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Post by Chip Chipperson on Mar 24, 2015 16:14:04 GMT -5
I'm finding that it becomes more and more common that wrestlers are taking advantage of their loyal fans. I'm moreso talking about amazon, gofundme or kickstarter accounts that are created simply to get as much from the fans as possible whilst giving minimal in return but a lot of wrestlers overcharge for things such as merch and autographs as well.
Now for the young guys like DJ Z or Jesse Sorenson who were just starting their careers and landed on hard times it can be a positive thing but do people like Jake Roberts, Scott Hall, Sunny etc who all made millions in their careers really need a kickstarter to raise funds? Do former WWE wrestlers who can easily make 750-1000 dollars (Sometimes A LOT more) for 20 minutes work really need an amazon wishlist in which people can buy them electronics and other gifts?
Then you move onto the convention circuit. The promoter charges the fans between 10-20 dollars to even get into the building and then you have every wrestler from Ric Flair to Pete Gas trying to hock merchandise for random prices. Then you buy a 20 dollar T-Shirt and it's another 20 dollars to get the wrestler to sign something and then another 20 for a picture and you leave the show having spent a thousand dollars feeling like you've been financially raped by a bunch of 1980's and 1990's wrestlers who's autographs will never really rise in value and will just lower. I understand celebrities do the same thing and so do former sports stars and they're just as bad in my personal opinion although you can make the argument that if you pay 200 dollars for a Shaquille O'Neal autograph it'll go up in value and continue to rise whilst a signed Mantaur photo is just going to drop and continue to drop.
To me I think if you're a former big star you want to keep that image up and not tarnish it. I'm not saying that they shouldn't sell ANYTHING but do they really have to charge extra for the autograph and then sell anything that isn't nailed down? Do we really need to send Sunny a fifty dollar bill because she wants cosmetic surgery? Do guys like Raven and Sandman need to sell you a 25 dollar T-Shirt, a 15 dollar picture, charge you 15 to sign it and then charge you another 15 to pose with you for 5 seconds? Is that a little much for anyone else or am I on my own here?
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 24, 2015 16:16:18 GMT -5
Gotta make a living somehow.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Mar 24, 2015 16:23:59 GMT -5
Gotta make a living somehow. The living should come from the booking fee (which is usually decent) and actually selling merchandise. If a wrestler wants to sell photos of themselves or a T-Shirt I think that's great. The issue is when someone spends 25 dollars at a table and then the performer says "Okay, I won't sign it unless you give me another 20". That goes past making a living and into greed
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 24, 2015 16:31:30 GMT -5
It's up to fans to use some common sense too. If meeting and having a picture taken with Sandman for example costs too much, they need to ask themselves "is it really worth the money? Nah, bollocks to it"
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Mar 24, 2015 16:40:26 GMT -5
It's up to fans to use some common sense too. If meeting and having a picture taken with Sandman for example costs too much, they need to ask themselves "is it really worth the money? Nah, bollocks to it" This. Price guides are suggestions. The real value of something is how much somebody's willing to pay for it. If people are willing to pay that price for a wrestlers' autograph, then it's worth that price on the market to that buyer. If it's not, then the price lowers very quickly (just notice the stories about Virgil when he's shilling, when traditionally, his "50 bucks for an autographed picture" quickly goes down to about "10-15" once Virgil realizes the buyer might pay for an autograph, but not at 50 bucks.) Same token when people get kickstarters or Amazon wishlists- if the fan is willing to buy something for their wrestling hero, you can't really fault the person for accepting it- and you could argue it'd be more of an assholish thing to do to take what the fan bought and throw it out or resell it (even though loads of wrestlers do turn around and do exactly that.) The only way it is taking advantage of fans is if the wrestler agrees to give the fan something in exchange for the donation, at the beginning, and then turns around and doesn't live up to that side of the bargain (like Scott Hall and DDP not following through on promises from their Kickstarter)- but then it goes to a different story of "the fan is effectively buying this, and not getting what they paid for".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 16:40:28 GMT -5
Its up to the fans really.
I went to a comic con one time where I saw RVD had a booth. I'm not the biggest RVD fan, but I was like, oh cool.
The dude was charging like $25 for pre-signed polaroids of just him. More if you wanted a picture with him.
I don't begrudge anyone willing to pay it, but even if it was my favorite wrestler I still wouldn't pay that much, but I'm also not an autograph/photo op guy either though.
T-shirts I'm more open to buying, especially if the design is cool.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Mar 24, 2015 16:44:27 GMT -5
Lots of wrestlers don't list their prices especially at an independent show. I'll give a quick example of something that happened to me when I was 15:
I went to a local independent show in which a TNA star that I liked was going to appear. This guy had been in WWE, WCW etc and I had been a long time fan. Bought a meet and greet ticket from the promoter which was either 15 or 25 dollars I don't recall right now but I'd guess it was 15. The website, promoter and company promised officially that everyone who bought the pass would get unlimited autographs from the talent in question and a free photograph.
So I walk up to the guy and I hand him my item for him to sign. He says I have to buy something for him to sign my 3 items and because I'm in Australia all his prices are way jacked up because he knew the value of an international talent. Got charged 15 dollars for that (We're at 30 dollars total right now) and he signs the 8X10 and 2 of the items I brought along. He then says if I want him to sign my other item I have to buy yet another 8X10 (45 dollars total now) and he would. I was 15, felt stupid for not knowing the rules and got conned out of my show money and only realised looking back that I got taken. He was also charging 25 dollars for a photo with your own camera.
This regularly happens to people and is the epitome of a wrestler taking advantage of their fans. The wrestler who conned me lost a fan that night and I no longer view him as a star I just view him as a piece of shit carny who had to rip off a kid despite making thousands of dollars on a tour.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 24, 2015 17:07:06 GMT -5
Hey it's their living....but f*** Virgil
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on Mar 24, 2015 18:55:14 GMT -5
On one hand, changing somebody to take a picture with you on THEIR CAMERA is absurdly silly any way you slice it. Same goes for charging for your signature when it's on SOMEONE ELSE'S ITEM.
Granted, these guys gotta make money, so I understand only taking photos with someone or signing something for someone if they buy one of your 8 X 10s or Shirts or whatever merch, but flatout putting sole additional cost on something that costs them literally nothing is absurdly scummy.
That said, this is by no means just a wrestling thing. Plenty of cult fixtures, be it b-movie actors or Penthouse Pet-of-the-Yesteryears or athletes of any professional endeavor are all represented in the convention hustle, so I wouldn't chalk this one up to just a by-product of "dis buziness."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:05:15 GMT -5
Don't knock the hustle.
Don't pay if you don't feel that it's worth it. Simple.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Mar 24, 2015 20:05:25 GMT -5
Lots of wrestlers don't list their prices especially at an independent show. I'll give a quick example of something that happened to me when I was 15: I went to a local independent show in which a TNA star that I liked was going to appear. This guy had been in WWE, WCW etc and I had been a long time fan. Bought a meet and greet ticket from the promoter which was either 15 or 25 dollars I don't recall right now but I'd guess it was 15. The website, promoter and company promised officially that everyone who bought the pass would get unlimited autographs from the talent in question and a free photograph.
So I walk up to the guy and I hand him my item for him to sign. He says I have to buy something for him to sign my 3 items and because I'm in Australia all his prices are way jacked up because he knew the value of an international talent. Got charged 15 dollars for that (We're at 30 dollars total right now) and he signs the 8X10 and 2 of the items I brought along. He then says if I want him to sign my other item I have to buy yet another 8X10 (45 dollars total now) and he would. I was 15, felt stupid for not knowing the rules and got conned out of my show money and only realised looking back that I got taken. He was also charging 25 dollars for a photo with your own camera. This regularly happens to people and is the epitome of a wrestler taking advantage of their fans. The wrestler who conned me lost a fan that night and I no longer view him as a star I just view him as a piece of shit carny who had to rip off a kid despite making thousands of dollars on a tour. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel that way but maybe you'll feel better if you take into consideration some other explanations. Traveling is work. Clearly the promoter messed something up. Nobody is flying to Australia and allowing a promoter to take 100% of the merch money unless they are well paid. It's quite possible the promoter was having financial issues and the workers, who flew halfway around the world, were trying to make a living on the trip. Obviously some guys are jerks, but I see lots of wrestler who are genuinely nice to fans. It's not just wrestlers. It just depends on the person.
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Post by Chairman of the Board on Mar 24, 2015 20:06:40 GMT -5
On one hand, changing somebody to take a picture with you on THEIR CAMERA is absurdly silly any way you slice it. Same goes for charging for your signature when it's on SOMEONE ELSE'S ITEM. Granted, these guys gotta make money, so I understand only taking photos with someone or signing something for someone if they buy one of your 8 X 10s or Shirts or whatever merch, but flatout putting sole additional cost on something that costs them literally nothing is absurdly scummy. That said, this is by no means just a wrestling thing. Plenty of cult fixtures, be it b-movie actors or Penthouse Pet-of-the-Yesteryears or athletes of any professional endeavor are all represented in the convention hustle, so I wouldn't chalk this one up to just a by-product of "dis buziness." Nailed it. Wish I read this before I posted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:35:37 GMT -5
I've never paid any amount to meet a wrestler or to get a picture or autograph. Just not worth it to me. But, if there are people who will pay it, I can't blame them for charging it. It's called Capitalism. If you don't think it's an equitable trade then don't give them your money.
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Post by froggyfrog on Mar 24, 2015 21:03:53 GMT -5
If people are dumb enough to pay someone that much for an autograph or a picture they deserve to be taken advantage of tbh. Anyone with self respect wouldn't give in to that
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
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Post by Chuck Conry on Mar 24, 2015 21:24:36 GMT -5
Oh the movie conventions are getting crazy. At a recent one, some Walking Dead folks were now charging 10 dollars just to say hi.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Mar 24, 2015 23:09:57 GMT -5
The only autograph I can remember paying for was Christopher Daniels at the first MLW show, and even at that it was like $5. If it was any more, I probably wouldn't have.
The only other times I can remember paying for a photo op was at the TNA house shows, when they have the photos in the ring and its a set fee for as many people as you can get, and again, only did this because each time it broke down to like $5 a head. Any other autographs/photos I have were at promo events.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 24, 2015 23:27:44 GMT -5
Which is another reason I will always think Hacksaw Duggan is the man. He was a vendor guest at the first Fanfest I attended, and the vendor had separate prices for autographs and photo ops. Well, I decided to get one of each, and my dad got a photo with him. At Fanfest, all photo ops are printed on site, so you get a 8.5 x 11" print plus the digital copy. When we came by the table later to pick up the prints, Jim greeted us like old friends and said, "Oh, hey, let me sign those for ya!" It was clear the vendor didn't like him giving away the autographs but it was also clear that Duggan didn't care, and the guy didn't say a word to him about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 0:29:43 GMT -5
Absolutely. Especially with GoFundMe nonsense asking fans to pay for things other than tickets to watch them wrestle.
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Chuck Conry
Dennis Stamp
zombies DON'T Run
Posts: 3,725
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Post by Chuck Conry on Mar 25, 2015 2:24:34 GMT -5
Oh the movie conventions are getting crazy. At a recent one, some Walking Dead folks were now charging 10 dollars just to say hi. How much of that is an exaggeration? An actress who has been in one episode of Walking Dead was charging $10 just to talk to her, not to mention overcharging for everything else.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Mar 25, 2015 2:47:47 GMT -5
Gotta make a living somehow. The living should come from the booking fee (which is usually decent) and actually selling merchandise. If a wrestler wants to sell photos of themselves or a T-Shirt I think that's great. The issue is when someone spends 25 dollars at a table and then the performer says "Okay, I won't sign it unless you give me another 20". That goes past making a living and into greed Might just be the shows I have hit and who I have met. But so far any name wrestler I have met,if you buy something from them they signed it for free and did a picture with you for free. Viscera-Was signing for free,either something you bought from him or something your brought with you. And if you brought your own item and wanted a pic with him it was $5.If you bought something from him the picture was free. Chris Masters-$10 to autograph and you got a pic with him. Again that is if you brought something with you to be signed. Like with Vis if you bought something from him it was signed for free and you got a free pic. Matt Hardy-$5 to autograph something and he would take a picture with you. And once again if you bought something from him free autograph and free pic with him. Stevie Richards-Free pics and autographs. He had a few things to sell but wasn't pushing them much. Hacksaw Jim Duggan-And another where if you brought something with you he signed for free. But he would ask 10 for a pic with him. Bought something from him and it got signed for free and you got a free pic with him. I in over 30 years of going to shows haven't ran into a wrestler that sold someone something,then charged them to sign it,then charged for a picture if you use your own camera.
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