Mozenrath
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Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 1, 2015 2:17:45 GMT -5
It's funny, my girlfriend and I were just talking about him today. She watches all that Kardashian crap religiously and I can't stand it, but I said to her how awful it was the way the press had been covering Bruce lately. This is what makes him happy. He's getting the chance to be who he really is. Too many people never get that chance. I think it's great and don't understand how anybody can begrudge somebody else for being true to themselves. If you haven't seen it, I recommend Russell Brand's thoughts on the Bruce Jenner coverage. Whether you like the guy or not, he has some really damn good points about how shitty some press sources have treated him.
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Post by Some Guy on Feb 1, 2015 2:27:11 GMT -5
It's funny, my girlfriend and I were just talking about him today. She watches all that Kardashian crap religiously and I can't stand it, but I said to her how awful it was the way the press had been covering Bruce lately. This is what makes him happy. He's getting the chance to be who he really is. Too many people never get that chance. I think it's great and don't understand how anybody can begrudge somebody else for being true to themselves. If you haven't seen it, I recommend Russell Brand's thoughts on the Bruce Jenner coverage. Whether you like the guy or not, he has some really damn good points about how shitty some press sources have treated him. Russell Brand says a ton of shit that makes him look like a really decent human being, so it's not all that surprising. I get that not everyone understands transgendered individuals, but it is my hope that people will in the future thanks to people like Jenner, Laverne Cox, and Chaz Bono. To be fair, since Christine Jorgensen there's more-or-less been a consistent stream of famous trans people (usually white trans women older than 30). I think what would most help representation would be an end to/criticism of transface casting, and trans actors being cast in trans roles in movies/tv. I'd argue we've backslid in a lot of ways from the 70s here when most of the time they'd cast women as trans women, nowadays it's almost always a cis man playing a trans woman or a cis woman playing a trans man and that's some goddamn bullshit. It's f***ed up that Sleepaway Camp 2 is one of the more progressive representations, in this manner. I mean, some of the times this is necessary for the story (Jeff Tambor in Transparent, which he is excellent in) but I mostly agree with you. Outside of him and Laverne Cox in OITNB, it's a pretty persistent problem in movies/TV. Hell, Jared Leto just won an Oscar for a pretty damn offensive portrayal of a trans, which was pretty alarming in a "watch as Hollywood pats themselves on the back" sense. I'll admit to praising it at the time even, but I have backed way off from that. Aside from that...as for the people who say they "don't get it" or whatever, no one is forcing you to get it. All they are asking is for acceptance in how they want to be identified. If you can't do that, then you're a problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 5:20:58 GMT -5
I came in here looking for some good jokes, boy am I let down.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Feb 1, 2015 5:35:34 GMT -5
Instead of repeating yourself, why don't you explain your point like a mature adult? We are a board home to many trans individuals (sorry if that is the wrong term, not good with that stuff) and to come in and act as you have is a slap in the face to their struggles. People have tried to explain this many times just on here in the last year, if they no longer feel the need to explain themselves that is their choice. The fact of the matter is you have no clue and when people try and explain you ignore it so you get ignored. So with all due respect, if you cannot respect someone and their reasoning for a choice like this when it is explained, don't try and argue with them and tell them they are wrong or some crap like that. I haven't said anyone's wrong nor have I ignored what people have said. I've tried to address everything until I was told to stop. Say I don't understand all you want, you're entitled to think that, but don't say that I've tried to tell someone they're wrong or that I've ignored people's explanations. That is a lie.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,478
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 1, 2015 5:44:07 GMT -5
After all the jokes, it turns out Bruce Jenner is becoming a woman. linkCongrats to Bruce for doing what's making him happy. Lord knows after marrying a Kardashian I might want to chop my d*** off too. I believe chopping it off would be preferable to what they actually do to it.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Feb 1, 2015 5:55:40 GMT -5
But it's physically impossible to become an actual woman. A vagina is the only female part you can recreate. If they could be exactly the same as a born woman, it'd be a lot more understandable to me, It is not as simple as that. Would you tell a woman who had to have a hysterectomy and oophorectomy that she is not an actual woman anymore since the only lady parts she still has is a vagina? I seriously doubt that you would. You would think of her as a woman because you would have thought of her as a woman before her surgery and she would thought of herself in the same way. Well, in this case Jenner has always thought of herself as a woman. Sure, she has spent a very long time trying to function as a man (having children with 3 different women and all), but deep down inside she has known all along that she was denying who she really was. I get why you do not understand. To most people, there is no difference between gender identity and sex. To a transgendered person, however, there is. Sex is what they were born with while gender is what you think of yourself as. Again, for most people there is no difference and they do not have to feel conflicted trying to resolve any gender identity issues. Please understand, this is not a conscious decision, nor is a recent one. Jenner, like virtually all transgendered individuals, has thought as herself as a woman all along but has tried to suppress those feelings. Thank you for talking to me reasonably and making valid points, instead of trying to gang up on me because I'm not saying exactly what people want to hear. The problem with what you said it's that it's not....true. Like I said, I don't want to upset people, but this is the way I truly feel. The definition of a woman is and I quote - "an adult human female". Bruce Jenner wants to be a woman and can get surgery to make him feel as close to being a woman as physically possible but saying "he's always been a woman" is just not true. That's the way he feels, not what he is. A woman who had a hysterectomy would still be a woman because they have all the other female parts. They have female DNA. They were born a female. It's not the same as someone who has a sex change. And yes, I'd never go up to Bruce Jenner and say "Hey, you're not a woman, you're a man with a penis!". But if someone were to ask me my honest opinion on these matters, this is what it is. I'm just using facts, I'm not making stuff up. An important point I made earlier I wouldn't mind someone addressing - how is this any different from someone trying to change their skin colour or their sexual orientation? Why are those two frowned upon but this isn't? I admit, on that front, I really don't understand. (Just to clarify one more time, something which people have probably ignored, I am COMPLETELY IN FAVOUR of Bruce Jenner and any other transgendered individual doing whatever they want to themselves to make them feel like a man or a woman. I don't think it's wrong, I don't disapprove of it whatsoever. Good for Bruce, I'm happy for him).
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Feb 1, 2015 6:08:14 GMT -5
ok, for those that " don't get it," try this.
let's say you're balding, there's nothing on the top of your head. and you hate it. it makes you uncomfortable, it's not what you want and you want to change it.
somebody says " but that's normal, just accept it", but you're still uncomfortable with this, you still want to change. what you see in the mirror makes you unhappy.
so you go through a process that changes you, so you're more in line with what you believe you should be. some may say there was nothing wrong with you in the 1st place, but it's not their decision, it's something you did for you own emotional well being.
hope that clears it up a little.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 6:20:59 GMT -5
It is not as simple as that. Would you tell a woman who had to have a hysterectomy and oophorectomy that she is not an actual woman anymore since the only lady parts she still has is a vagina? I seriously doubt that you would. You would think of her as a woman because you would have thought of her as a woman before her surgery and she would thought of herself in the same way. Well, in this case Jenner has always thought of herself as a woman. Sure, she has spent a very long time trying to function as a man (having children with 3 different women and all), but deep down inside she has known all along that she was denying who she really was. I get why you do not understand. To most people, there is no difference between gender identity and sex. To a transgendered person, however, there is. Sex is what they were born with while gender is what you think of yourself as. Again, for most people there is no difference and they do not have to feel conflicted trying to resolve any gender identity issues. Please understand, this is not a conscious decision, nor is a recent one. Jenner, like virtually all transgendered individuals, has thought as herself as a woman all along but has tried to suppress those feelings. Thank you for talking to me reasonably and making valid points, instead of trying to gang up on me because I'm not saying exactly what people want to hear. The problem with what you said it's that it's not....true. Like I said, I don't want to upset people, but this is the way I truly feel. The definition of a woman is and I quote - "an adult human female". Bruce Jenner wants to be a woman and can get surgery to make him feel as close to being a woman as physically possible but saying "he's always been a woman" is just not true. That's the way he feels, not what he is. A woman who had a hysterectomy would still be a woman because they have all the other female parts. They have female DNA. They were born a female. It's not the same as someone who has a sex change. And yes, I'd never go up to Bruce Jenner and say "Hey, you're not a woman, you're a man with a penis!". But if someone were to ask me my honest opinion on these matters, this is what it is. I'm just using facts, I'm not making stuff up. An important point I made earlier I wouldn't mind someone addressing - how is this any different from someone trying to change their skin colour or their sexual orientation? Why are those two frowned upon but this isn't? I admit, on that front, I really don't understand. (Just to clarify one more time, something which people have probably ignored, I am COMPLETELY IN FAVOUR of Bruce Jenner and any other transgendered individual doing whatever they want to themselves to make them feel like a man or a woman. I don't think it's wrong, I don't disapprove of it whatsoever. Good for Bruce, I'm happy for him). If you feel like you're really a woman, you're a woman, regardless if you have a penis or not. Period. It's ignorance like this that causes such a high damn suicide rate among trans people, especially young trans people. Educate yourself and open your damn mind. And no, regardless of what YOU think, you're not backed up by anything in science or psychology.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 1, 2015 6:51:11 GMT -5
And with that I think we're finished. We asked you to cool it and, well...
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