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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 7:58:28 GMT -5
None of them had serious neck injuries before they decided to push them as "the guy". Also Hogan, Rock, Austin and to a lesser but still considerable extent Cena, were all marketing dreams who were getting commercial deals, mainstream TV appearances, movie offers, toy endorsements etc, that Bryan, for one reason or another - doesn't. Bryan isn't THAT marketable I don't think. His look may appeal to a certain demographic but I don't think this is getting on the cover of any magazines any time soon It may be shallow and superficial...but it's kinda true. Kinda off-topic but,maybe not.Punk was marketable,he got a bunch of offers from different companies ,all that good jazz for marketing. Higher Ups still didn't give a danm.Bottom line is,WWE will do what WWE thinks.Besides MARKETABLE Heh, I actually have that on my desk right now
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Feb 1, 2015 8:31:45 GMT -5
Like I said earlier in this thread.... Hogan became the guy at 31. Bret became the guy at 37. Austin became the guy at 34. Rock became the guy at 27. Triple H "became the guy Vince wanted to push as their main guy for a bit" at 33. Cena became the guy at 28. Besides special circumstances, most guys become "the guy" in their 30s. By that point, they'll have matured enough, connected with the audience on a deeper level and they have it all down. Rock and Cena are special cases, extremely special cases mind you. Rock is a talent you only meet once every generation, he's special and hell he had to wait until Austin was out for that too. Cena on the other hand had to get it after the other 2 guys they tried to make their headliners were either too immature (Orton) or they just didn't have all the company was looking for (Batista). Cena had to be the first guy in the building and the last guy to leave AND be equipped with amazing mic skills, good wrestling skills, do whatever the company asked, be amazingly over AND have Wolverine healing to be "the guy". In order for someone to be "the guy" at a young age they have to be ridiculously gifted and they have to hit multiple areas. Reigns doesn't have that. Daniel Bryan is 33. He is the right age. That's it. It should be a no-brainer given this company's history but I guess not. None of them had serious neck injuries before they decided to push them as "the guy". Also Hogan, Rock, Austin and to a lesser but still considerable extent Cena, were all marketing dreams who were getting commercial deals, mainstream TV appearances, movie offers, toy endorsements etc, that Bryan, for one reason or another - doesn't. Bryan isn't THAT marketable I don't think. His look may appeal to a certain demographic but I don't think this is getting on the cover of any magazines any time soon It may be shallow and superficial...but it's kinda true. Yeah, cause nobody with long hair and a beard could ever have mainstream appea- Um...well, maybe the long hair's fine, and just the beard isn't marketa- Look, I don't disagree that Bryan would be easier to market if the beard was tidied up and trimmed, but I don't think his appearance holds him back nearly as much as WWE themselves think it does. Edit: And now I've made a post on whether Bryan's looks are good enough, like everybody else. Dammit, I swore i wouldn't get dragged into that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 8:51:29 GMT -5
None of them had serious neck injuries before they decided to push them as "the guy". Also Hogan, Rock, Austin and to a lesser but still considerable extent Cena, were all marketing dreams who were getting commercial deals, mainstream TV appearances, movie offers, toy endorsements etc, that Bryan, for one reason or another - doesn't. Bryan isn't THAT marketable I don't think. His look may appeal to a certain demographic but I don't think this is getting on the cover of any magazines any time soon It may be shallow and superficial...but it's kinda true. Yeah, cause nobody with long hair and a beard could ever have mainstream appea- Um...well, maybe the long hair's fine, and just the beard isn't marketa- Look, I don't disagree that Bryan would be easier to market if the beard was tidied up and trimmed, but I don't think his appearance holds him back nearly as much as WWE themselves think it does. Edit: And now I've made a post on whether Bryan's looks are good enough, like everybody else. Dammit, I swore i wouldn't get dragged into that. Your avatar is tremendous.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Feb 1, 2015 8:56:45 GMT -5
Your avatar is tremendous. Credit to the guy on these boards who made it years back, VersionOne I think. I don't even know how long it's been like that, but given I went almost 4 years without posting, it's been a while.
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CH Punk
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Post by CH Punk on Feb 1, 2015 10:27:26 GMT -5
Okay, look. One thing I don't want to hear anymore is that Reigns shouldn't be facing Lesnar because it's not believable that Roman could beat Brock. Okay, fair enough, but most of these same people want Bryan fighting Lesnar instead. As though that would be MORE credible? You could throw Reigns and Bryan into the machine from The Fly and combine them into one person with the best attributes of each and I would still expect Lesnar to crush them. I don't want D-Bry to fight Bork. Because I LIKE Bryan, and don't want him getting eaten and crapped out by that monster. Dude, it's pro wrestling. Suspension of disbelief is number one thing to do when you watch it. As for Reigns vs. Bryan's credibility, the problem most people have is that Reigns hasn't done much as a singles wrestler before getting his title match on top of being presented as a powerhouse, something that doesn't really work when you're going up against Brock Lesnar. Daniel Bryan has accomplished more than him and he's a presented as a never say die wrestler who always comes back from asskickings.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 10:27:54 GMT -5
I'm curious what exactly makes Reigns marketable really. He doesn't look very distinct or immediately recognizable - he looks like any bad boy character you'd see on the cover of Soap Digest.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 1, 2015 11:06:37 GMT -5
Personally, I think there needs to be some kind of major overhaul in the way that booking is operated. We need to get it back to a stage where WWE can have their absolute top guy, but it's still OK to not be that guy (if that makes sense). I mean, look at my favourite year in WWF history, 2000. They had their absolute top guys in The Rock and Triple H, but the vast majority of the card, be it the guys in the IC division like Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero, or the guys in the tag division like The Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian and Too Cool, or even the guys in the hardcore division like Crash and Steve Blackman... they were booked to their strengths and they were all over, and people were happy with that without clamoring for one or all of them to be in the main event. The issue today is that, outside of the main event, consistently strong booking is a crapshoot. The IC/US division is a punchline at this point. The tag division is going around in circles, which has damaged the reputation of the one actually strong booked team in the division (The Usos). And if you're not in either of those right now, your next appearance is more likely to be on a milk carton than on Monday Night RAW. I feel like Bryan is in a similar position in the company that someone like Guerrero was ten years ago, even to the point that their WrestleMania appearances seem to be following the exact same trajectory, but over that ten years that's seemingly become a bad thing because of WWE being careless in booking their midcard divisions. To quote Ricky Bobby, it has seemingly become so that "If you're not first, you're last". No way I'm reading through this entire thread but I do want to pop in and say you nailed it. At the end of the day, not everybody can or even needs to be the world champ. It is, in fact, very possible to have top level guys that rarely fight for the top title, let alone win it. The issue is that WWE has seemingly forgotten that to the point where fans have the perception that if a guy isn't at the very top, he's being "pushed aside." It's a vicious trap that WWE locked themselves into with their booking style.
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barelybeastmode
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Post by barelybeastmode on Feb 1, 2015 11:53:18 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how Bryan isn't marketable based on what I'm reading here. Is it just his appearance because as several folks have pointed out in several different threads that hippie mcbearderson look is absolutely IN right now. Some of my married friends are vying for their husbands to try that lumberjack look out. It's a thing, Bryan's appearance is fine.
Then there's the added bonus on how relatable and just plain real he is. The man literally chased down two potentially dangerous men they found burglarizing his home, caught and subdued one while waiting for the cops to arrive. I wanted to hop on his dick just reading about it. But the WWE barely mentioned it. Why? It was real and made him seem like a complete badass and a hero to boot. I just don't get their hesitation when it comes to Bryan.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 1, 2015 12:06:59 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how Bryan isn't marketable based on what I'm reading here. Is it just his appearance because as several folks have pointed out in several different threads that hippie mcbearderson look is absolutely IN right now. Some of my married friends are vying for their husbands to try that lumberjack look out. It's a thing, Bryan's appearance is fine. Then there's the added bonus on how relatable and just plain real he is. The man literally chased down two potentially dangerous men they found burglarizing his home, caught and subdued one while waiting for the cops to arrive. I wanted to hop on his dick just reading about it. But the WWE barely mentioned it. Why? It was real and made him seem like a complete badass and a hero to boot. I just don't get their hesitation when it comes to Bryan. Not only this but he was invited to be a part of the World Series victory parade. If that had been Cena or Reigns they would have replayed that ten times on every show... Yet it gets no mention. Bryan could probably cure cancer, end world hunger, rescue a baby from a burning building, land a crashing plane upside down, and take out all of ISIS with karate chops live on CNN and it would just get a one day blurb on the WWE website.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Feb 1, 2015 12:12:35 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how Bryan isn't marketable based on what I'm reading here. Is it just his appearance because as several folks have pointed out in several different threads that hippie mcbearderson look is absolutely IN right now. Some of my married friends are vying for their husbands to try that lumberjack look out. It's a thing, Bryan's appearance is fine. Then there's the added bonus on how relatable and just plain real he is. The man literally chased down two potentially dangerous men they found burglarizing his home, caught and subdued one while waiting for the cops to arrive. I wanted to hop on his dick just reading about it. But the WWE barely mentioned it. Why? It was real and made him seem like a complete badass and a hero to boot. I just don't get their hesitation when it comes to Bryan. Not only this but he was invited to be a part of the World Series victory parade. If that had been Cena or Reigns they would have replayed that ten times on every show... Yet it gets no mention. Bryan could probably cure cancer, end world hunger, rescue a baby from a burning building, land a crashing plane upside down, and take out all of ISIS with karate chops live on CNN and it would just get a one day blurb on the WWE website. At the very least, the Seahawks made a big deal of Bryan doing a Q&A for them, moreso than WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 12:21:51 GMT -5
I see this Wrestlemania being the same as 25. That year HHH vs Orton was the main event and the crowd was bored as it couldn't live up to Undertaker vs HBK and several other decent matches that year.
This year you'll have Bryan vs Ziggler which is almost guaranteed to be a great match. HHH vs Sting which will get a huge crowd reaction, and possibly an Undertaker match that will also get a huge reaction.
By the time Lesnar and Reigns wrestle the crowd will be burnt out and I doubt they have the ability to bring them back into it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 12:26:56 GMT -5
I'm not understanding how Bryan isn't marketable based on what I'm reading here. Is it just his appearance because as several folks have pointed out in several different threads that hippie mcbearderson look is absolutely IN right now. Some of my married friends are vying for their husbands to try that lumberjack look out. It's a thing, Bryan's appearance is fine. Then there's the added bonus on how relatable and just plain real he is. The man literally chased down two potentially dangerous men they found burglarizing his home, caught and subdued one while waiting for the cops to arrive. I wanted to hop on his dick just reading about it. But the WWE barely mentioned it. Why? It was real and made him seem like a complete badass and a hero to boot. I just don't get their hesitation when it comes to Bryan. Because he's not the guy Vince arbitrarily chose. That's all.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Feb 1, 2015 12:44:46 GMT -5
You know, I really hate the excuses of marketability when it comes to finding reasons not to push a guy. I still stand by the notion that the only thing that should be marketable is the believability in the character, much like comic books, movies, TV shows, some video games, and so forth are built upon.
The fact of the matter is, I don't care what the guy looks like, and I doubt many people do either. Professional wrestling shouldn't be about having the perfect specimen human being to get that attention. It takes more than that, and it's not just ability consider Shawn Michaels at his best in the 90's wasn't the best draw despite both hitting the attraction and technique demographics. Again at the end of the day, it's simply about who the fans are clearly behind. Nothing else matters.
Wrestling existed for many years with guys who were missing teeth, had cauliflower ears, many didn't look like bodybuilders and so forth. And wrestling thrived despite all the set backs that it was regional and targeted towards a specific audience.
When it comes down to it, cosmetic marketability is nothing more than another Vince McMahon illusion. So while my former point was that wrestling thrived despite it featuring guys who sometimes looked like they escaped the looney bin, it was Vince's reasoning that he could reach another audience by trying to clean it up by using whitemeat cartoon characters. And while he was right to an extent, it also helped the stigma that wrestling was "kid's stuff". Yet, Vince's biggest money makers throughout the years haven't always been the biggest or the most attractive looking guys, I mean there's been a few, but those examples of Cena and Rock are a very very very rare breed.
And really, at the end of the day...I don't think that a business where the object is to obliterate your opponent until you can pin him, you don't need to look like a JC Penney catalog model.
In an age where Duck Dynasty is a highly highly marketable show and has plenty of merchandise that sells extremely well, that anyone can tell me that a unkempt bearded man can't sell merchandise, then you too are out of touch.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 1, 2015 12:48:56 GMT -5
The beard thing has been a HUGE trend for a few years now. It's pretty much the exact opposite of un-marketable.
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 1, 2015 13:06:05 GMT -5
I think there is a bigger thing here.
Bryan has only been wrestling for a month since he was out with a career threatening injury. My guess is that WWE is waiting to see if he's actually able to wrestle a full schedule before they actually start putting him in the main event.
My prediction is if he stays healthy for the next few months he'll be in the title hunt.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 1, 2015 13:16:50 GMT -5
Most of the beards on those guys in the pictures are not their normal look. They tend to adopt certain looks for certain roles. It's very different, and with the exception of Russell Brand, most of those guys look far more presentable than Bryan, who looks unkempt. If his gimmick was the vegan, hipster, etc....that would be one thing, but those aren't his on screen personas. His veganism is barely mentioned these days, and the only time it was mentioned in the past was to either gain heat, or mock him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 13:26:36 GMT -5
Like I said earlier in this thread.... Hogan became the guy at 31. Bret became the guy at 37. Austin became the guy at 34. Rock became the guy at 27. Triple H "became the guy Vince wanted to push as their main guy for a bit" at 33. Cena became the guy at 28. Besides special circumstances, most guys become "the guy" in their 30s. By that point, they'll have matured enough, connected with the audience on a deeper level and they have it all down. Rock and Cena are special cases, extremely special cases mind you. Rock is a talent you only meet once every generation, he's special and hell he had to wait until Austin was out for that too. Cena on the other hand had to get it after the other 2 guys they tried to make their headliners were either too immature (Orton) or they just didn't have all the company was looking for (Batista). Cena had to be the first guy in the building and the last guy to leave AND be equipped with amazing mic skills, good wrestling skills, do whatever the company asked, be amazingly over AND have Wolverine healing to be "the guy". In order for someone to be "the guy" at a young age they have to be ridiculously gifted and they have to hit multiple areas. Reigns doesn't have that. Daniel Bryan is 33. He is the right age. That's it. It should be a no-brainer given this company's history but I guess not. None of them had serious neck injuries before they decided to push them as "the guy". Also Hogan, Rock, Austin and to a lesser but still considerable extent Cena, were all marketing dreams who were getting commercial deals, mainstream TV appearances, movie offers, toy endorsements etc, that Bryan, for one reason or another - doesn't. Bryan isn't THAT marketable I don't think. His look may appeal to a certain demographic but I don't think this is getting on the cover of any magazines any time soon It may be shallow and superficial...but it's kinda true. Austin just had a major neck injury before he was pushed, we know this. Don't say "well Austin was the guy before he had the neck injury" because he wasn't and his style changed afterwards. Beyond that, hear Bryan's comments on his neck these days. His neck is fine now. You're making it seem as though one bump and Bryan's paralyzed when the reality of the situation is that while he's had a neck injury, his health is great. Bryan said he feels physically better than ever. I'm tired of people here assuming it'll take 1 bump and Bryan's out again. You people are overestimating how damaged he out while looking over many others in the past who have had injuries but with them it's ok. People need to stop that.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 1, 2015 13:32:34 GMT -5
Okay, look. One thing I don't want to hear anymore is that Reigns shouldn't be facing Lesnar because it's not believable that Roman could beat Brock. Okay, fair enough, but most of these same people want Bryan fighting Lesnar instead. As though that would be MORE credible? You could throw Reigns and Bryan into the machine from The Fly and combine them into one person with the best attributes of each and I would still expect Lesnar to crush them. I don't want D-Bry to fight Bork. Because I LIKE Bryan, and don't want him getting eaten and crapped out by that monster. If you threw them in the machine with The Fly, Romiel Breigns would be able to spit acid and dissolve most of Brock's body, so there's that...
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 1, 2015 13:36:01 GMT -5
Most of the beards on those guys in the pictures are not their normal look. They tend to adopt certain looks for certain roles. It's very different, and with the exception of Russell Brand, most of those guys look far more presentable than Bryan, who looks unkempt. If his gimmick was the vegan, hipster, etc....that would be one thing, but those aren't his on screen personas. His veganism is barely mentioned these days, and the only time it was mentioned in the past was to either gain heat, or mock him. They don't mention the veganism anymore because he had to give it up after developing a soy allergy (and even before then, finding it virtually impossible to always find vegan establishments while travelling), and while he doesn't do the hipster thing, he DOES still do a toned down version of the proletarian gimmick (his interview on Monday about "The people with money think they have power, but they don't have any power...").
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Post by lookout on Feb 1, 2015 13:39:42 GMT -5
One can only hope, if it's true, that word of this gets out to the point that it makes the crowds ravenous against what the wwe is trying to push on us. I mean absolutely shitting on everything the wwe does with regard to the main event...making last year's reaction to bryan after the royal rumble look like a New Day pop.
I personally do not want it to happen because I think bryan deserves to be there or that I want bryan to be in the main event. In fact i have no problem with him not being in the main event. I just want the backlash to happen because mcmahon and the wwe thinks that their customer's opinions do not matter, while thinking they are the smartest guys in the world while all of us fans are just stupid. All the while they pretend they give the fans what they want.
With social media being as big as it is, it's no longer easy for a company like wwe to essentially flip off their fans. Word gets around, even to the great unwashed, what mcmahon and the wwe thinks. One can only hope for a #screwyouwwe or something to get going so that this obvious contempt for their own fans keeps making it into the real news/mainstream media...which in turn would hopefully hurt their bottom line. It's only when it starts to hurt their profits will they truly give a shit. Right now though, that's not happening.
I sure wish they had real competition because they would never be able to get away with the attitude they have if they did.
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