wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Feb 25, 2015 13:49:09 GMT -5
Um, yes the commentary DID point that out.
With about the same amount of emotion that you'd put out ordering a Whopper from Burger King.
Oh, bull crap. And besides, the point is you clearly said "nobody would have known it, because the announcers said nothing about it." I watched that match, and Cole emphasized that point. You don't have to get testy at me for the ONE point in your post I was correcting; there's a reason I didn't decry the others you listed.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,047
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 25, 2015 13:52:01 GMT -5
With about the same amount of emotion that you'd put out ordering a Whopper from Burger King.
Oh, bull crap. And besides, the point is you clearly said "nobody would have known it, because the announcers said nothing about it." I watched that match, and Cole emphasized that point. You don't have to get testy at me for the ONE point in your post I was correcting; there's a reason I didn't decry the others you listed.
Roman Reigns is another shiny new toy that Vince and his infamously short attention-span has found and has fallen in love with. Once it breaks, he'll move on to something else. My frustration comes from the simple fact that in WWE: nothing outside of the main event and a select couple of other angles matters. Wade Barrett is the IC champion? Who cares? The guy has been treated like an utter jobber since getting that belt just like everyone else that's gotten it over the past couple of years. Kidd and Cesaro are the tag champs? Who cares? They're probably not even going to be defending them at WrestleMania and will both end up in the Andre the Giant battle royal. Rusev is the US champion? Who cares? All that matters in his current feud is whether or not John Cena is "too old." Did you know, the Ascension just had their first loss since being called up? After dominating every opponent they've had since they debuted on the last Raw of 2014? You would never would have known it with how little of a f*** the commentators gave about it. Which is supposed to be their jobs. Again, nothing in WWE matters. It's hard to care about much when the stories and talent are treated they way they are. If you're going to quote something I allegedly said, at least make sure it was what I actually said for f**** sake. Drop the shitty attitude while you're at it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 25, 2015 13:52:05 GMT -5
Legit question: Was Goldberg "ready"? Did his early push ruin his career? He was ready in the sense that he could do what his character needed him to do. All he had to was wreck fools for a long time and look dominant while being undefeated. He also had a ton of physical charisma. Roman's a different situation though. Goldberg was undefeated for a long ass time and destroyed everyone he faced. Roman, on the other hand, just got finished losing to f***ing Big Show a few weeks ago. He couldn't even pin Kane a couple of weeks ago. KANE! The booking is not gonna get anyone over in modern WWE, that much is clear. It's up to you to get over on your own and hope for the best.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Feb 25, 2015 13:52:48 GMT -5
Legit question: Was Goldberg "ready"? Did his early push ruin his career? Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Another thing to note is Goldberg was the fan favorite and the man the arenas were chanting for. I know it didn't happen often but WCW actually booked the fan favorite over the NWO. It's not at all a fair comparison. While he does still get a middling pop nobody is chanting for Reigns in segments he aint in.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Feb 25, 2015 13:57:24 GMT -5
Oh, bull crap. And besides, the point is you clearly said "nobody would have known it, because the announcers said nothing about it." I watched that match, and Cole emphasized that point. You don't have to get testy at me for the ONE point in your post I was correcting; there's a reason I didn't decry the others you listed.
Roman Reigns is another shiny new toy that Vince and his infamously short attention-span has found and has fallen in love with. Once it breaks, he'll move on to something else. My frustration comes from the simple fact that in WWE: nothing outside of the main event and a select couple of other angles matters. Wade Barrett is the IC champion? Who cares? The guy has been treated like an utter jobber since getting that belt just like everyone else that's gotten it over the past couple of years. Kidd and Cesaro are the tag champs? Who cares? They're probably not even going to be defending them at WrestleMania and will both end up in the Andre the Giant battle royal. Rusev is the US champion? Who cares? All that matters in his current feud is whether or not John Cena is "too old." Did you know, the Ascension just had their first loss since being called up? After dominating every opponent they've had since they debuted on the last Raw of 2014? You would never would have known it with how little of a f*** the commentators gave about it. Which is supposed to be their jobs. Again, nothing in WWE matters. It's hard to care about much when the stories and talent are treated they way they are. If you're going to quote something I allegedly said, at least make sure it was what I actually said for f**** sake. Drop the shitty attitude while you're at it.
That was still the gist of what you said. Saying they didn't care about it can be read as they didn't mention it. I just repeated it in a different way, you're the one getting angry just because I corrected one, again, ONE point you made. Just take a chill pill, man. Relax.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Feb 25, 2015 14:31:49 GMT -5
Legit question: Was Goldberg "ready"? Did his early push ruin his career? Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Fair enough, although Roman started at the top of the card same as Dean and Rollins, who seem to have a lot of support. I guess my point is that Goldberg was pushed to the top without a lot of artful 20-minute main event matches and that, like Roman, he wasn't a proven commodity on the mic. Yes, there are differences but there are also some similarities -- and those similarities are some of the major complaints as to why Reigns isn't "ready".
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Feb 25, 2015 14:39:20 GMT -5
Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Fair enough, although Roman started at the top of the card same as Dean and Rollins, who seem to have a lot of support. I guess my point is that Goldberg was pushed to the top without a lot of artful 20-minute main event matches and that, like Roman, he wasn't a proven commodity on the mic. Yes, there are differences but there are also some similarities -- and those similarities are some of the major complaints as to why Reigns isn't "ready". Goldberg didn't have much mic time which was fine because once he ot his main event push he still didn't spend time on the mic much less become a comedic sarcastic prototypical character. He just said who's next did his pose/jump thing and leave.
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Post by xCompackx on Feb 25, 2015 14:49:42 GMT -5
When it comes to making new stars, sometimes you really do have to give them a shot and see what happens. If Roman Reigns fails right now then that's fine; he's got his entire career ahead of him as long as he keeps his nose clean and works hard. But it's pretty unfair to try and sabotage someone's chance to succeed just because of personal opinions. For the folks that want Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt in that contender spot, that's completely fine; there's gotta be contenders no matter who is champion. I just think we should give Roman a chance before declaring that he's the worst wrestler alive.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 25, 2015 14:52:07 GMT -5
When it comes to making new stars, sometimes you really do have to give them a shot and see what happens. If Roman Reigns fails right now then that's fine; he's got his entire career ahead of him as long as he keeps his nose clean and works hard. But it's pretty unfair to try and sabotage someone's chance to succeed just because of personal opinions. For the folks that want Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt in that contender spot, that's completely fine; there's gotta be contenders no matter who is champion. I just think we should give Roman a chance before declaring that he's the worst wrestler alive. Roman isn't the worst wrestler alive. I'd say he's serviceable. But he just isn't main event material. Those other names you mentioned are more worthy of being in that top spot. They shouldn't just be warm bodies to make Roman look really strong.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 15:52:53 GMT -5
Again, the (main) issue isn't Roman Reigns.
It's that there are multiple options that are clearly better yet are being shoved to the wayside and made to look like complete idiots.
I wouldn't have a problem with a Reigns push. If it was in the midcard.
I would've accepted Dolph Ziggler in this position. I would've defenitly accepted Dean Ambrose in this position.
It's not about having Daniel Bryan win all the time like it's being spun by WWE and fans. It's about having the people I support being treated like they actually matter and not put someone who clearly isn't up to task in the position he is (Reigns).
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Feb 25, 2015 16:23:43 GMT -5
I swear to the flying spaghetti monster, I will go nuclear if a disappointing Reigns run hampers or dilutes the reaction to a Shield reunion*.
*Youtube comment section, probably. Yes, that low.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 16:27:21 GMT -5
It's funny to think that if they had gone with Reigns vs. Rusev this year for 'Mania, the crowd would probably be hugely behind Roman. If the office really believes in him, then he'd be a great choice to end Rusev's undefeated streak, give the US belt to, and let him run with it clear to next year's 'Mania, where he'd either be ready to main event, or at least in a highly featured match.
Kind of ironic, as that'd be the more "let's wait and see where this goes" approach over what they actually did.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 25, 2015 16:36:11 GMT -5
Imagine all of the WWE right now but with an award winning writer, or a team of writers passionate about the WWE product forging the landscape with the current crop of talent? Sounds exciting huh? It becomes clear what the issue is. WWE is just currently fast food we stomach because CONVENIENCE. Right now, its more Arbys than In-N-Out though. I miss Mickie James. I just choked on my gum in the office at work.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 25, 2015 17:34:53 GMT -5
Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Fair enough, although Roman started at the top of the card same as Dean and Rollins, who seem to have a lot of support. I guess my point is that Goldberg was pushed to the top without a lot of artful 20-minute main event matches and that, like Roman, he wasn't a proven commodity on the mic. Yes, there are differences but there are also some similarities -- and those similarities are some of the major complaints as to why Reigns isn't "ready". Ambrose and Rollins didn't get hurt a couple of months before their big push. Those two actually carried the shows for a quite a while. It's just another example of Reigns getting priority treatment despite not really earning it when compared to his peers. Also considering Rollins and Ambrose have been working a variety of opponents since the Shield split, and forged their own unique personalities and characters. They're more ready in that they've proven themselves to be more versatile performers in the ring, and stronger, more defined personalities outside it. Finally, Goldberg didn't need to be good on the mic, because that wasn't WCW's M.O. at the time. WWE is all about that, which is why they've tried to hard to force out the cheesy character from Reigns, and why it matters so much right now. Also Goldberg was around 10 x more popular than Reigns is today. His popularity is more comparable to Bryan's.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Feb 25, 2015 17:46:44 GMT -5
Again, the (main) issue isn't Roman Reigns. It's that there are multiple options that are clearly better yet are being shoved to the wayside and made to look like complete idiots. I wouldn't have a problem with a Reigns push. If it was in the midcard. I would've accepted Dolph Ziggler in this position. I would've defenitly accepted Dean Ambrose in this position. It's not about having Daniel Bryan win all the time like it's being spun by WWE and fans. It's about having the people I support being treated like they actually matter and not put someone who clearly isn't up to task in the position he is (Reigns).
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Feb 25, 2015 21:21:07 GMT -5
It's funny to think that if they had gone with Reigns vs. Rusev this year for 'Mania, the crowd would probably be hugely behind Roman. If the office really believes in him, then he'd be a great choice to end Rusev's undefeated streak, give the US belt to, and let him run with it clear to next year's 'Mania, where he'd either be ready to main event, or at least in a highly featured match. Kind of ironic, as that'd be the more "let's wait and see where this goes" approach over what they actually did. That's really the problem- as mentioned in Meltzer's article in another thread- the biggest problem was "Brock Lesnar broke The Streak last year." That really said it all- The Streak, in retrospect, NEEDED to be given to the NEXT ONE. If the WWE was really that dedicated to Reigns and dedicated to The Streak ending at WM30, then Reigns should have gotten the Streak last year and been made. By giving Brock Lesnar The Streak, they took the BEST possible way to make Reigns instantly a star, in favor of this method which put WWE on the hook- they get one shot, they NEED to make Reigns beat Lesnar, no matter what. If Reigns fought Rusev and broke his streak, it'd be awesome and WORK for Reigns... ...but then, you have the other problem. You get the Mania main event of "John Cena finally slays Brock Lesnar". Storyline wise, it makes perfect sense (the primary argument last year for why Bryan ABSOLUTELY HAD TO win the main event, so it is important to use here.) It is the right ending. If Rusev gets Reigns, then the planned match has to swap the other way for Cena/Lesnar. And no matter whether you're a Cena fan, a Cena hater, or merely respect Cena, THE FANBASE WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATED. Brock Lesnar's entire run, and THE UNDERTAKER'S STREAK, would have been sacrificed to give Super-Cena a slightly important victory that John Cena had ALREADY HAD in Lesnar's run. If you think the fans hate the Lesnar loss to Reigns, a Cena win- EVEN IF it's known "Brock Lesnar has agreed to terms with UFC and if he wins he's handing the belt to Dana White to throw in the trash at the next event", would probably get fans to riot. It would officially say, once and for all, "John Cena's going to be the face of the WWE until he literally drops dead, and after that Raw will probably cease original matches in favor of 'Best of John Cena' compilations every week." They lost their one chance to do anything BUT give this win to Roman Reigns last year, and now it's endgame. Even if you don't like it, it's time to accept- Reigns SHOULD win, he NEEDS to win, and this is the RIGHT THING TO DO.
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tms
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,901
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Post by tms on Feb 25, 2015 21:43:15 GMT -5
Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Another thing to note is Goldberg was the fan favorite and the man the arenas were chanting for. I know it didn't happen often but WCW actually booked the fan favorite over the NWO. It's not at all a fair comparison. While he does still get a middling pop nobody is chanting for Reigns in segments he aint in. Goldberg was also a legitimately amazing, freakish athlete who could jackhammer guys like Show and Reese with ease. Just in terms of talent it's like comparing prime Rey Mysterio Jr. to Ciclope.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 25, 2015 22:58:25 GMT -5
Legit question: Was Goldberg "ready"? Did his early push ruin his career? Goldberg did not start his career at the top of the card. He worked his way up even if he did have the Streak. Plus, and though I like Reigns, it's a flawed comparison. Goldberg was WHITE HOT with crowds by the time he was put on top. People were beggin for it. It's not the case here.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 25, 2015 23:11:31 GMT -5
Goldberg stuck out so much in 1998. Besides his freakish athleticism and strength, he had the overall aura and charisma of a destroyer.
Even better, he worked so well in the context of the late 90s, because unlike Austin and Rock on Raw, or even Hogan on Nitro, Goldberg didn't come out for 10+ minute promos and in-ring segments...hell, he barely spoke. He arrived, tore your arms off, beat you with them, and left with little more than a bellow and a growl. Given the era he rose to prominence in, it worked brilliantly.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Feb 25, 2015 23:14:16 GMT -5
It's funny to think that if they had gone with Reigns vs. Rusev this year for 'Mania, the crowd would probably be hugely behind Roman. If the office really believes in him, then he'd be a great choice to end Rusev's undefeated streak, give the US belt to, and let him run with it clear to next year's 'Mania, where he'd either be ready to main event, or at least in a highly featured match. Kind of ironic, as that'd be the more "let's wait and see where this goes" approach over what they actually did. That's really the problem- as mentioned in Meltzer's article in another thread- the biggest problem was "Brock Lesnar broke The Streak last year." That really said it all- The Streak, in retrospect, NEEDED to be given to the NEXT ONE. If the WWE was really that dedicated to Reigns and dedicated to The Streak ending at WM30, then Reigns should have gotten the Streak last year and been made. By giving Brock Lesnar The Streak, they took the BEST possible way to make Reigns instantly a star, in favor of this method which put WWE on the hook- they get one shot, they NEED to make Reigns beat Lesnar, no matter what. If Reigns fought Rusev and broke his streak, it'd be awesome and WORK for Reigns... ...but then, you have the other problem. You get the Mania main event of "John Cena finally slays Brock Lesnar". Storyline wise, it makes perfect sense (the primary argument last year for why Bryan ABSOLUTELY HAD TO win the main event, so it is important to use here.) It is the right ending. If Rusev gets Reigns, then the planned match has to swap the other way for Cena/Lesnar. And no matter whether you're a Cena fan, a Cena hater, or merely respect Cena, THE FANBASE WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATED. Brock Lesnar's entire run, and THE UNDERTAKER'S STREAK, would have been sacrificed to give Super-Cena a slightly important victory that John Cena had ALREADY HAD in Lesnar's run. If you think the fans hate the Lesnar loss to Reigns, a Cena win- EVEN IF it's known "Brock Lesnar has agreed to terms with UFC and if he wins he's handing the belt to Dana White to throw in the trash at the next event", would probably get fans to riot. It would officially say, once and for all, "John Cena's going to be the face of the WWE until he literally drops dead, and after that Raw will probably cease original matches in favor of 'Best of John Cena' compilations every week." They lost their one chance to do anything BUT give this win to Roman Reigns last year, and now it's endgame. Even if you don't like it, it's time to accept- Reigns SHOULD win, he NEEDS to win, and this is the RIGHT THING TO DO. I agree that Reigns has to win. Any other result would make no sense unless they want to do a double turn, which I just don't see happening. But even if Reigns does beat Lesnar, it won't instantly make him the next top star in the eyes of the fans. Ideally you would think that it would. The problem is that WWE has rendered wins and losses as completely meaningless. So the impact of such a momentous win probably will be significantly hindered. Not to mention that alot of the Wrestlemania crowd is going to rip Reigns apart. There's pretty much no way around that. Which is going to make the actual win even less meaningful, because like with the Royal Rumble it will be overshadowed by the reaction. People won't remember that Reigns beat Lesnar. They'll more likely remember thousands of fans in the crowd booing the whole affair, especially given that alot of people are dying to cheer for Lesnar as it is. Not to mention if Lesnar decides to split following the match and go to UFC or Bellator, then it may make it more difficult still for Reigns to benefit. On paper Reigns beating Lesnar sounds perfect, but I'm not convinced it's going to be as effective as they are hoping given all the factors.
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