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Post by avenger on Mar 8, 2015 10:53:30 GMT -5
I would actually say that it's rare for someone to truly deserve their push being taken away. It's bullshit to punish guys on screen when there's better ways to go about it. Is it? Look at it from the wrestlers POV. A push is a reward. Why reward someone who continually does things that deserve punishing? From Vince's POV, he needs his top guys to be reliable. If they're trouble behind the scenes, they're not reliable. Look at 1992, Vince needed a new champ. Someone who didn't look like they were on steroids. Someone who was over. Someone who was reliable. Bret had missed one show in seven years. Hell, he worked a PPV the night his brother Dean died. Riley. Massively over, on the midst of a decent escape storyline against Miz, jobbed out for who knows what reason. Riley was massively over when he was against the Miz, when he wasn't against the Miz, he barely got a reaction. Not to mention that he was supposed to eliminate Cena from the Rumble that year, but botched it because he accidentally got himself eliminated. Unreliable. Ryder is baffling. For all the talk of Vince's brass ring speech, here's a guy who grabbed the brass ring in a way that *no one* ever has, before or since. Kofi and Shelton were usually relevant, but would get lost in the shuffle every now and then. Perhaps they weren't politickers. Let's not forget Shelton's charisma bypass, too. If we're just talking guys on the rise and not unceremoniously moved out of a main spot, then Cesaro is one of the stranger cases in some time. Great worker, attractive/clean cut look, had a fun move that people were getting behind, and could easily be presented and believed as an athletic hoss. Much like Bryan I've never really read a bad word about the guy IRL or as a backstage politician, I know that's not always all you can go by but it's at least something. He's one-half of the tag team champions now and is in a better spot than in previous months, but there's no argument I'm willing to take seriously as to why he shouldn't have been a top babyface in the mid-card scene for the past year, instead of all the really obnoxious ways in which they used him (most notably helping The Authority troll Team Cena and the audience by teasing that he would join them). Cesaro will get there, they've tried a few things, but none of them have quite worked. Hopefully he'll become the face when he splits from Tyson. That might be it. Christian in 2005 is another example. He was becoming one of the more entertaining and over characters in the mid-card, and never ascended to main event status in WWE (I see you, New Generation Project Podcast!) other than one brief moment years later. I believe that Christian not getting his due in 2005 is one of the main reasons that people turned against Cena the way they did, in much the same way people have turned against Reigns because of how they've handled Bryan. A lot of Christian's momentum came from the rivalry he was having with Cena (dating back to the "Tomko, gimme a beat" rap he put on Cena at the Royal Rumble), and then when Cena got drafted to RAW... they never did anything with it. Christian became the fourth wheel in a Cena/Jericho/Bischoff feud and got drafted away to SmackDown. Christian's contract was winding down, and he wouldn't re-sign. They put him in the title-picture, and a PPV main event, and he wouldn't sign. What were they supposed to do? Give him a run with the belt as he's leaving? That would have been stupidity on a Russoesque level. Citing the Swagger weed incident is kind of a copout, IMO. We have no idea how backstage attitude or anything like that may have factored in, but Swagger looked like he would be a big deal, fairly quickly early in 2009 as ECW Champion as he adapted very fast to WWE style like amateurs Angle and Lesnar before him, had a solid but poorly booked run as World Champion in mid 2010, and then was just another guy in the midcard until the early 2013 push. I'd argue he had already been wasted by the time he got pulled over shortly after his Elimination Chamber win. Sabu got fired for the same thing. RVD got suspended as champion for it. The Wellness policy at the time stated that a drug related arrest & conviction was a firing. And now he can't visit certain countries, for example Canada. It's not a copout, Swagger is a lucky man to still have a job.
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Post by JTG Fan on Mar 8, 2015 11:30:04 GMT -5
Citing the Swagger weed incident is kind of a copout, IMO. We have no idea how backstage attitude or anything like that may have factored in, but Swagger looked like he would be a big deal, fairly quickly early in 2009 as ECW Champion as he adapted very fast to WWE style like amateurs Angle and Lesnar before him, had a solid but poorly booked run as World Champion in mid 2010, and then was just another guy in the midcard until the early 2013 push. I'd argue he had already been wasted by the time he got pulled over shortly after his Elimination Chamber win. Sabu got fired for the same thing. RVD got suspended as champion for it. The Wellness policy at the time stated that a drug related arrest & conviction was a firing. And now he can't visit certain countries, for example Canada. It's not a copout, Swagger is a lucky man to still have a job. My point is that it's a copout because it doesn't explain why they did nothing with him until 2013 after his World Title reign ended in mid 2010.
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Post by Some Guy on Mar 8, 2015 12:22:05 GMT -5
I believe that Christian not getting his due in 2005 is one of the main reasons that people turned against Cena the way they did, in much the same way people have turned against Reigns because of how they've handled Bryan. A lot of Christian's momentum came from the rivalry he was having with Cena (dating back to the "Tomko, gimme a beat" rap he put on Cena at the Royal Rumble), and then when Cena got drafted to RAW... they never did anything with it. Christian became the fourth wheel in a Cena/Jericho/Bischoff feud and got drafted away to SmackDown. Christian's contract was winding down, and he wouldn't re-sign. They put him in the title-picture, and a PPV main event, and he wouldn't sign. What were they supposed to do? Give him a run with the belt as he's leaving? That would have been stupidity on a Russoesque level. Wow, this is so off the mark it's ridiculous. You want to know why he wouldn't re-sign? Because he was constantly treated as an afterthought. His shirt was the top selling in the company, but it was barely advertised at any point and they yanked it when he copyrighted the name because he knew they wouldn't keep going with it strongly. His "PPV main event" was a secondary title match where he became the third wheel in a triple threat because they wouldn't give him a singles title match against Cena. He had maybe one TV win the entire year, while constantly being treated as inferior and got bitched out by Vince on TV just so Vince could stroke his ego some. They could have easily given him a real and actual chance, like they were constantly willing to do with Edge. But they didn't do that. That's why he didn't re-sign.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 8, 2015 12:52:34 GMT -5
Cesaro is somehow "too Swiss". Ok can we stop this. Vince didn't say he was too Swiss. That was a joke thread title based on an old board meme (that was picked up by major newz sites) He said "he doesn't yet have the charisma, he doesn't have the verbal skills. It may be because he's Swiss... I don't know." He was saying that Cesaro's talking lacks somewhat and it might be because he's Swiss and English isn't his first language. Not that the fact that he is Swiss and therefore bad. I disagree with Vince on his Charisma part (in the indies he managed to get HEY! over with little effort for instance and things like the big swing)... but yeah, sometimes Cesaro's verbal skills are a bit lacking and I say that as a huge fan of the dude.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Mar 8, 2015 12:59:19 GMT -5
Cesaro is the obvious choice. Another recent one is Bo Dallas. A really good gimmick and it seemed like he was getting over with the undefeated thing and then they had him lose it to R-Truth of all people and then made him a jobber.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Mar 8, 2015 13:39:35 GMT -5
It's....it's Christian.Like many have said, he should've won the WWE Championship back in 2005. He was red hot back then. But since it was the beginning of Super Cena, it wasn't gonna happen. I'm more pissed about their decision after he won the World Heavyweight Championship back in 2011. He was red hot again, riding to the top on a wave of emotions after Edge's retirement. So what do they do? GIVE HIM A FIVE F***ING DAY REIGN WHERE HE LOSES IT TO, WHO ELSE, MR. "I'M ON MY FIFTEENTH STRIKE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE" RANDY ORTON!!!!!!
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Post by Bear Skin Rug on Mar 8, 2015 16:40:25 GMT -5
Fandango
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
Don't bother pretending I seem fine, I like that I'm a mess
Posts: 26,866
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Post by ayumidah on Mar 8, 2015 17:46:52 GMT -5
95% of the roster?
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Post by avenger on Mar 8, 2015 17:58:22 GMT -5
Christian's contract was winding down, and he wouldn't re-sign. They put him in the title-picture, and a PPV main event, and he wouldn't sign. What were they supposed to do? Give him a run with the belt as he's leaving? That would have been stupidity on a Russoesque level. Wow, this is so off the mark it's ridiculous. You want to know why he wouldn't re-sign? Because he was constantly treated as an afterthought. Not what Christian said at the time. The WWE had just changed their policy on the flights they were booking for talent from business class to economy, and that was a pretty big deal for someone flying over 100 times a year. He copyrighted the name because he knew he was leaving, and wanted to use it elsewhere. They pulled it from sales because they didn't own the copyright to the name anymore, and the WWE likes to own the copyright to stuff they sell. Every big company does. It's called business. The WWE Championship is a secondary title? This is what actually happened: Cena had just been drafted to Raw as new top babyface. Christian interrupts Cena's first segment and gets given Cena's first post-draft defence on PPV (due to their previous interraction at the Royal Rumble). Jericho later gets added to the feud - Jericho and Christian were both leaving, and what gives Cena the better rub? Retiring former Undisputed Champion Chris Jericho, or just promoted to the main event Christian? There is *no* point elevating someone with three months on their contract, if they're adamant they're leaving. All you're doing is building them up for a different company. I'm a huge Christian fan, and always thought he was under-utilised, but thos whole "Christian was berried in 2005" is just nonsense.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 8, 2015 19:43:11 GMT -5
Goldberg. I'm serious! The whole reason Vunce brought him in was to try to jump the ratings-and he promptly did things like having Bi come out of a broom closet or wear Goldust's wig. Why bother signing him at all then?
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Post by cahuette on Mar 8, 2015 19:49:52 GMT -5
Miz, he should still be main eventing wrestlemanias.
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Post by KobashiChop on Mar 8, 2015 20:03:33 GMT -5
This begins and ends with Ryder.
Bigger guys got their pushes crushed.
People got worse burials.
But the sheer spite and pointlessness of the Ryder one still baffles me to this day. He got over on his own merit, he did the hard work for them. He sold merch, he was over and they just ruined him.
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Post by molson5 on Mar 8, 2015 20:10:45 GMT -5
Not sure how it's possible to push every guy at the same time. Or allow every guy to win every match. At some point, booking choices have to be made. For every guy that wins a match, someone has to lose one. For every 2 guys in a main event, you're choosing dozens of other guys not to be in the main event.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 8, 2015 20:16:58 GMT -5
Not sure how it's possible to push every guy at the same time. Or allow every guy to win every match. At some point, booking choices have to be made. For every guy that wins a match, someone has to lose one. For every 2 guys in a main event, you're choosing dozens of other guys not to be in the main event. That part makes sense. The problem is that some guys are blatantly made for the audience not to care about them at all.
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Post by Some Guy on Mar 8, 2015 21:55:15 GMT -5
Wow, this is so off the mark it's ridiculous. You want to know why he wouldn't re-sign? Because he was constantly treated as an afterthought. Not what Christian said at the time. The WWE had just changed their policy on the flights they were booking for talent from business class to economy, and that was a pretty big deal for someone flying over 100 times a year. He copyrighted the name because he knew he was leaving, and wanted to use it elsewhere. They pulled it from sales because they didn't own the copyright to the name anymore, and the WWE likes to own the copyright to stuff they sell. Every big company does. It's called business. The WWE Championship is a secondary title? This is what actually happened: Cena had just been drafted to Raw as new top babyface. Christian interrupts Cena's first segment and gets given Cena's first post-draft defence on PPV (due to their previous interraction at the Royal Rumble). Jericho later gets added to the feud - Jericho and Christian were both leaving, and what gives Cena the better rub? Retiring former Undisputed Champion Chris Jericho, or just promoted to the main event Christian? There is *no* point elevating someone with three months on their contract, if they're adamant they're leaving. All you're doing is building them up for a different company. I'm a huge Christian fan, and always thought he was under-utilised, but thos whole "Christian was berried in 2005" is just nonsense. How is it nonsense? He did not win. At all. You can go on with the traveling reasons but I guarantee you he stays if they give him a reason to stay. They didn't give him a reason to stay at all. And it was a secondary title match because it wasn't as important as Angle/Shawn or Batista/Triple H on that very show.
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Post by misconduct was wrong on Mar 8, 2015 22:28:00 GMT -5
Ryder and Christian are the names that stick out. Once Vince and/or his people decide that they don't like a guy, there is literally NOTHING that seems to change their mind. Sure those guys will get mini pushes now and again, but get dropped off tv just as quickly.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 9, 2015 10:28:34 GMT -5
Goldberg. I'm serious! The whole reason Vunce brought him in was to try to jump the ratings-and he promptly did things like having Bi come out of a broom closet or wear Goldust's wig. Why bother signing him at all then? This 'the wig killed Goldberg' thing needs to stop. Goldberg wasn't dressed as baby new year dancing away a month after being in a main event title match. A midcard goofball babyface put the wig on him and then Goldberg threatened to murder him. He also got huge pops for his whole run bar WMXX.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 10:50:54 GMT -5
They made him Mr Super Face, and it failed. Failed miserably. He is like Roman Reigns circa 2011 People wanted Sheamus as a Super Face. They didn't want him as a smiley jokey LOLBROGUEKICK guy. Exactly. This is why I don't like Sheamus, because when he's on TV, this is the character he is depicted as. When people wanted him to become a super face, they thought he'd be like BikerTaker in 2003 where he'd be a top good guy, but could get away with being a serious beat-down kind of guy and not have to pander to the audience. Instead, we got the Jolly Irish Fella who has to remind everybody he's a Jolly Irish Fella. What they did in 2012 did nothing for him, and now in his current state, he's a liability. That's what you get for having non-feud after non-feud where Sheamus would win every week and then win the PPV match, with the main storyline being that the heel lobbies to hinder him, and at the PPV, Sheamus gets the announcement that "Hey, you can use that banned move after all!". No adversaty whatsoever. Another overpushed guy was Rey Mysterio in 2010. I really hated him that year because they would go on and on and on and on and on about him being "the ultimate underdog", yet Mysterio would win every single week and not be encumbered by adversaty, as well. Hell, he single-handedly destroyed the Straight Edge Society, who were then thrusted into another squash program with Big Show (and you guys thought his Local Man run is bad). Then, he legitimately injured Undertaker with his kneebrace, and would win the belt, which meant we could no longer call it the "World Heavyweight Championship" as long as he had it around his waist. But, you know, then in 2011, they gave him the WWE Championship, which I had no problems with... and he's now the shortest-reigning WWE Champion ever.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 9, 2015 11:14:01 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes. "Dashing", Dr Doom Cody, Stardust etc.... No matter what gets thrown his way, he hits it out of the park every single time. He should be a huge player by now. I really wish they'd give him the ball
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Mar 9, 2015 11:44:47 GMT -5
I'd love to see someone try and give 95% of the roster all pushes. Some people need to realize, if you're giving someone a push, that means others are going to have to be depushed for it to happen. Sure some of these examples are good, but as nice as it'd sound, these long lists of superstars can't realistically all look good at the same time.
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