Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,037
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 28, 2015 14:00:35 GMT -5
I haven't read all the responses so apologies if any point I make has already been made. I know who the champion is. I'm not going to forget who the champion is. I don't need to see the champion twice or more every week. I don't need to see the champion every week or biweekly. The champion doesn't need to be at every pay per view. I'm happy to have less rushed or poorly booked championship main events with crap endings due to said rushed or poor booking. WMAC Masters (yeah I know), Boxing & MMA (yeah I know) etc. Is the word special overused in this case? Probably. But is it appropriate? It is for me. I may be one of the few but I love the fact that Brock and Roman haven't had a physical confrontation during the buildup. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman vs Brock and midcard heel(s) handicap matches on Raw. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman and midcard face(s) vs Brock and midcard heel(s) tag matches on Raw. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman vs Brock in gimmick matches for no real reason on Raw before the big pay per view showdown. Pretty much. Outside of last week, I havent had an issue with Brock/Roman buildup. Those have been fine with the great Heyman promos and good Reigns promos. Now, Reigns not recieving a clean win on Raw all month and even losing? That I hated.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Mar 28, 2015 14:11:56 GMT -5
There really should be a group of people, a team if you will, whose job is to come up with compelling reasons to watch the show. I'd argue that the current roster is second to none in terms of talent but they just cannot write compelling stories which is a shame. Well that or other titles that could be used in such a way as to provide something to wrestle over while the World Title scene shakes out around Brock. Oh well, since there isn't I'll stick with Brock continuing to be the most entertaining thing in WWE that isn't based out of Orlando. I mean I wouldn't expect the writers of any wrestling show to have an easy time creating a show that feels like it actually matters without having access to the champion for 1/3 of the year. Even Hogan in WCW showed up more often. And even if you elevate the other two titles, they're still just the secondary titles. No matter how much you build them up, they'll never come close to being as important as the World Title, and it makes guys look like jokes if they just say "Well I mean the big title isn't around, so I'll just settle for this." And to address your last part, he's entertaining but he also won't be on tv, so will it matter that much? Like couldn't they have him lose, turn face, and continue to do that when he comes back in August against guys like Rollins, Wyatt, and Rusev instead? Second first, yes it will matter to me. Brock as champ makes things interesting, the whole "Who can topple Brock and take the title" stuff is far more interesting to me than "Face vs. Challenger of the Moment" that we get from the company on the regular. Brock, whether face or heel, makes WWE a far more volatile and interesting place, especially since he has forced them outside of their usually mold. Now on to creative, it should not be hard to craft stories that don't revolve around "Me want shiny". Personal feuds are amazing but they don't bother with them anymore (Bella v. Bella was the last and we saw how well it went). If they really wanted to try different, Rusev and Lana could easily target Nikki because of how Cena has taken it to Rusev for example. Then there is building and finding someone new for Brock, a BFG Series in WWE with people going through hell to face Brock is far better than "Me want shiny". People dying to face Brock and be the one to knock him off or questioning if the risk is worth the reward are all things that could easily be touched on. They just need to focus on actually being creative and not caving into the Superman booking that is Vince's desire. And there is no reason the US and IC Titles could not be built up either since at one time they headlined house shows. With the absolute number of HoF'ers that have held that belt, there is no reason for people to not want to hold them outside a failed creative idea that these are lower and worthless. Shit you can even go back to the old idea of the IC Champ being the potential number one contender since he (should be) booked just as well as the top champ.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 28, 2015 14:14:00 GMT -5
Doesn't matter to me.
I grew up watching wrestling in an era where you didn't see the champion wrestle for months between PPV's.
It was better back then. Oversaturation wasn't an issue.
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Post by angryfan on Mar 28, 2015 14:37:48 GMT -5
I'm fine with Brock retaining and us getting 3 or 4 defenses per year. It's what Hogan did, it made the title feel like something other than the hot-potato prop that it has become.
Not to mention we can get some actual builds to title feuds beyond "we have three weeks, let's do some 50/50 booking and rush it".
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Post by Dave the Dave on Mar 28, 2015 14:43:48 GMT -5
8 Brock defenses vs like 15 Roman defenses?
I'll take f***ing 3 Lesnar defenses.
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Mar 28, 2015 14:51:07 GMT -5
The title has meant jack shit for years. I don't even care about it. All they have to do is have storylines that mean something. The belts are props and the company has given less and less reason to care about them over the years.
SO yeah, I don't care if the belts aren't defended on PPVs because it doesn't matter anyway.
What I prefer they do is build Brock up better, that has been the problem. Have him waste Reigns big time. Have a few guys (Henry, Show, Ryback) come out Monday as Lesnar celebrates. They all want a shot. Brock destroys them all and laughs about it. Sometime down the line Brock shows up unannounced, wrecks some dudes having a match. When they ask Paul why he did it "because he can, and no one can stop him from doing what he wants".
Have Heyman ask who wants a title shot and no one does because they are flatout scared of Brock.
Meanwhile have a side story where Dean Ambrose is becoming more and more unhinged. He stops caring about his well being, he only cares about winning.
Finally during a Heyman and Lesnar gloating promo Dean jumps them and takes a beating, but refuses to stay down.
Have it happen a few times, then set up the match. You have the Beast vs the guy to damn crazy to stay down. That would matter more than anything they have done.
Otherwise just have Cesaro win it as he is the guy on the roster who can go toe to toe with Brock power wise.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Mar 28, 2015 15:49:03 GMT -5
Wrestling is fake and "Contractual Obligations" is merely a plot device. Do you have to be condescending? I'm not an idiot. My point is why watch a show about people trying to be the best when the opportunity f***s off for 4 months at a time? Because there are more ways to be the "best", most characters want to be THE GUY, and not the champ now. Cena destroyed that championship when the shows and advertising were all still about him when the title wasn't near. That accompanied with the fact that several people, since HBK have had feuds and personas simply out stealing the show and being the best despite not being in the title picture. The championship is a prop. Vince Russo gets a lot of deserved shit, but his idea that the championships are just props for storytelling is really quite basic and true. Should Brock appear a little more while champ? Yes, it would be ideal to have at least a few video packages and shit. They could just be edited hype vignettes even. But should he be on every show? Absolutely not. People pay to see him. I am one of them. Despite not watching since The Rumble I subscribed to the Network yesterday simply based on the fact that Lesnar resigned with WWE. Every few months is fine. It has worked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 15:50:50 GMT -5
i believe i'm preaching to the choir (if it's correct way to say it..) But i'd take Less Title challenges over Botched Reigns title... Reign...
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Mar 28, 2015 16:34:58 GMT -5
I'm fine with Brock retaining and us getting 3 or 4 defenses per year. It's what Hogan did, it made the title feel like something other than the hot-potato prop that it has become. Hogan defended the title a lot more than 4 times a year
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Post by angryfan on Mar 28, 2015 16:40:39 GMT -5
I'm fine with Brock retaining and us getting 3 or 4 defenses per year. It's what Hogan did, it made the title feel like something other than the hot-potato prop that it has become. Hogan defended the title a lot more than 4 times a year I was going with PPV's. Yes it was more than 4, but it wasn't "three weeks to a title match, brother" as we have now. Most of Hogan's "matches" were either at house shows (when house shows were the lifeblood of the company) or the occasional jobber squash. It wasn't "I'm gonna face the guy I'm feuding with, beat him clean, then do it again, have a schmozz finish, then I'll beat him again, then take a beatdown or dirty loss a few days before the PPV and then win the blow off". I was going more for the "it felt like it mattered" feeling, ya know?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Mar 28, 2015 16:45:30 GMT -5
Brock retains. Some stay dry and others feel the pain. WELP. HERE COMES THE PAIN. Brock retains. A baby born will die before the sin.
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Post by angryfan on Mar 28, 2015 16:50:26 GMT -5
WELP. HERE COMES THE PAIN. Brock retains. A baby born will die before the sin. Two things. First, God damn it, now the song is in my head. Second, does that mean Mania will be the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny?
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Mar 28, 2015 16:55:31 GMT -5
I'd like to see Brock retain mostly because Roman isn't over with the crowd yet. Brock should win and then turn babyface and feud with the Authority.
I'm hoping with this new three year contract they added more wrestling dates. I'd like to see him wrestle at atleast half the ppvs especially if he holds on to the title for a long time.
The rumor is that wwe is offering him a ton of money so hopefully they were smart enough to add more wrestling dates. Three times a year just isn't enough.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 17:05:04 GMT -5
I haven't read all the responses so apologies if any point I make has already been made. I know who the champion is. I'm not going to forget who the champion is. I don't need to see the champion twice or more every week. I don't need to see the champion every week or biweekly. The champion doesn't need to be at every pay per view. I'm happy to have less rushed or poorly booked championship main events with crap endings due to said rushed or poor booking. WMAC Masters (yeah I know), Boxing & MMA (yeah I know) etc. Is the word special overused in this case? Probably. But is it appropriate? It is for me. I may be one of the few but I love the fact that Brock and Roman haven't had a physical confrontation during the buildup. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman vs Brock and midcard heel(s) handicap matches on Raw. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman and midcard face(s) vs Brock and midcard heel(s) tag matches on Raw. I love the fact that we haven't had Roman vs Brock in gimmick matches for no real reason on Raw before the big pay per view showdown. Yooo!!!!!! That was the show back in the day lol.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,965
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Mar 28, 2015 18:14:47 GMT -5
Think back to Hogan. He never defended the belt on TV and there were only 4 ppv's each year. Survivor Series and Royal Rumble were all about their respective gimmicks and even 3 of the first 4 Summerslams were tag matches. That left Wrestlemania and the occasional SNME for him to defend his title. But it felt special because it seemed like there was a chance he could lose it.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
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Post by Jiren on Mar 28, 2015 19:19:26 GMT -5
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on Mar 28, 2015 20:04:40 GMT -5
Just as an example, Undertaker beat Hogan for the title November 27,1991. Hogan beat him for it six days later. A month and a half after that Ric Flair was champion. Flair's second reign about a year later lasted about a month. This rumour that the title was never hotshotted or never defended except on the second blue moon of the 8 millenial awakening under the influence of ursa major is a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying these changes were the rule but, title changes did happen and sometimes there wasn't a lot of time between them.
Brock has had 3 title defences. Of the 3, only the Royal Rumble one was good (great). So he's got a track record of only being good in about 1/3 of his matches as champ and he only wrestles about 3 or 4 times a year. That means you're looking at 1-2 good matches from Brock a year.
Midcard titles are not likely to be elevated for anything other than the short term. They have a wonderful history and I would love to see them important again but the second Brock drops the belt or perhaps even before, they're back to not meaning a thing.
Final boss thing would be interesting (I would love a tournament) but like the midcard titles they haven't done anything about in seven months, it's not likely they'll do anything about it post mania.
If Brock retains they need to acknowledge him once in a while. Four months with literally zero mention or sight of the champ is ridiculous. Some might not forget he's champ but plenty will. Also if he continues to just run roughshod over everyone, destroying everything in his path as some seem to want him to do, where does that leave the WWE when he leaves? When he's proven that no one is on his level and he leaves, we're supposed to suddenly buy into them again? Him being a long term champ that just destroys everyone would be just as damaging as Cena keeping his stranglehold on the main event. Either way you're not making new main eventers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 20:57:56 GMT -5
Just as an example, Undertaker beat Hogan for the title November 27,1991. Hogan beat him for it six days later. A month and a half after that Ric Flair was champion. Flair's second reign about a year later lasted about a month. This rumour that the title was never hotshotted or never defended except on the second blue moon of the 8 millenial awakening under the influence of ursa major is a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying these changes were the rule but, title changes did happen and sometimes there wasn't a lot of time between them. Brock has had 3 title defences. Of the 3, only the Royal Rumble one was good (great). So he's got a track record of only being good in about 1/3 of his matches as champ and he only wrestles about 3 or 4 times a year. That means you're looking at 1-2 good matches from Brock a year. Midcard titles are not likely to be elevated for anything other than the short term. They have a wonderful history and I would love to see them important again but the second Brock drops the belt or perhaps even before, they're back to not meaning a thing. Final boss thing would be interesting (I would love a tournament) but like the midcard titles they haven't done anything about in seven months, it's not likely they'll do anything about it post mania. If Brock retains they need to acknowledge him once in a while. Four months with literally zero mention or sight of the champ is ridiculous. Some might not forget he's champ but plenty will. Also if he continues to just run roughshod over everyone, destroying everything in his path as some seem to want him to do, where does that leave the WWE when he leaves? When he's proven that no one is on his level and he leaves, we're supposed to suddenly buy into them again? Him being a long term champ that just destroys everyone would be just as damaging as Cena keeping his stranglehold on the main event. Either way you're not making new main eventers. Bingo, especially on him being about. I'm not calling for weekly or even monthly title matches but more appearances or at least a video interview every two weeks or something. The spell from NoC to Rumble was pathetic. You should never have the champ off TV that long. They literally only mentioned to discuss the streak or nearly tapping to Cena. Being the champ was a rare topic. It is dumb and does not make things better or more special. Many things are rare while still being shit.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Mar 28, 2015 21:01:08 GMT -5
You do realize that means that if he holds onto the title (as in no Rollins cash in) that we'll have 3-4 pay-per-views in a row AGAIN with no title match right? Considering how boring the first 4 months without him on tv as champion were, I don't think we need another 3-4 months of that, especially since it's hard to come up with a worthy enough main event feud that hasn't been done already that doesn't involve the title in some way. At this point, I don't see how keeping the title on him is going to help the product at all I'm cool with it, I'm just a huge mark who doesn't care about consequences. Just want the guy I like the most to win.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Mar 28, 2015 22:44:14 GMT -5
During his off periods give us interviews/Training vids/Predictions etc, Hell use the social media as well (post Day to day stuff that's relevant to WWE/Wrestling/fighting).
He may not be there but he's still relevent to the company
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