Stop With The Legends

[celtics543]

Before I make my point, let me say that I've been watching since the early 90's and I LOVE the guys who were around then. Hogan, Piper, Bret, Shawn, Diesel, Razor, etc were my heroes growing up. In the attitude era I loved Austin, Rock, Angle, Undertaker, all those guys.

This has to stop though. I'm sick of seeing the current guys just get dominated both physically and verbally by the old guys. Unless they're going to wrestle full time, like Jericho, then the WWE needs to stop using the legends to bury the younger talent. One of the major problems I see that makes today different from the attitude era is that back then they were much more willing to let the new guys get over. Today they let guys get over just enough but they keep beating it into the fans that the new guys aren't nearly as great as the older guys. Imagine they did this back in 1998 when Steve Austin was getting over? If they had Hacksaw Jim Duggan or Greg Valentine show up and just abuse Austin and make him look bad to the fans. It would've killed his momentum. That's what they're doing now.

I will say that the segment with Flair/Hogan/HBK was booked perfectly. The old guys added to the show and then Big Show came out and they all acted afraid before he KO'd Flair with one punch after no selling Flair's offense. Hogan and HBK looked too afraid to try anything with him and it made Big Show look good. The problem is that Big Show is already established and has wrestled all of those guys before. When you put out the NAO, NWO, and APA and they dominate a new team like the Ascension, that does nothing but bury them. There's no "rub" just from being in the ring with those guys.

Again, I love the legends and I tune in specifically to see them but in ten years who are they going to bring in as the "legends"? They can't keep relying on attitude era guys to bring up the ratings when things aren't going well. Eventually the new crop of guys need to be given a chance to outshine the guys that came before them. It's a natural line:

Sammartino to Backlund to Hogan to Bret/Shawn to Austin to Rock to Cena. Every one of those guys has been the face of the company and everyone of them was painted at the time as if they were better than the one that came before, until now. Now the WWE paints the picture that Austin/Rock/Hogan were the best of all time and no one can even touch them. Cena is sort of on their level but everyone else has been buried.

I hate to be cynical but there's no one currently that makes me excited to watch. Guys have been stifled creatively and it's obvious. Roman Reigns is having his promos written for him and they're terrible but from the sounds of it they let the legends ad-lib out there and they're actually entertaining. Guys have to be allowed to think for themselves or the entire wrestling business is going to go down in flames. For the first time in a while I don't think wrestling is better today than it was ten years ago and I don't see anyone that is going to bring it back to that level anytime soon.

[Jeff Mangum PI]

But how they can get more viewers if they don't constantly remind them how awesome Raw was 15 years ago?

[Mochi Lone Wolf]

As you said, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The way they did the panel was the right way, the stuff with the Ascension was just completely ass backwards.


I don't see the point in having guys like the APA and the NAO destroy a tag team that they seemed to have been pretty high on to begin with. It's fine with someone like Heath Slater who's an enhancement guy that they have absolutely no plans for, but when you have a team that you're supposedly trying to push, having them get destroyed, not just beat up, destroyed by guys who have barely wrestled in over 10 years is dumb. Not to mention that it's not like Connor and Viktor got any offense on those guys whatsoever, they maybe got one punch in on the initial exchange and then got the shit beat out of them.

Why in the living hell should I take them seriously as threats now?


I'm not a fan of The Ascension but if they have them job to the goddamned New Age Outlaws this Sunday, I'll rip my f****** hair out.

[Just call me D.j.m.]

But they built this business, you guys.

Or something.

[Gravedigger's Biscuits]

Yeah, let's remove what are often the most over and entertaining part of the show so WWE can still not utilise the guys they have correctly.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

The Ascension thing can be done right from here, though. The Ascension were ganged up on, in a non-match encounter, by a shitload of old guys. Also, the NAO were actually tag champions as recently as a year ago so it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that they could compete with the Ascension.

Where the troubles could REALLY start is in the match with the NAO. If they lose that, cleanly, they're practically dead in the water. What should instead happen is that they kick the NAO's ass, even in a competitive match, win decisively, and then continue to beat the shit out of them. Maybe even cheat despite having the match won already.

[Deleted]

Legends panel shows they have a use - Ascension segment shows they can also ruin.

[Some Guy]

If The Ascension takes out JBL, it's a huge win in my book.

[pegasuswarrior]

Made the same point in the RAW thread. Good to see others with the same disgust.

I tune in to NXT when I can. Love the build of these new threats. And then they get jobbed out to old guys who should be jobbing right and left if they want to be in a ring.

Much respect for the forerunners. I nostalgia pop with the best of em. None of the seven guys in the ring, however, have ever "gone away." There was nothing to be gained in that segment other than one of two things: 1) those seven have a nostalgic standoff against each other or 2) one or all of the seven end up in intensive care via The Ascension

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Jan 20, 2015 8:39:44 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

The Ascension thing can be done right from here, though. The Ascension were ganged up on, in a non-match encounter, by a shitload of old guys.

It's kind of why I'm hesitant to call it a burial. That was essentially a 7-on-2 advantage, with at least four or five of them being in decent shape. I mean, yeah, they're old and only three of them actually threw a punch, but they're not Hogan-esque semi-cripples. Only Hall would definitely not be able to do anything because of his heart issues.

Are we so used to Cena overcoming the numbers game that we don't know how to react when logic happens and people actually succumb to it (see also the 5-on-1 Bryan beatdowns in 2013)?

[Deleted]

I agree with the thread title, as last night I was almost embarrassed by a few of these legends.

Shawn hiding behind Hogan, Hogan not standing up to Big Show, Flair looking like a completely joke (moreso than ever) with his offense, Road Dogg's awful dialogue, and Hall, Nash & X-Pac looking really goddamn old.

I've always been pro-nostalgia trips, but something about last night's appearances really irked me.

Then again, having to watch that awful RAW last night just in the hopes of seeing legends appearances (which ultimately disappointed) really irked me too.

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

Should have brought out Barbarian and Meng, then it would be believable that the Ascension would be destroyed. Hell add in another 75 to The Ascension's side, and it would still be believable that Barbarian and Meng would destroy everyone with no problem.

[gr1990]

I usually complain about relying too much on past names to pop a crowd/rating but they were generally used well last night. Flair, Hogan and HBK were used to put over numerous guys in the Rumble. The Ascension are basically 3MB in facepaint and who knows, they may destroy the Outlaws at the Rumble, this could just be the set-up to them finally putting their money where their mouth is. The only segment that rubbed me the wrong way, even if it had some good lines, was the Kliq backstage stuff with Hunter.

He STILL can't pass up an opportunity to be the coolest and the baddest and passive-aggressively bury the current talent, even though he's starting and ending the night as the pompous corporate boss hatching a scheme and then getting his comeuppance. It would have helped set up the final segment if he'd been all distant and uptight with his old degenerate friends and basically said 'grow up, guys, I don't do that anymore, I'm a businessman' and come across as a complete corporate sellout, instead they literally called his Authority persona a 'gimmick' and took playful, chummy jibes at one another before full-on corpsing at the end.

But overall, when we've seen an unfit Rock end the longest title reign of modern times just to wrestle three average-at-best matches and disappear again having only put over the one person on the current roster who doesn't need a rub, Kevin Nash headline a pay-per-view as the culmination of a storyline that was supposed to take the company into a new era, and another bloated middle-aged past name in Batista positioned to main event Mania ahead of the hottest babyface in over a decade, stuff like last night is harmless to say the least.

[thecrusherwi]

I just feel bad for the kids watching today's product. These Monday Night War guys haven't been relevant for 15 years! When I was a kid and they'd trot out Chief Jay Strongbow or Thunderbolt Patterson or these old timers, I instantly lost interest.

I can't imagine how confused and bored I would be if every week a guy like Ivan Putski would come out and tell Nailz "you're an innocent man? Well if the charge is being entertaining you sure are!" And then lays him without breaking a sweat. All while big bad Big Bossman was in the hospital from injuries he sustained from Nailz. I'd think both Nailz and Bossman were wimps. And then I'd wonder where Ivan Putski went. And then I'd change the channel and watch Power Rangers.

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2015 10:35:19 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

I just feel bad for the kids watching today's product. These Monday Night War guys haven't been relevant for 15 years! When I was a kid and they'd trot out Chief Jay Strongbow or Thunderbolt Patterson or these old timers, I instantly lost interest.

I can't imagine how confused and bored I would be if every week a guy like Ivan Putski would come out and tell Nailz "you're an innocent man? Well if the charge is being entertaining you sure are!" And then lays him without breaking a sweat. All while big bad Big Bossman was in the hospital from injuries he sustained from Nailz. I'd think both Nailz and Bossman were wimps. And then I'd wonder where Ivan Putski went. And then I'd change the channel and watch Power Rangers.

Yeah, imagine if crap like tht happened before WWE became a
monopoly.

No way would people put up with that crap.

[celtics543]

I'm glad you guys agree. I love seeing the legends and think they can be used effectively but back when there was competition they couldn't just trot them out and put them over new talent. It's not like in 2002 when Hogan/Hall/Nash came back and could still actually wrestle. Now they come back, verbally and physically win an encounter and because they can't physically bump anymore they never get any comeuppance.

If the Ascension destroy the NAO this weekend then fine that helps them but this will happen again. It happens when one of the legends comes out and the guy in the ring acts frightened even though the guy is 15 years past his prime and in terrible shape. It happens when something like Snuka/Piper happens at Royal Rumble 2008 and every guy bumps for them. I understand it's respect and I understand it's because those guys were heroes for the current group of guys but it makes them all look weak. When Jimmy Snuka is putting you down with one punch at 70 years old when he wasn't putting down guys with one punch in his prime it makes the current group of guys look really bad.

If WCW still existed or TNA was a legitimate second option, then this wouldn't happen because the ratings war wouldn't allow it to. Not to mention every younger fan has no idea who any of these guys are beyond just seeing them at these reunion shows and in WWE Network pieces. The pops have gotten smaller and smaller over the years for these guys coming back. Whether it's Hogan, Rock, NWO, DX, or whoever, the pops aren't what they used to be and it's because the kids have no idea why they're important.

[mizerable]

The thing I hated the most was the nWo as babyfaces. That's absurb on so many levels especially since they did it before.

I usually hate legend spots for this reason. Or they'll have "dancing legends"...because wrestling should be about fun. It's stupid.

[Nickybojelais]

It has been a prevalent ideology within the company that if you are a celebrity, or an old wrestler who hasn't laced up his boots competitively for a decade, you MUST always make the current roster look like crap.

I seriously cant think of any other industry which does this.

[Deleted]

Can't believe people are saying positive things about that panel segment. We had to watch these guys slowly walk to the ring with their music blaring, sit on chairs in a carpeted ring while that goof Byron Saxton asked them softball questions, and they do a bunch of "we're old now guys! HA!" humor. That was f***ing terrible. So it led to Roman Reigns clotheslining Big Show over the rope, big deal. There's a million scenarios they could've done to lead to that moment. Involving Flair didn't get Show more over as a heel, it didn't get Reigns more over as a face, it meant nothing.

The fact that these guys are given so much focus on a go home show for the Rumble, where the favorites to win the match felt like afterthoughts, is such a sad state of affairs. The new crop of talent does NOT need these old guys to "put them over", they need them to get the hell out of the way.

[mcstoklasa]

Jan 20, 2015 11:24:41 GMT -5 Nickybojelais said:

It has been a prevalent ideology within the company that if you are a celebrity, or an old wrestler who hasn't laced up his boots competitively for a decade, you MUST always make the current roster look like crap.

I seriously cant think of any other industry which does this.

When did this happen last night exactly?


Big Show beat up Flair and scared off Hulk and HBK

The Ascension have been flapping their gums about how theyre the best tag team ever, so we had a segment last night where, what was it, 3 or 4 other legendary tag teams came out and ganged up on them.

Sting distracted The Authority.