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Post by Nickybojelais on Jan 20, 2015 11:43:50 GMT -5
It has been a prevalent ideology within the company that if you are a celebrity, or an old wrestler who hasn't laced up his boots competitively for a decade, you MUST always make the current roster look like crap. I seriously cant think of any other industry which does this. When did this happen last night exactly? Big Show beat up Flair and scared off Hulk and HBK The Ascension have been flapping their gums about how theyre the best tag team ever, so we had a segment last night where, what was it, 3 or 4 other legendary tag teams came out and ganged up on them. Sting distracted The Authority. I couldn't tell you how it happened last night because I haven't witnessed it yet. I'm talking about the 95% of the times in the past where the current roster come off looking worst in any encounter with Legends. From how you describe it, regardless of how many people it took, the concensus will be "Ha Ha The Ascension sure got their arses kicked by those old timers last night"
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 20, 2015 11:56:36 GMT -5
Well yeah there have been soem cases, like Rock owning Rusev and then going back to Hollywood, but it could be argued jsut being in a segment with Rock elevated Rusev
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Post by The Tee Why on Jan 20, 2015 12:03:15 GMT -5
Its just annoying and only a cheap payday for the legends.
If they really felt the need, have them as guest hosts at most.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Jan 20, 2015 12:07:41 GMT -5
The thing I hated the most was the nWo as babyfaces. That's absurb on so many levels especially since they did it before. I usually hate legend spots for this reason. Or they'll have "dancing legends"...because wrestling should be about fun. It's stupid. That's what I thought when Edge and Christian were back recently, doing 5 second poses and such. They were heelish dorks when they used to do that!
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Post by Lazy peon on Jan 20, 2015 12:16:13 GMT -5
I'm tired of legends because we see them all the time. Oh, Hulk Hogan is here? Yeah he was here several times in the past year. And he doesn't do anything except hype the next PPV or something boring. I like nostalgia as much as the next guy but WWE way way way overdoes it. I get it, new generation was awesome. Attitude era was awesome. Shut the f*** up about it already.
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Post by The Tee Why on Jan 20, 2015 12:32:28 GMT -5
I'm tired of legends because we see them all the time. Oh, Hulk Hogan is here? Yeah he was here several times in the past year. And he doesn't do anything except hype the next PPV or something boring. I like nostalgia as much as the next guy but WWE way way way overdoes it. I get it, new generation was awesome. Attitude era was awesome. Shut the f*** up about it already. Yah WWE just kinda thinks "meh we were awesome before, if we bring back old guys, for maybe just one night we'll be awesome again!" Christ, I mean for the split second it's fun but in the next split second I'm thinking "man..what the f***"
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 20, 2015 12:40:23 GMT -5
The Ascension thing can be done right from here, though. The Ascension were ganged up on, in a non-match encounter, by a shitload of old guys. It's kind of why I'm hesitant to call it a burial. That was essentially a 7-on-2 advantage, with at least four or five of them being in decent shape. I mean, yeah, they're old and only three of them actually threw a punch, but they're not Hogan-esque semi-cripples. Only Hall would definitely not be able to do anything because of his heart issues. Are we so used to Cena overcoming the numbers game that we don't know how to react when logic happens and people actually succumb to it (see also the 5-on-1 Bryan beatdowns in 2013)? I'd still call it a burial. Not in the sense that the old dudes couldn't believablely beat them up but in the sense that these goobers got their asses handed to them in what was essentially a fair fight (remember, the NAO did most of the damage with JBL picking up the scraps) after talking all that shit about being a better team. Granted, they are heels but christ, let them gain some momentum and establish themselves before you do something like this. A burial is anything that intentionally makes someone look bad. I can't think of too many more angles in recent WWE history that were more blatant with that than this one. Could they come back from it? Sure. But, this was a burial. No two ways about it. The Ascension thing can be done right from here, though. The Ascension were ganged up on, in a non-match encounter, by a shitload of old guys. Also, the NAO were actually tag champions as recently as a year ago so it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that they could compete with the Ascension. Where the troubles could REALLY start is in the match with the NAO. If they lose that, cleanly, they're practically dead in the water. What should instead happen is that they kick the NAO's ass, even in a competitive match, win decisively, and then continue to beat the shit out of them. Maybe even cheat despite having the match won already. I'll even disagree with this. The Ascension needs to straight up squash the Outlaws if they are gonna be taken seriously now. The hell do the Outlaws need a competitve match for? They aren't coming to work the next day, the Ascension is. The fact that we are even talking about the NAO being competitive shows how screwed up WWE's mentality is right now.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 20, 2015 12:43:32 GMT -5
Can't believe people are saying positive things about that panel segment. We had to watch these guys slowly walk to the ring with their music blaring, sit on chairs in a carpeted ring while that goof Byron Saxton asked them softball questions, and they do a bunch of "we're old now guys! HA!" humor. That was f***ing terrible. So it led to Roman Reigns clotheslining Big Show over the rope, big deal. There's a million scenarios they could've done to lead to that moment. Involving Flair didn't get Show more over as a heel, it didn't get Reigns more over as a face, it meant nothing. The fact that these guys are given so much focus on a go home show for the Rumble, where the favorites to win the match felt like afterthoughts, is such a sad state of affairs. The new crop of talent does NOT need these old guys to "put them over", they need them to get the hell out of the way. But we got Storytime with Grandpa where we learned that Hogan and Flair weren't stars until they won the Royal Rumble.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jan 20, 2015 12:46:58 GMT -5
I get Triple H and the "Too cool for school" thing he does from time to time burying the roster. However, let's not kid ourselves about the Ascension. These guys were getting shit on before. They're going to get shit on after. It's a 1980s gimmick that should have stayed in the 80s.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 12:53:21 GMT -5
The Ascension thing can be done right from here, though. The Ascension were ganged up on, in a non-match encounter, by a shitload of old guys. Also, the NAO were actually tag champions as recently as a year ago so it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility that they could compete with the Ascension. Where the troubles could REALLY start is in the match with the NAO. If they lose that, cleanly, they're practically dead in the water. What should instead happen is that they kick the NAO's ass, even in a competitive match, win decisively, and then continue to beat the shit out of them. Maybe even cheat despite having the match won already. I'll even disagree with this. The Ascension needs to straight up squash the Outlaws if they are gonna be taken seriously now. The hell do the Outlaws need a competitve match for? They aren't coming to work the next day, the Ascension is. The fact that we are even talking about the NAO being competitive shows how screwed up WWE's mentality is right now. I love the NAO, will always mark for them, but I agree with this. If... IF they're serious about pushing The Ascension and not just making them The Losers of Doom, they need to squash the NAO at the Rumble. Otherwise they're done.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 20, 2015 18:11:37 GMT -5
It's like when Roddy Piper talks about Wrestlemania 1 and how Vince wanted Mr. T to get to the pin and Roddy refused. He said that it doesn't make sense to put someone over who isn't going to be there next week and that Hogan making the cover was necessary. The problem is that now if someone stands up to the authority there's no where else for them to go work. Piper had the NWA if he really didn't want that ending. As much as they get crapped on it probably wouldn't hurt for another kliq right now or another guy or two like Roddy who just refuses to go with the booking.
Bottom line, the WWE is more focused on getting guys over who aren't going to be there next week than they are getting the guys over who are supposed to be carrying the company week in and week out.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jan 20, 2015 18:14:58 GMT -5
What about when the shield destroyed the New age outlaws at Mania?
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Jan 20, 2015 18:37:00 GMT -5
Add me to the group of people who is tired of the same legend.
Let's get some different legends;
Corporal Kirchner Brutus Beefcake Demolition Haku Ken Shamrock King Kong Bundy Lex Luger The Mountie Rick Martel Warlord
The list goes on and on..
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 20, 2015 18:41:29 GMT -5
I could easily believe that Haku and the Barbarian could still beat the shit out of most of the roster.
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nonrev
Don Corleone
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Post by nonrev on Jan 20, 2015 20:27:06 GMT -5
I love the NAO, will always mark for them, but I agree with this. If... IF they're serious about pushing The Ascension and not just making them The Losers of Doom, they need to squash the NAO at the Rumble. Otherwise they're done. Assuming there is any continuity, from now on when the Ascension make their entrance I want them to walk over to JBL and kick the shit out of him. Before ever single match. It would get them over. Anytime Ron Simmons goes for his phrase, they are also there to hit their finishers on him before he can utter it.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 20, 2015 20:27:56 GMT -5
I thought Raw was one of the best I've seen in a long time. Then again, I am an older viewer but if you didn't want nostalgia maybe you shouldn't have watched an episode called RAW REUNION. I thought all the legends were used perfectly. The Panel segment was entertaining and sufficiently hyped the Rumble. I'd rather Reigns do this than another promo. The backstage NWO sketch wasn't hilarious but at least it was short and not cringe inducing. As for the Ascension beat down, what's not to like? Those guys suck and it was cool to see so many legendary tag teams in the same ring. Sting at the end was just icing on the cake.
Normally I agree that put too much focus on legends, often at the expense of younger talent. I've raged about it in the past but last night wasn't one of those times.
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Jan 20, 2015 21:51:58 GMT -5
It has been a prevalent ideology within the company that if you are a celebrity, or an old wrestler who hasn't laced up his boots competitively for a decade, you MUST always make the current roster look like crap. I seriously cant think of any other industry which does this. When did this happen last night exactly? Big Show beat up Flair and scared off Hulk and HBK The Ascension have been flapping their gums about how theyre the best tag team ever, so we had a segment last night where, what was it, 3 or 4 other legendary tag teams came out and ganged up on them. Sting distracted The Authority. Think about this for a minute though. The Authority has been firing people and bullying people to where almost the entire roster is afraid to fight back. But all it takes is 1 guy in mid 50's to walk down the aisle point and suddenly Kane,HHH,Rollins and Big Show are shitting their bricks. How does this not make the entire roster look weak.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jan 20, 2015 22:42:58 GMT -5
The thing I hated the most was the nWo as babyfaces. That's absurb on so many levels especially since they did it before. I usually hate legend spots for this reason. Or they'll have "dancing legends"...because wrestling should be about fun. It's stupid. Yeah, the nWo being treated as revered legends respected by those who love the business completely misses the point of the nWo. The nWo should still be feared and loathed, a cautionary tale of what happens when a locker room lets anarchy run amok (this was actually handled perfectly in the early days of the Nexus, when Arn Anderson was warning everyone of what would transpire if they didn't nip it in the bud). They should not, I repeat, should NOT ever be trotted out as a folksy nostalgia act like Roddy Piper. If you want to get the nWo involved in these things? Have them run in and beat down other legends, then admonish the audience for not being able to move on. Have a group of current babyfaces run in and defend the other legends from the nWo, not whatever they pulled last night. Then again, I don't think Vince and the WWE writers ever understood what made the nWo special. They've certainly never been able to pull off a hostile takeover angle, since it completely defies the slick, organized variety show that Kevin Dunn specializes in.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 20, 2015 22:59:38 GMT -5
If The Ascension takes out JBL, it's a huge win in my book. It's probably building to that. Though I did get a bunch of satisfaction out of the JBL clothesline.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 20, 2015 23:00:08 GMT -5
Most of the time it's not even special, cuz it's dudes you've already seen a half dozen times that year. It just gets kinda tedious and corny.
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