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Post by Cyno on Feb 16, 2015 12:46:54 GMT -5
I remember reading a review someone wrote that called Golden Axe Beast Rider one of the best action games ever made and that it defined a new standard of excellence or something. I'm pretty sure he was a coke addict. Or getting paid by Sega. Maybe to continue his cocaine addiction. He was the guy behind Diehard Gamefan. His name escapes me, but he get ridiculously enthusiastic about every mediocre game that came across his desk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 18:58:08 GMT -5
That's one thing about video games that's truly fascinating. If you have good gameplay and good software, you don't need to be very creative with how things are made. You can just rehash the same basic material over and over again with improved graphics, music and UI and there's not much else that needs doing. They don't reinvent the wheel with CoD. It's by no means one of my favorite series, but it's sold extremely well because there's a certain formula that works and it hasn't been tinkered with. Most RPGs use stock characters and have stock storylines, but the quality of the writing and the gameplay of the big name RPGs has let those flourish as top-tier franchises. Which is funny when you think about it because Square suddenly became inept with marketting and developing their games. They kept trying to retool gameplay that noone was particularly complaining about and pretty much washed their hands of localizing Dragon Quest Games (arguably the most traditional of JRPGs), even though demand was starting to increase for them in the West. God forbid us Americans getting a SquareEnix game that does NOT involve Lightning! This is what I hate the most about them, because not everybody wants RPGs that are cinematic-heavy and full of actor dialogue. A good story with relatable characters can succeed, even with a simplified battle mechanism. I prefer Dragon Quest over Final Fantasy & it really irritates me the VII 3DS remake or Terry's Wonderland are never coming here. But, this is a topic about Sega's ineptitude.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 18, 2015 19:09:20 GMT -5
There needs to be a law in place that states you can only LP a poor Sonic game if you marathon at least the first season of Sonic SatAM and memorize the first 100 issues of the Archie series.
Then they have to ask themselves: "Now that I have seen the light that is the Blue Blur, is it worth committing to such blasphemy and wickedness for something as minor as a bad game?"
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,434
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Post by FinalGwen on Feb 18, 2015 19:30:04 GMT -5
I just want to wave a magic wand so the Sonic franchise would go back to its 1993 golden age, when the Freedom Fighter/SatAM canon was the prominent one and his games were selling and getting critical praise. This was never the case.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 18, 2015 19:32:51 GMT -5
I just want to wave a magic wand so the Sonic franchise would go back to its 1993 golden age, when the Freedom Fighter/SatAM canon was the prominent one and his games were selling and getting critical praise. This was never the case. I've heard lots of good things about the Fleetway Sonic (evil Golden Sonic sounds pretty sick), but sadly I'm a yankee so I didn't grow up with it.
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BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by BorneAgain on Feb 18, 2015 19:40:49 GMT -5
Kind of sad that Sonic basically had a three/four year golden age 91-94/95, and its been entirely up and down since. When your renaissance/comeback consists of two games (Colors, Generations), maybe two and a half (part of Unleashed), that's kind of telling. Doubly so considering that last comeback the series followed a similar pattern (two big hits with Adventure 1/2 and part of Heroes).
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,434
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Post by FinalGwen on Feb 18, 2015 19:51:40 GMT -5
This was never the case. I've heard lots of good things about the Fleetway Sonic (evil Golden Sonic sounds pretty sick), but sadly I'm a yankee so I didn't grow up with it. Not trying to have a pop at Archie/SatAM, I think even over here, if you asked people their favourite memories of 90s Sonic the Fleetway comics would come pretty low in the equation. The games are just so universal and so easy to get into the story that they work worldwide, rather than the periphery canons built around it in different countries. While Fleetway had some amazing stuff that I dearly love, if I had to describe Sonic 'canon', I probably wouldn't be mentioning the Kintobor Computer or Shortfuse The Cybernik. On a personal level, I like to pick and choose bits of each of the continuities that work for me. It's a bit easier with Fleetway because for the most part they did try and stick a bit closer to the games in terms of environments and continuity, while Archie really did go into the worldbuilding with the Echidna society and royal families everything. Fleetway did still have its stuff that you'd never see in the games - like Knuckles going through a loose adaptation of The Wicker Man - but most events were set in areas that you'd see in-game.
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Post by Orange on Feb 18, 2015 19:55:31 GMT -5
Okay, so every song isn't a knockout... okay, and, yeah, that one song is pretty much a rip off of Poison's "Nothin' but a Good Time", but I don't think it's that bad. Oh... Carry on then.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 18, 2015 19:58:34 GMT -5
Game sucks because they tried to release it with the holiday season. Though show is funny.
But I've said it before, I don't understand why neither cartoons nor video games don't use stuff from the comics. They have some really good story arcs and characters.... and seriously who wouldn't play a Sonic/Mega-Man video game?
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Feb 18, 2015 20:23:34 GMT -5
Kind of sad that Sonic basically had a three/four year golden age 91-94/95, and its been entirely up and down since. When your renaissance/comeback consists of two games (Colors, Generations), maybe two and a half (part of Unleashed), that's kind of telling. Doubly so considering that last comeback the series followed a similar pattern (two big hits with Adventure 1/2 and part of Heroes). As I said before Sega is irritating because they find a good place for Sonic, but instead of fixing what was broke they just start all over and try adding new gimmicks which just make matters worse most if the time. - Sonic & the secret rings - decent game but the RPGS elements were NOT needed and IMO were a detriment to the game, instead of giving us a sequel that did away with the RPG elements and added new levels or new setting then it would have been awesome. What did we get after?, "Sonic & the black knight".........*shakes head* - Sonic Unleashed - daytime levels while a bit flawed showed a lot of promise.....then the werehog appears and the game turns to shit. all they needed to do with the sequel was do away with werehog, tighten up the daytime stuff and add new levels. - Sonic colours - good game that never got a sequel - Sonic Generations - while not a perfect game it had a great foundation to build on, all they needed to do for a sequel was new levels and tighten up the gameplay somewhat. After the promising "Generations" instead of a sequel we got "Sonic lost world" which was terrible & now "Sonic Boom"
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 18, 2015 21:23:15 GMT -5
There needs to be a law in place that states you can only LP a poor Sonic game if you marathon at least the first season of Sonic SatAM and memorize the first 100 issues of the Archie series. Then they have to ask themselves: "Now that I have seen the light that is the Blue Blur, is it worth committing to such blasphemy and wickedness for something as minor as a bad game?" My fond memories of both SatAM and early Archie just make my rage at games like Sonic '06 and Boom even greater. The whole thing really fell apart when Sega of Japan decided that Sonic's game world and experience had to be "one size fits all". Sonic was white hot in North America and Europe (bigger than Mario!) in the early 90s in large part because Sega of America and Sega of Europe were given leeway when it came to how they would present Sonic to their local consumer bases. The early games being great was obviously the driving factor, but the Fleetway and Archie comics, SatAM, even something as inane and goofy as Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (Long John Baldry's Robotnik performance should be revered), along with various other formats, made Sonic close and relatable to the audiences of North America and Europe. Cue the Dreamcast era, and suddenly we can only have one "canon" for Sonic, and Sega of Japan would dictate everything...and just about everything they've dictated has been horrendous. I hear people praise the Sonic Adventure games, and maybe I was just too old when I played them (around high school age), but those things are not very good, and it only got worse from there, with the exceptions of things like the handheld games and Sonic Colors. It really is too bad, and it was partly a byproduct of the shift from the early era of games, where there was a lot of "fill in the blanks" players were expected to do (e.g. imagining Sonic's world of Mobius beyond the game, or what the rest of the Mushroom Kingdom was like in Mario, or what Link sounded like, etc.), to the modern era where, thanks to advanced graphics and voice work, we get things fully fleshed out and explained to us...thus removing all the mystery and variance our imaginations can bring to the proceedings. Series like Mario and Zelda have handled that transition well: the stories don't bog down the experience, and lots of mystery is retained, but series like Sonic totally missed the boat.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 18, 2015 21:43:03 GMT -5
There needs to be a law in place that states you can only LP a poor Sonic game if you marathon at least the first season of Sonic SatAM and memorize the first 100 issues of the Archie series. Then they have to ask themselves: "Now that I have seen the light that is the Blue Blur, is it worth committing to such blasphemy and wickedness for something as minor as a bad game?" My fond memories of both SatAM and early Archie just make my rage at games like Sonic '06 and Boom even greater. The whole thing really fell apart when Sega of Japan decided that Sonic's game world and experience had to be "one size fits all". Sonic was white hot in North America and Europe (bigger than Mario!) in the early 90s in large part because Sega of America and Sega of Europe were given leeway when it came to how they would present Sonic to their local consumer bases. The early games being great was obviously the driving factor, but the Fleetway and Archie comics, SatAM, even something as inane and goofy as Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (Long John Baldry's Robotnik performance should be revered), along with various other formats, made Sonic close and relatable to the audiences of North America and Europe. Cue the Dreamcast era, and suddenly we can only have one "canon" for Sonic, and Sega of Japan would dictate everything...and just about everything they've dictated has been horrendous. I hear people praise the Sonic Adventure games, and maybe I was just too old when I played them (around high school age), but those things are not very good, and it only got worse from there, with the exceptions of things like the handheld games and Sonic Colors. It really is too bad, and it was partly a byproduct of the shift from the early era of games, where there was a lot of "fill in the blanks" players were expected to do (e.g. imagining Sonic's world of Mobius beyond the game, or what the rest of the Mushroom Kingdom was like in Mario, or what Link sounded like, etc.), to the modern era where, thanks to advanced graphics and voice work, we get things fully fleshed out and explained to us...thus removing all the mystery and variance our imaginations can bring to the proceedings. Series like Mario and Zelda have handled that transition well: the stories don't bog down the experience, and lots of mystery is retained, but series like Sonic totally missed the boat. Oddly enough, Sonic's had as many differing and unique canons as some public domain characters. This is what my headcanon looks like: It's generally the game world, but with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Sally Acorn and Amy (those two girls are friends, I'm not into the shipping war fans pit between them) on the hero side, and Eggman, Rouge, Shadow, Scratch the robot chicken and Snively and a bunch of SWATbots on the other. Also Sonic always sounds like Jaleel White and Knuckles is always Dan Green in my head.
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BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by BorneAgain on Feb 18, 2015 21:49:53 GMT -5
What's especially a shame is that garbage like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 have largely poisoned the well as far as doing a more serious Sonic game. There's a great, down to earth, and dramatic game that could be made with just the core cast battling a serious Robotnik again that doesn't need swearing, guns, government agencies, or aliens to make it work.
Good point about the value of the fill in the blanks era too; those early games could have you imagining all the what if questions about the universe's setting. Hell is why I love franchises in the wilderness/hibernation periods where strict canon/rules have either not been created or are very relaxed.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 18, 2015 21:57:21 GMT -5
My fond memories of both SatAM and early Archie just make my rage at games like Sonic '06 and Boom even greater. The whole thing really fell apart when Sega of Japan decided that Sonic's game world and experience had to be "one size fits all". Sonic was white hot in North America and Europe (bigger than Mario!) in the early 90s in large part because Sega of America and Sega of Europe were given leeway when it came to how they would present Sonic to their local consumer bases. The early games being great was obviously the driving factor, but the Fleetway and Archie comics, SatAM, even something as inane and goofy as Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (Long John Baldry's Robotnik performance should be revered), along with various other formats, made Sonic close and relatable to the audiences of North America and Europe. Cue the Dreamcast era, and suddenly we can only have one "canon" for Sonic, and Sega of Japan would dictate everything...and just about everything they've dictated has been horrendous. I hear people praise the Sonic Adventure games, and maybe I was just too old when I played them (around high school age), but those things are not very good, and it only got worse from there, with the exceptions of things like the handheld games and Sonic Colors. It really is too bad, and it was partly a byproduct of the shift from the early era of games, where there was a lot of "fill in the blanks" players were expected to do (e.g. imagining Sonic's world of Mobius beyond the game, or what the rest of the Mushroom Kingdom was like in Mario, or what Link sounded like, etc.), to the modern era where, thanks to advanced graphics and voice work, we get things fully fleshed out and explained to us...thus removing all the mystery and variance our imaginations can bring to the proceedings. Series like Mario and Zelda have handled that transition well: the stories don't bog down the experience, and lots of mystery is retained, but series like Sonic totally missed the boat. Oddly enough, Sonic's had as many differing and unique canons as some public domain characters. This is what my headcanon looks like: It's generally the game world, but with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Sally Acorn and Amy (those two girls are friends, I'm not into the shipping war fans pit between them) on the hero side, and Eggman, Rouge, Shadow, Scratch the robot chicken and Snively and a bunch of SWATbots on the other. Also Sonic always sounds like Jaleel White and Knuckles is always Dan Green in my head. I know I've made this clear over the years, but I can't bear a world where Jim Cummings isn't Evil Overlord Robotnik. Oddly enough, thanks to Archie Comics setting the Floating Island as vaguely Australian, I've always imagined Knuckles with an Aussie accent...and yet I don't imagine most of the other denizens of the Floating Island having one. Weird.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 18, 2015 22:03:29 GMT -5
I always thought Cummings could be a decent Dr. Eggman. He might be able to capture the funnier side of Robotnik you see in a lot of games, but also bring back that threatening element he used to have.
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Malcolm
Grimlock
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Post by Malcolm on Feb 18, 2015 23:01:41 GMT -5
There needs to be a law in place that states you can only LP a poor Sonic game if you marathon at least the first season of Sonic SatAM and memorize the first 100 issues of the Archie series. Then they have to ask themselves: "Now that I have seen the light that is the Blue Blur, is it worth committing to such blasphemy and wickedness for something as minor as a bad game?" My fond memories of both SatAM and early Archie just make my rage at games like Sonic '06 and Boom even greater. The whole thing really fell apart when Sega of Japan decided that Sonic's game world and experience had to be "one size fits all". Sonic was white hot in North America and Europe (bigger than Mario!) in the early 90s in large part because Sega of America and Sega of Europe were given leeway when it came to how they would present Sonic to their local consumer bases. The early games being great was obviously the driving factor, but the Fleetway and Archie comics, SatAM, even something as inane and goofy as Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog (Long John Baldry's Robotnik performance should be revered), along with various other formats, made Sonic close and relatable to the audiences of North America and Europe. Cue the Dreamcast era, and suddenly we can only have one "canon" for Sonic, and Sega of Japan would dictate everything...and just about everything they've dictated has been horrendous. I hear people praise the Sonic Adventure games, and maybe I was just too old when I played them (around high school age), but those things are not very good, and it only got worse from there, with the exceptions of things like the handheld games and Sonic Colors. It really is too bad, and it was partly a byproduct of the shift from the early era of games, where there was a lot of "fill in the blanks" players were expected to do (e.g. imagining Sonic's world of Mobius beyond the game, or what the rest of the Mushroom Kingdom was like in Mario, or what Link sounded like, etc.), to the modern era where, thanks to advanced graphics and voice work, we get things fully fleshed out and explained to us...thus removing all the mystery and variance our imaginations can bring to the proceedings. Series like Mario and Zelda have handled that transition well: the stories don't bog down the experience, and lots of mystery is retained, but series like Sonic totally missed the boat. Mario being such a huge blank slate and such a mystery is actually one of the reasons why I hate Mario so much; I feel little to no connection with him. I actually like looking into character backstory, wanting to know who they are, why they do things, etc. It keeps me from caring about the characters. In fact I hate silent protagonists mostly because I'm the kind of player who guides them, not BE them. Or maybe it's because I grew up with Lou Albano and DiC's inerpretation and hate hate HATE the game version of the characters(besides Luigi, Daisy, Waluigi, and Rosaline). So we both have same problem. Also, SatAM is overrated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 4:00:14 GMT -5
Okay, so every song isn't a knockout... okay, and, yeah, that one song is pretty much a rip off of Poison's "Nothin' but a Good Time", but I don't think it's that bad. Oh... Carry on then. Leave it up to Orange to bring back KISS into the conversation Why did we marry him again @irontyger
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Burst
El Dandy
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Post by Burst on Feb 19, 2015 4:38:54 GMT -5
I know I've said this before, but it's still kind of flabbergasting how pretty much none of the original generation of game studios seem to have any CLUE of what to do with their legacy franchises. Capcom, Namco, Square, Sega... pretty much only Nintendo really seems to get it and even then some of their franchises could use a little more love. At the same time, at least they're acknowledging they exist.
There also seems to be a tendency to have the attention span and memory of a goldfish when it comes to revisiting old franchises. Just look at Namco's admittedly ambitious attempt to reboot all of their franchises, even the obscure ones, with online comics and shorts, only to barely market it at all and then pull the plug on it. There's no patience. It says a lot when anymore, 9 times out of 10 the fan output (fangames, fancomics, whatever) is better thought out and put together than the official output. It also says a lot when you have companies throwing out C&D or takedown orders to fan properties despite the fact that they're not doing a damn thing with the franchise they're ostensibly defending.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 11:21:38 GMT -5
Okay, so every song isn't a knockout... okay, and, yeah, that one song is pretty much a rip off of Poison's "Nothin' but a Good Time", but I don't think it's that bad. Oh... Carry on then. Leave it up to Orange to bring back KISS into the conversation Why did we marry him again @irontyger Everything he owns is orange and that matches well with our furniture.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 19, 2015 11:34:40 GMT -5
I have nothing to add but that Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 were my shit when I was a kid.
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