RAW.
They just don't want to do it, because the people running RAW are insane.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 17, 2014 13:41:47 GMT -5
NXT works because of the brevity of the show. Make it more than an hour, it all comes crumbling down. Raw suffers from trying to fill 3 hours of tv every week.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,301
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Post by Woo on Dec 17, 2014 13:42:58 GMT -5
No, my opion of you Lonewolf is based on the fact you defend the WWE so much that you come across as their lawyer or something. You and the WWE (after all your opinions seem to be the same) are like that famous Principal Skinner comment if you were to replace the word children with 'WWE fans'. "Am I really out of touch? No, it's the WWE fans that are wrong!" When the majority of wrestling fans hate your current product there is a problem.
Of course you can book Raw like NXT.
I remember the WWE when storylines made sense. When PPV's were exciting and not filled with promos. I've seen wrestling promotions not treat the women as jokes. I recall when they used to have long term planning in storylines.
The fans that come to Wrestlemania and the Raw after are the same target audience as the NXT fans. Look around at the NXT crowd and you'll see men, women, children, parents and Grandparents. Literally everybody. If NXT can appeal to them then why can't Raw?
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 13:45:55 GMT -5
RAW suffers from having a creative head who doesn't believe his pro wrestling company is a pro wrestling company, thinks that FUN is the primary theme of the product, and doesn't like sneezing.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,301
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Post by Woo on Dec 17, 2014 13:49:11 GMT -5
Also Lonewolf I don't know why you expect things to change instantly?
"Well I booked Charlotte vs Sasha Banks on Raw in a 10 minute match and the fans didn't make much noise?" "Maybe because they didn't know who they were?" "No. It just proves women can't get over as wrestlers." "But Alundra Blaze and Wendi Ritcher were very over and..." "...Just can't get over."
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 17, 2014 13:51:19 GMT -5
No, my opion of you Lonewolf is based on the fact you defend the WWE so much that you come across as their lawyer or something. You and the WWE (after all your opinions seem to be the same) are like that famous Principal Skinner comment if you were to replace the word children with 'WWE fans'. "I'm I really out of touch? No, it's the fans that are wrong!" When the majority of wrestling fans hate your current product there is a problem. Of course you can book Raw like NXT. I remember the WWE when storylines made sense. When PPV's were exciting and not filled with promos. I've seen wrestling promotions not treat the women as jokes. I recall when they used to have long term planning in storylines. The fans that come to Wrestlemania and the Raw after are the same target audience as the NXT fans. Look around at the NXT crowd and you'll see men, women, children, parents and Grandparents. Literally everybody. If NXT can appeal to them then why can't Raw? I haven't defended WWE at all here. I've been bored as shit with the product lately too. I'm just saying this quick fix of "be like NXT" that people think is the solution probably won't fix anything in my opinion. But to counter something you said, well what about the Jimmy Uso/Miz story? That's a legitimate midcard/tag team storyline with an easy to understand plot that makes sense from a real life perspective. And all I've seen is people shitting on it, when it's finally a step in the right direction according to those who say there aren't enough stories. Also Lonewolf I don't know why you expect things to change instantly? "Well I booked Charlotte vs Sasha Banks on Raw in a 10 minute match and the fans didn't make much noise?" "Maybe because they didn't know who they were?" "No. It just proves women can't get over as wrestlers." "But Alundra Blaze and Wendi Ritcher were very over and..." "...Just can't get over." I've seen entire pay-per-views of good matches with well known wrestlers/divas where the audience was dead silent for the entire show. Go watch Layla vs Beth Phoenix at No Way Out in 2012. Two divas everyone knows, the match was fine, but the crowd sounded as if they had their mouths taped shut.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 13:54:06 GMT -5
NXT isn't rocket science
- A relatively small roster, each with distinct characters people can identify - Logical storylines based on issues between wrestlers fighting for titles - A commentary team who focus on calling matches rather than ribbing each other and talking about bullshit unrelated to the product - Fewer hours to fill, thus an in-built quality control - A focus on in ring action with no slapstick, comedy bullshit - Consistent writing, patient booking and long term storyline planning
Pretty much all of it can be applied to RAW if the will to do it was there.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 17, 2014 13:55:56 GMT -5
No, my opion of you Lonewolf is based on the fact you defend the WWE so much that you come across as their lawyer or something. You and the WWE (after all your opinions seem to be the same) are like that famous Principal Skinner comment if you were to replace the word children with 'WWE fans'. "I'm I really out of touch? No, it's the fans that are wrong!" When the majority of wrestling fans hate your current product there is a problem. Of course you can book Raw like NXT. I remember the WWE when storylines made sense. When PPV's were exciting and not filled with promos. I've seen wrestling promotions not treat the women as jokes. I recall when they used to have long term planning in storylines. The fans that come to Wrestlemania and the Raw after are the same target audience as the NXT fans. Look around at the NXT crowd and you'll see men, women, children, parents and Grandparents. Literally everybody. If NXT can appeal to them then why can't Raw? I haven't defended WWE at all here. I've been bored as shit with the product lately too. I'm just saying this quick fix of "be like NXT" that people think is the solution probably won't fix anything in my opinion. But to counter something you said, well what about the Jimmy Uso/Miz story? That's a legitimate midcard/tag team storyline with an easy to understand plot that makes sense from a real life perspective. And all I've seen is people shitting on it, when it's finally a step in the right direction according to those who say there aren't enough stories. I want more stories for the Midcard. But I don't like the Jimmy Uso/Miz story because I think Jimmy Uso is a massive step down for Miz.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,301
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Post by Woo on Dec 17, 2014 13:57:29 GMT -5
No, my opion of you Lonewolf is based on the fact you defend the WWE so much that you come across as their lawyer or something. You and the WWE (after all your opinions seem to be the same) are like that famous Principal Skinner comment if you were to replace the word children with 'WWE fans'. "I'm I really out of touch? No, it's the fans that are wrong!" When the majority of wrestling fans hate your current product there is a problem. Of course you can book Raw like NXT. I remember the WWE when storylines made sense. When PPV's were exciting and not filled with promos. I've seen wrestling promotions not treat the women as jokes. I recall when they used to have long term planning in storylines. The fans that come to Wrestlemania and the Raw after are the same target audience as the NXT fans. Look around at the NXT crowd and you'll see men, women, children, parents and Grandparents. Literally everybody. If NXT can appeal to them then why can't Raw? I haven't defended WWE at all here. I've been bored as shit with the product lately too. I'm just saying this quick fix of "be like NXT" that people think is the solution probably won't fix anything in my opinion. But to counter something you said, well what about the Jimmy Uso/Miz story? That's a legitimate midcard/tag team storyline with an easy to understand plot that makes sense from a real life perspective. And all I've seen is people shitting on it, when it's finally a step in the right direction according to those who say there aren't enough stories. Also Lonewolf I don't know why you expect things to change instantly? "Well I booked Charlotte vs Sasha Banks on Raw in a 10 minute match and the fans didn't make much noise?" "Maybe because they didn't know who they were?" "No. It just proves women can't get over as wrestlers." "But Alundra Blaze and Wendi Ritcher were very over and..." "...Just can't get over." I've seen entire pay-per-views of good matches with well known wrestlers/divas where the audience was dead silent for the entire show. Go watch Layla vs Beth Phoenix at No Way Out in 2012. Two divas everyone knows, the match was fine, but the crowd sounded as if they had their mouths taped shut. I haven't been here a lot lately but the complaints I read about the Miz/Uso storyline was that it was stupid to just say "Oh btw Naomi and Jimmy are married", which they have a point for honestly. I can't recall that match. But were was it and was there and interesting story going into the PPV?
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 13:57:56 GMT -5
People are shitting on Miz and Jimmy, because they find Sandow more entertaining, Miz's gimmick is annoying and lacks even ironic credibility, and the entire story makes Naomi look like she's got shit for brains.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 17, 2014 13:59:28 GMT -5
thinks that FUN is the primary theme of the product That's NXT's primary theme too. No Bayley, no buys.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 17, 2014 14:00:31 GMT -5
People are shitting on Miz and Jimmy, because they find Sandow more entertaining, Miz's gimmick is annoying and lacks even ironic credibility, and the entire story makes Naomi look like she's got shit for brains. It's still a midcard angle over titles. It's easy to find flaws in every angle. NXT isn't reinventing the wheel when it comes to that nor all of their angles are homeruns.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 14:03:08 GMT -5
People are shitting on Miz and Jimmy, because they find Sandow more entertaining, Miz's gimmick is annoying and lacks even ironic credibility, and the entire story makes Naomi look like she's got shit for brains. It's still a midcard angle over titles. It's easy to find flaws in every angle. NXT isn't reinventing the wheel when it comes to that nor all of their angles are homeruns. It's an awful mid-card feud over titles which WWE loses interest in for months at a time. Yes, it's easy to find flaws in WWE angles, because they are so badly written. NXT doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. The original wheel still works if WWE are willing to use it.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 17, 2014 14:07:44 GMT -5
It's still a midcard angle over titles. It's easy to find flaws in every angle. NXT isn't reinventing the wheel when it comes to that nor all of their angles are homeruns. It's an awful mid-card feud over titles which WWE loses interest in for months at a time. Yes, it's easy to find flaws in WWE angles, because they are so badly written. NXT doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. The original wheel still works if WWE are willing to use it. Again, WWE is still using the same wheel. That's the problem. I seriously feel folks are so bitter and disenfranchised with the WWE main roster and programming, that WWE could crib sheet everything NXT currently is doing, people will still shit on it.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 17, 2014 14:10:17 GMT -5
It's an awful mid-card feud over titles which WWE loses interest in for months at a time. Yes, it's easy to find flaws in WWE angles, because they are so badly written. NXT doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. The original wheel still works if WWE are willing to use it. Again, WWE is still using the same wheel. That's the problem. I seriously feel folks are so bitter and disenfranchised with the WWE main roster and programming, that WWE could crib sheet everything NXT currently is doing, people will still shit on it. They aren't using the same wheel. Listen to the Austin/McMahon podcast. Vince doesn't even think WWE is a wrestling company. That's what causes bitterness. He doesn't book his product towards wrestling fans. He books his product towards himself and the weird world he lives in. If WWE followed their own model in NXT, which is the classic wrestling model, people wouldn't shit on it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 14:10:44 GMT -5
So because Raw can't be booked like NXT gives that them an excuse to put no effort at all into the show?
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Dec 17, 2014 14:19:05 GMT -5
It's an awful mid-card feud over titles which WWE loses interest in for months at a time. Yes, it's easy to find flaws in WWE angles, because they are so badly written. NXT doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. The original wheel still works if WWE are willing to use it. Again, WWE is still using the same wheel. That's the problem. I seriously feel folks are so bitter and disenfranchised with the WWE main roster and programming, that WWE could crib sheet everything NXT currently is doing, people will still shit on it. Honestly, the thing is that the WWE kind of shits over any goodwill they win over. Even when they have a good story, they ruin it with terrible presentation. I mean even a bad plot point is more fun if I only have to see it once - the endless, endless replays of something that happened in the very same night are beyond annoying. The commentators trying to force feed a narrative don't help either. Not that the NXT commentary is good either, but it's...if nothing else, it doesn't feel as repetitive if that makes sense. There's something so formulaic and annoying about the replays and way the commentary is structured on Raw that it just drives me insane. If they didn't have that, I'd probably enjoy the plot a lot more. Not to mention that, yeeeeeeah the 3-hour format just makes the show drag like nothing else. NXT is short and sweet, there's very little downtime. RAW sometimes feels like it's nothing BUT downtime, which is the main thing. I could see myself enjoying a 3-hour show that was paced just like NXT's first hour all night long, but even that would get a bit tiresome. I guess what I'm saying is that though the NXT booking is better, what really, really makes it shit all over Raw for me is the pacing. It just doesn't feel like a chore to watch it and that's such a strange, bizarre feeling to get.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 17, 2014 14:20:42 GMT -5
Again, WWE is still using the same wheel. That's the problem. I seriously feel folks are so bitter and disenfranchised with the WWE main roster and programming, that WWE could crib sheet everything NXT currently is doing, people will still shit on it. They aren't using the same wheel. Listen to the Austin/McMahon podcast. Vince doesn't even think WWE is a wrestling company. That's what causes bitterness. He doesn't book his product towards wrestling fans. He books his product towards himself and the weird world he lives in. If WWE followed their own model in NXT, which is the classic wrestling model, people wouldn't shit on it. Wrestling been secondary in WWE for decades. Wrestlemania was created as a spectacle not as a wrestling event. If you wanted to watch pro wrestling, you watched NWA/WCW. WWF was about showmanship first, actual wrestling second. WWF/WWE has always been booked with Vince in mind when it came to the booking. The Attitude Era was when this became even more true. And WWE still uses that formula even after that booking scorched the earth. When WWE has done times booking angles classic NWA style the last 2 years, people here shitted on it. Daniel Bryan's booking was classic NWA but I heard was "WWE is burying him".
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