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Post by benstudd on Jan 21, 2015 1:41:22 GMT -5
Worst part is how the WWE make these guys look so damn old that is sometime hard to watch. At least when Hogan and Flair were in TNA they were participating, sure they were not what they used to be but you would see what Flair was the best at doing, going crazy, doing devlilish things. Now these guys have 5 seconds promos and that is it. And they look weak.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 21, 2015 6:47:02 GMT -5
I thought Raw was one of the best I've seen in a long time. Then again, I am an older viewer but if you didn't want nostalgia maybe you shouldn't have watched an episode called RAW REUNION. I thought all the legends were used perfectly. The Panel segment was entertaining and sufficiently hyped the Rumble. I'd rather Reigns do this than another promo. The backstage NWO sketch wasn't hilarious but at least it was short and not cringe inducing. As for the Ascension beat down, what's not to like? Those guys suck and it was cool to see so many legendary tag teams in the same ring. Sting at the end was just icing on the cake. Normally I agree that put too much focus on legends, often at the expense of younger talent. I've raged about it in the past but last night wasn't one of those times. I'm more disappointed that the bar has been set at "not cringe-inducing" making the appearances and segments ok. I've been a fan for a long time, since the early 90's and I LOVE seeing the legends. I just wish they would do something productive that adds to the show instead of making everyone else look weak. If they were sticking around for an entire storyline then fine, but the way they do it is just completely backwards.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 7:29:02 GMT -5
My only issue with "Legends" is that they really don't seem all that legendary if you dust them off every year. That, and I guess hack booking. Old timers should primarily steal Ws by being smarter and more experienced than Today's guys, not just clean outdo them unless it's setup real inside and clever.
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Post by willywonka666 on Jan 21, 2015 7:36:01 GMT -5
So everyone hated the Ascension and thought they were jokes.
Now they feel sorry for them and don't understand why they're wasted.
Looks like the E got them over after all.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Jan 21, 2015 8:05:35 GMT -5
Think of it from a casual fans perspective with every single old guy no matter how famous or great they used to be. Could Alan Shearer come out of retirement tomorrow and dominate the English Premier League? No. And if he could you'd probably think "The EPL isn't so great"
Same with wrestling. It's a lot more common in the independents but when you bring in guys in their 50's or 60's to take on your top guy who is in his 20's or 30's it makes your young guy look terrible when he loses. The experienced veteran might have been able to get one over on the younger guy if he was late 30's or very early 40's but once the guy hits the mid 40's it becomes more and more unrealistic that he could compete with a young muscled up 28 year old let alone stand a chance at beating him.
The young guy should go over on the legend 100% of the time if WWE wants their product to be realistic.
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 21, 2015 8:22:44 GMT -5
Something something $9.99 something something
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Jan 21, 2015 8:24:35 GMT -5
Think of it from a casual fans perspective with every single old guy no matter how famous or great they used to be. Could Alan Shearer come out of retirement tomorrow and dominate the English Premier League? No. And if he could you'd probably think "The EPL isn't so great" Same with wrestling. It's a lot more common in the independents but when you bring in guys in their 50's or 60's to take on your top guy who is in his 20's or 30's it makes your young guy look terrible when he loses. The experienced veteran might have been able to get one over on the younger guy if he was late 30's or very early 40's but once the guy hits the mid 40's it becomes more and more unrealistic that he could compete with a young muscled up 28 year old let alone stand a chance at beating him. The young guy should go over on the legend 100% of the time if WWE wants their product to be realistic.C'mon now...
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Jan 21, 2015 8:51:16 GMT -5
Think of it from a casual fans perspective with every single old guy no matter how famous or great they used to be. Could Alan Shearer come out of retirement tomorrow and dominate the English Premier League? No. And if he could you'd probably think "The EPL isn't so great" Same with wrestling. It's a lot more common in the independents but when you bring in guys in their 50's or 60's to take on your top guy who is in his 20's or 30's it makes your young guy look terrible when he loses. The experienced veteran might have been able to get one over on the younger guy if he was late 30's or very early 40's but once the guy hits the mid 40's it becomes more and more unrealistic that he could compete with a young muscled up 28 year old let alone stand a chance at beating him. The young guy should go over on the legend 100% of the time if WWE wants their product to be realistic.C'mon now... I know, you're supposed to suspend your disbelief but you very rarely see a 60-70 year old man kicking a superheroes ass or a 60 -70 year old Cop beating down all the bad guys and saving the day in a film. The only way a wrestler should beat a young guy is either via something screwy such as a run in, DQ etc or an absolute fluke where he gets dominated for 10 minutes before rolling his opponent up.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Jan 21, 2015 11:36:17 GMT -5
I know, you're supposed to suspend your disbelief but you very rarely see a 60-70 year old man kicking a superheroes ass or a 60 -70 year old Cop beating down all the bad guys and saving the day in a film. The only way a wrestler should beat a young guy is either via something screwy such as a run in, DQ etc or an absolute fluke where he gets dominated for 10 minutes before rolling his opponent up. To use a superhero analogy, EVERY "legend" is supposed to be Wildcat from DC. I think that's what WWE wants us to believe. They could still beat anybody up and hit their finisher and pop the crowd and it'd still be awesome. That's why Hogan can do interviews and say "One more run, brother. One more title, brother. One more Wrestlemania main event, brother." and people buy in.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 21, 2015 11:38:40 GMT -5
WWE like to get the nostalgia pop, no matter what the cost to their full time roster.
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Post by celtics543 on Jan 21, 2015 11:53:25 GMT -5
I understand the nostalgia pop. It's why I don't have a problem with Hogan winning the title in 2002. He could still go, he was going to be around for a while, and he was super over. It's the guys that can't physically go anymore and aren't planning on being around that are the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 12:39:00 GMT -5
The main point has been made here. The Legends, clearly, still have a use to the company and the Legends Panel thing was a good example. The guys picked by the legends got a rub and Big Show got a rub smacking Flair about - who will then give it to Reigns. Logical.
The stupidity is when you have these legends, often closer to 70 than 40, going out and attacking current roster guys and dominating, it is stupid. I want to see the original Gracie guy go in and dominate UFC, it's what WWE does with this. Hulk Hogan SHOULD be royally smacked about. He can get a few good shots in but the result should be inevitable, he is hospitalised. Greatest ever or not, he is an old frail man and to imply even HBK nevermind someone like Rollins is in fear of him is silly.
It's booking I do not like. You could say.... I hate it.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 21, 2015 17:49:13 GMT -5
I thought Raw was one of the best I've seen in a long time. Then again, I am an older viewer but if you didn't want nostalgia maybe you shouldn't have watched an episode called RAW REUNION. I thought all the legends were used perfectly. The Panel segment was entertaining and sufficiently hyped the Rumble. I'd rather Reigns do this than another promo. The backstage NWO sketch wasn't hilarious but at least it was short and not cringe inducing. As for the Ascension beat down, what's not to like? Those guys suck and it was cool to see so many legendary tag teams in the same ring. Sting at the end was just icing on the cake. Normally I agree that put too much focus on legends, often at the expense of younger talent. I've raged about it in the past but last night wasn't one of those times. I'm more disappointed that the bar has been set at "not cringe-inducing" making the appearances and segments ok. I've been a fan for a long time, since the early 90's and I LOVE seeing the legends. I just wish they would do something productive that adds to the show instead of making everyone else look weak. If they were sticking around for an entire storyline then fine, but the way they do it is just completely backwards. Usually they just shill but I thought they used them perfectly on Raw. It was a reunion show and the only new guys they buried were Ascension, who suck and deserve to be buried. It's not like any of these legends are beating up anyone midcard or higher. It's always a jobber. And they were productive. They put over Ambrose, Bray, Bryan and the Rumble itself. Got knocked out by Big Show to set up a run in that puts Reigns over, Sting helped Cena win. I don't see the problem and I'm usually the first to complain. The only thing that's problematic is that they did it before the Rumble. The go home show for that should focus on the current talent. It would've been better as filler leading to a lesser PPV.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 21, 2015 18:16:06 GMT -5
So everyone hated the Ascension and thought they were jokes. Now they feel sorry for them and don't understand why they're wasted. Looks like the E got them over after all. It also helps they are NXT alumni and everything about NXT is awesome. Except for the wrestlers deemed persona non grata until they make the main roster. Legends has a place in WWE. I would like WWE to not use them so often but I don't want them to not use them because it "take away tv time for other".
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Jan 21, 2015 19:03:35 GMT -5
Gotta protect these 70 year olds!!
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Post by nwonursinghome on Jan 21, 2015 19:10:37 GMT -5
My cutoff is unless the legends can take bumps they should not be brought back. Just parade them out at the Hall of Fame event.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 21, 2015 20:55:24 GMT -5
Gotta protect these 70 year olds!! They don't look protected to me, they look old to me. Sure you had the Acsension being beat but the rest of the show, these Legends looked pretty old. Like I said at least in TNA Hogan and Flair were involved in the show, they looked like they still could get physical, in the WWE, all these guys literally look like they came out of an old home, sitting on their ass. This doesn't make me want to get the WWE Network.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jan 21, 2015 20:58:27 GMT -5
The thing I hated the most was the nWo as babyfaces. That's absurb on so many levels especially since they did it before. I usually hate legend spots for this reason. Or they'll have "dancing legends"...because wrestling should be about fun. It's stupid. Yeah, the nWo being treated as revered legends respected by those who love the business completely misses the point of the nWo. The nWo should still be feared and loathed, a cautionary tale of what happens when a locker room lets anarchy run amok (this was actually handled perfectly in the early days of the Nexus, when Arn Anderson was warning everyone of what would transpire if they didn't nip it in the bud). They should not, I repeat, should NOT ever be trotted out as a folksy nostalgia act like Roddy Piper. If you want to get the nWo involved in these things? Have them run in and beat down other legends, then admonish the audience for not being able to move on. Have a group of current babyfaces run in and defend the other legends from the nWo, not whatever they pulled last night. Then again, I don't think Vince and the WWE writers ever understood what made the nWo special. They've certainly never been able to pull off a hostile takeover angle, since it completely defies the slick, organized variety show that Kevin Dunn specializes in. It'd be like if in 20 years, they do a Raw Reunion and treat the Authority as beloved faces, when they were anything but during their heyday. It just doesn't make sense to have the friggin' nWo getting the "nostalgia pop", as it were.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jan 21, 2015 21:47:33 GMT -5
Yeah, the nWo being treated as revered legends respected by those who love the business completely misses the point of the nWo. The nWo should still be feared and loathed, a cautionary tale of what happens when a locker room lets anarchy run amok (this was actually handled perfectly in the early days of the Nexus, when Arn Anderson was warning everyone of what would transpire if they didn't nip it in the bud). They should not, I repeat, should NOT ever be trotted out as a folksy nostalgia act like Roddy Piper. If you want to get the nWo involved in these things? Have them run in and beat down other legends, then admonish the audience for not being able to move on. Have a group of current babyfaces run in and defend the other legends from the nWo, not whatever they pulled last night. Then again, I don't think Vince and the WWE writers ever understood what made the nWo special. They've certainly never been able to pull off a hostile takeover angle, since it completely defies the slick, organized variety show that Kevin Dunn specializes in. It'd be like if in 20 years, they do a Raw Reunion and treat the Authority as beloved faces, when they were anything but during their heyday. It just doesn't make sense to have the friggin' nWo getting the "nostalgia pop", as it were. Exactly. It'd be like warmly embracing the childhood bully who terrorized you, stole your lunch money, and dunked your head in the toilet. You're always going to carry those feelings of bitterness, even if 20 years have passed. It'd be one thing if it was just Kevin Nash and Scott Hall getting the legend treatment, but to do it wrapped under the nWo banner?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 22:33:47 GMT -5
WWE should make a concerted effort to legend-free for a year or two, including the likes of Triple H or Undertaker wrestling at Mania. It would force them to put all they've got into their full-time talent, and keep some matches between those talent fresh in order to have an attraction down the road. It would also help make a legend appearance mean something again. They have really flooded the nostalgia market over the last 3 or so years.
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