efarns
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,273
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Post by efarns on Jan 3, 2015 22:33:21 GMT -5
I'd prefer to have a drink and shoot the shit with Cornette. It would never be boring talking to him. Though that's not to say Heyman wouldn't be fun to be with. However, I'd have to go with Heyman. If I owned a wrestling company I'd try my hardest to get him on board because he adapts to the changes in the business much better than Cornette. Jim Cornette still seems to think booking Mid-South for a nationally televised company in 2015 is a good idea. Though I'd prefer to have Bernie Madoff handling my company's finances than either of them. I liked what you said about Heyman. He is more creative. Cornette is kind of paint by numbers.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 4, 2015 7:07:28 GMT -5
If Heyman was so creative why did he need to have a wrestling company where people set things on fire and used barbed wire and chairshots and blood etc.
I've never been able to marry up the description bestowed upon him of 'creative genius' and the reality of someone who used so many cheap tricks and gimmicks that in the end people became immune to them. It feels a bit like giving the Nobel prize for literature to a book that has really cool pop-out pages.
I disagree with Cornette on many things but at least he is what I call a creative mind. Who understands how to sculpt a wrestling angle. In reality Heyman in someways was just Russo without corporate restrictions. Let's do a bunch of crazy **** and then you run in with the chair and you wth the baseball bat, you go through a table, you set the ladder on fire and then you brawl to the back covered in blood with a needle sticking out your ass.
It doesn't take a creative mind, to my way of thinking, to work out that if you hit a guy on the head with a weapon until he bleeds profusely that people will develop a thirst for blood and go crazy over it. So for I'm a Jim Cornette guy, given the options, because I don't think there was anything exceptionally creative about much of what ECW did in order to gain the notoriety it did.
A game show that has a woman standing there with no top on will be entertaining and it may get viewers but it won't be 'creative genius', it'll be using tits to get viewers - something it does't really need a creative mind to deduce will get viewers.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 4, 2015 8:54:47 GMT -5
If Heyman was so creative why did he need to have a wrestling company where people set things on fire and used barbed wire and chairshots and blood etc. I've never been able to marry up the description bestowed upon him of 'creative genius' and the reality of someone who used so many cheap tricks and gimmicks that in the end people became immune to them. It feels a bit like giving the Nobel prize for literature to a book that has really cool pop-out pages. I disagree with Cornette on many things but at least he is what I call a creative mind. Who understands how to sculpt a wrestling angle. In reality Heyman in someways was just Russo without corporate restrictions. Let's do a bunch of crazy **** and then you run in with the chair and you wth the baseball bat, you go through a table, you set the ladder on fire and then you brawl to the back covered in blood with a needle sticking out your ass. It doesn't take a creative mind, to my way of thinking, to work out that if you hit a guy on the head with a weapon until he bleeds profusely that people will develop a thirst for blood and go crazy over it. So for I'm a Jim Cornette guy, given the options, because I don't think there was anything exceptionally creative about much of what ECW did in order to gain the notoriety it did. A game show that has a woman standing there with no top on will be entertaining and it may get viewers but it won't be 'creative genius', it'll be using tits to get viewers - something it does't really need a creative mind to deduce will get viewers. You do realise you're judging the total creative output of the man on something that made up about 60% of one of three companies/shows he booked. ECW wasn't all about garbage wrestling, even if that was the gimmick it is most notorious for; Heyman also had fantastic booking runs with OVW and SmackDown, which had none of the stuff you mentioned in your post. Hell, the SD stuff alone is considered by most to be the best WWE has been this century.
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Jan 4, 2015 12:08:40 GMT -5
Cornette is a little backwards on his views when it comes to wrestling, but I really like the guy. He's also hilarious and I could listen to him to talk for hours.
Heyman, on the other hand, I find to be an *ahem* extreme piece of shit. If he's on television, I'm reaching for the remote as fast as possible.
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Post by arrx on Jan 4, 2015 23:04:58 GMT -5
If Heyman was so creative why did he need to have a wrestling company where people set things on fire and used barbed wire and chairshots and blood etc. I've never been able to marry up the description bestowed upon him of 'creative genius' and the reality of someone who used so many cheap tricks and gimmicks that in the end people became immune to them. It feels a bit like giving the Nobel prize for literature to a book that has really cool pop-out pages. I disagree with Cornette on many things but at least he is what I call a creative mind. Who understands how to sculpt a wrestling angle. In reality Heyman in someways was just Russo without corporate restrictions. Let's do a bunch of crazy **** and then you run in with the chair and you wth the baseball bat, you go through a table, you set the ladder on fire and then you brawl to the back covered in blood with a needle sticking out your ass. It doesn't take a creative mind, to my way of thinking, to work out that if you hit a guy on the head with a weapon until he bleeds profusely that people will develop a thirst for blood and go crazy over it. So for I'm a Jim Cornette guy, given the options, because I don't think there was anything exceptionally creative about much of what ECW did in order to gain the notoriety it did. A game show that has a woman standing there with no top on will be entertaining and it may get viewers but it won't be 'creative genius', it'll be using tits to get viewers - something it does't really need a creative mind to deduce will get viewers. I take you did not watch much of ECW if that's all you can take away from Paul Heyman running that promotion.
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Post by Macho Pichu on Jan 4, 2015 23:14:13 GMT -5
I go back and forth on my opinion of Cornette, but I always enjoy Paul Heyman. As a promoter, he's as innovative as they come. As a manager (for anyone but Cesaro, anyway), he makes his client look like an untouchable superhuman.
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 4, 2015 23:37:42 GMT -5
Bobby Heenan guy.
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Post by froggyfrog on Jan 5, 2015 0:45:05 GMT -5
Heyman. He looks forward while Cornette looks backwards
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 1:02:42 GMT -5
If Heyman was so creative why did he need to have a wrestling company where people set things on fire and used barbed wire and chairshots and blood etc. I've never been able to marry up the description bestowed upon him of 'creative genius' and the reality of someone who used so many cheap tricks and gimmicks that in the end people became immune to them. It feels a bit like giving the Nobel prize for literature to a book that has really cool pop-out pages. I disagree with Cornette on many things but at least he is what I call a creative mind. Who understands how to sculpt a wrestling angle. In reality Heyman in someways was just Russo without corporate restrictions. Let's do a bunch of crazy **** and then you run in with the chair and you wth the baseball bat, you go through a table, you set the ladder on fire and then you brawl to the back covered in blood with a needle sticking out your ass. It doesn't take a creative mind, to my way of thinking, to work out that if you hit a guy on the head with a weapon until he bleeds profusely that people will develop a thirst for blood and go crazy over it. So for I'm a Jim Cornette guy, given the options, because I don't think there was anything exceptionally creative about much of what ECW did in order to gain the notoriety it did. A game show that has a woman standing there with no top on will be entertaining and it may get viewers but it won't be 'creative genius', it'll be using tits to get viewers - something it does't really need a creative mind to deduce will get viewers. I take you did not watch much of ECW if that's all you can take away from Paul Heyman running that promotion. My guess is the entire post was just a troll job. Not to mention, the huge difference between booking storylines (Heyman's job in ECW) and the choice of the moves/weapons used to construct a match (each wrestler's job in ECW).
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 5, 2015 1:13:38 GMT -5
Each of them bring their positives and negatives to a wrestling company.
Heyman is a guy you need on a creative team, but you don't let him anyway near the finances.
Cornette is a guy who can identify what's wrong, but doesn't necessarily know what's right.
If I was running WWE, I'd hire both of them. Both are valuable resources.
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Post by HisRoyalGreeness on Jan 6, 2015 10:59:05 GMT -5
I'm hardcore old school. I'll take em both.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 6, 2015 12:57:31 GMT -5
Wasn't Cornette booking in 1996 when WCW was beginning to kick WWF's tail? I seem to remember a dirtsheet report (so take that for what it's worth) that while WCW was unveiling (or teasing to unveil) new nWo members each week, WWF was trotting out Bart Gunn vs. The Good main events on Raw and Cornette couldn't figure out what the fans wouldn't respond) Yeah, Corny was on the booking team from early-'96 until mid-'97.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 8, 2015 12:05:14 GMT -5
I'm a Cornette guy. Maybe he doesn't book to the tastes of modern wrestling fans, but...I'm not a modern wrestling fan. I know it, and am happy with it.
I think Heyman is a fantastic performer and could create more compelling programming than we're getting now, but that's as far as it goes for me.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 8, 2015 12:14:50 GMT -5
Wasn't Cornette booking in 1996 when WCW was beginning to kick WWF's tail? I seem to remember a dirtsheet report (so take that for what it's worth) that while WCW was unveiling (or teasing to unveil) new nWo members each week, WWF was trotting out Bart Gunn vs. The Goon main events on Raw and Cornette couldn't figure out what the fans wouldn't respond) EDIT: Misspelled "The Goon" Wasn't Cornette booking in 1996 when WCW was beginning to kick WWF's tail? I seem to remember a dirtsheet report (so take that for what it's worth) that while WCW was unveiling (or teasing to unveil) new nWo members each week, WWF was trotting out Bart Gunn vs. The Good main events on Raw and Cornette couldn't figure out what the fans wouldn't respond) Yeah, Corny was on the booking team from early-'96 until mid-'97. New NWO members was a novelty, that was leading to the inevitable staleness. If Cornette was booking WWF in 1996 and 1997, my respect for him has increased, because that period had some solid feuds, like Bulldog vs HBK, and Austin vs Bret, and a hilarious one with Ahmed vs Goldust.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 8, 2015 12:36:49 GMT -5
Not really a fan of either of their booking styles, but Heyman is a MUCH better on-screen character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 12:55:55 GMT -5
I'm a dirty dutch mantel guy
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on Jan 8, 2015 13:00:18 GMT -5
I'm doing it for what they are doing right now. Heyman is one of the most interesting people in pro wrestling and Jim Cornette hosts a podcast with the absolute WORST co host I have ever heard in my life and I have no damn idea why she is given a platform to spout her shit off cause she knows as much about pro wrestling as I do quantum physics.
Heyman 100%
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
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Post by Square on Jan 8, 2015 13:08:04 GMT -5
I liked Cornette better until I discovered wrestling podcasts. Hearing Cornette shoot (or even "shoot") was highly entertaining and insightful at first but lately he comes off as such an ass. Heyman just comes off as a man who made bad business decisions AND THAT CO HOST OF HIS. GOD DAMN SHE'S AWFUL. I may have worked myself up over this
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 8, 2015 13:46:49 GMT -5
Gary Hart guy
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 8, 2015 13:52:08 GMT -5
New NWO members was a novelty, that was leading to the inevitable staleness. If Cornette was booking WWF in 1996 and 1997, my respect for him has increased, because that period had some solid feuds, like Bulldog vs HBK, and Austin vs Bret, and a hilarious one with Ahmed vs Goldust. Yeah, but that isn't what I was arguing. I was repeating an old report that Cornette couldn't figure out why they were losing the ratings war when they were trotting out Billy Gunn vs. Aldo Montoya. Cornette cannot be credited for bringing on the Attitude Era. No, but he was certainly part of the team that began the rebuilding. All the pieces were there, but needed time to develop. Once Austin, Rock, HHH, Foley etc...found their ideal characters, WCW was up shit creek. I seriously doubt Cornette was at a loss to explain why they were losing the ratings battle. WCW was loaded with big names. He would have known it would bring them success, in the short term at least.
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