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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 1, 2015 23:13:40 GMT -5
He's more than welcome to his opinion but not gonna lie, my first thought, "Dave, you gotta be on that Kryponite, brah" when I saw the rating for Roman/Show. Maybe I need to go back and watch it but I thought the match was good, not great as **** indicates. It's pretty damn hard to not have a good Last Man Standing match in WWE, especially when you are in there with Big Show who a lot of people underrate in big matches. Yeah, he's boring a lot of the time but he knows when it's time to step up.
As for Roman getting nothing but **** single matches on PPV...alright? Not sure why that's impressive at all when you consider who his opponents have been and that's he had four freaking matches.
1. Orton: One of the best in the company. So, duh. 2. Bryan: Again, one of the absolute best in the company, probably even more so than Orton at this stage of the game. So again, duh. Hell of a match. 3. Lesnar: It's Brock f***ing Lesnar and all Roman had to do for 90% of the match was sell. So, DUH. Excellent match though. 4. Big Show: Probably the most impressive out of the bunch but again, very hard to have a bad WWE LMS match so duh duh duh.
I mean, he's been holding his end of the bargain but let's not pretend this means he's morphed into some kind of super worker. He can keep pace which is great and what he needs to do at this stage of his career but I'm certainly not gonna ride his nuts over it.
I'm way more excited about the tag match getting *** 3/4 which is impressive for a match that went under 10 minutes.
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Post by thegame415 on May 1, 2015 23:25:00 GMT -5
"Star rating mean nothing, bro. Let's have Reigns shoot on Meltzer Monday. He brings out an imposter, Dave Beltzer, cause he has nothing below his belt! Swear on my kids bro it will be ratings"
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Post by Jacy Derangement Syndrome on May 1, 2015 23:27:28 GMT -5
Anyone else think that the rating for Cena vs. Rusev is a tad generous?
I was having a ton of fun watching the PPV and by the midway point of that match I felt like the Nyquil gods were beating the shit out of me.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on May 1, 2015 23:29:07 GMT -5
Anyone else think that the rating for Cena vs. Rusev is a tad generous? I was having a ton of fun watching the PPV and by the midway point of that match I felt like the Nyquil gods were beating the shit out of me. Cena/Rusev was certainly the worst match of the night, in my opinion.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on May 1, 2015 23:46:56 GMT -5
As for Roman getting nothing but **** single matches on PPV...alright? Not sure why that's impressive at all when you consider who his opponents have been and that's he had four freaking matches. 2 reasons: 1. Those guys don't get high quality of matches with everyone they work with which means Reigns is holding more than his own. 2. For a good 2-3 months people were talking about how Reigns-Lesnar was going to be a huge bomb at Mania based upon how Lesnar couldn't carry a match. It was talked about how The Taker match was horrible because Lesnar isn't a ring general (ironic now that some are now giving Lesnar all the credit for the Mania match). In the end it was a very good match that had the crowd emotionally invested in it. Then people talked about how badly the Chicago crowd was going to turn on the Reigns-Show match and even questioned why creative would even book that match in Chicago and they ended up having what many are calling the match of the night. Put this on top of people saying how Reigns needed a heel turn because of how horrible he is/was. How his career was over and how he would get booed out of every building no matter what. Instead he has slowly been winning crowds back, including a notoriously tough crowd in Chicago. If it were one good match surrounded by a bunch of mediocre matches I would agree. But when someone has been in consistently good matches they aren't being carried. Simply put, Reigns has proven that he is more than capable in the ring and has held his own every step of the way. If it were just due to the talent of his opponents then they would have great matches with everyone, instead all of the above have had some stinkers over the years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 23:47:13 GMT -5
Anyone else think that the rating for Cena vs. Rusev is a tad generous? I was having a ton of fun watching the PPV and by the midway point of that match I felt like the Nyquil gods were beating the shit out of me. For me, the first hour was excellent, then Cena/Rusev happened and I was hardly interested in the rest of the show. It used to drive me crazy back in 2010-ish when the top billed matches always sucked while the midcard matches were interesting and usually good. Punk winning the WWE title changed that for a while, but now we're right back there.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 1, 2015 23:54:01 GMT -5
A big reason why Reigns/Show and Orton/Rollins are getting as high praise as they have is because they followed Cena/Rusev and Naomi/Nicki. It's not hard to look good when you follow the two dullest matches WWE has put on in a long while. I fall into that as well. I enjoyed the last two marches, however, I think Dave rated them way too high.
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Post by Raskovnik on May 1, 2015 23:54:55 GMT -5
I don't put much stock into the **** thing, I just think it's hilarious that Reigns has been keeping that streak alive against all odds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 0:15:18 GMT -5
As for Roman getting nothing but **** single matches on PPV...alright? Not sure why that's impressive at all when you consider who his opponents have been and that's he had four freaking matches. 2 reasons: 1. Those guys don't get high quality of matches with everyone they work with which means Reigns is holding more than his own. 2. For a good 2-3 months people were talking about how Reigns-Lesnar was going to be a huge bomb at Mania based upon how Lesnar couldn't carry a match. It was talked about how The Taker match was horrible because Lesnar isn't a ring general (ironic now that some are now giving Lesnar all the credit for the Mania match). In the end it was a very good match that had the crowd emotionally invested in it. Then people talked about how badly the Chicago crowd was going to turn on the Reigns-Show match and even questioned why creative would even book that match in Chicago and they ended up having what many are calling the match of the night. Put this on top of people saying how Reigns needed a heel turn because of how horrible he is/was. How his career was over and how he would get booed out of every building no matter what. Instead he has slowly been winning crowds back, including a notoriously tough crowd in Chicago. If it were one good match surrounded by a bunch of mediocre matches I would agree. But when someone has been in consistently good matches they aren't being carried. Simply put, Reigns has proven that he is more than capable in the ring and has held his own every step of the way. If it were just due to the talent of his opponents then they would have great matches with everyone, instead all of the above have had some stinkers over the years. Those guys actually do have great matches with everyone, besides Show. And Roman's other matches with Show have people wanting to blow their brains out. I did like one of their matches, but that was because Big Show worked his ass off and I like when he gets into it like that. I thought the LMS was terrible as well, but that's the first match he's had with Show that was considered any good. The Brock match was great, but you know as well as I do that it was only good because they knew it was going to bomb unless they went out and stiffed each other to death, and that's what they did. He can't work like that every night and stay healthy, and since then he's worked nothing like that. The Bryan match was pretty much Daniel Bryan throwing his entire arsenal at Reigns, but Reigns countering everything by just no-selling or powering out. He was good, but that was a carry-job by Bryan and a story designed to make Reigns look awesome. The Orton match, that got 4 stars? It was pretty damn average.. It was actually quite boring until they picked it up at the end with some finisher counters and kickouts. Whoopedie doooo. I don't buy that Roman's some seriously capable worker yet, not at all. More like WWE actually cares about protecting him and emphasizing his strengths, unlike 90% of the roster.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 2, 2015 0:20:32 GMT -5
As for Roman getting nothing but **** single matches on PPV...alright? Not sure why that's impressive at all when you consider who his opponents have been and that's he had four freaking matches. 2 reasons: 1. Those guys don't get high quality of matches with everyone they work with which means Reigns is holding more than his own. 2. For a good 2-3 months people were talking about how Reigns-Lesnar was going to be a huge bomb at Mania based upon how Lesnar couldn't carry a match. It was talked about how The Taker match was horrible because Lesnar isn't a ring general (ironic now that some are now giving Lesnar all the credit for the Mania match). In the end it was a very good match that had the crowd emotionally invested in it. Then people talked about how badly the Chicago crowd was going to turn on the Reigns-Show match and even questioned why creative would even book that match in Chicago and they ended up having what many are calling the match of the night. Put this on top of people saying how Reigns needed a heel turn because of how horrible he is/was. How his career was over and how he would get booed out of every building no matter what. Instead he has slowly been winning crowds back, including a notoriously tough crowd in Chicago. If it were one good match surrounded by a bunch of mediocre matches I would agree. But when someone has been in consistently good matches they aren't being carried. Simply put, Reigns has proven that he is more than capable in the ring and has held his own every step of the way. If it were just due to the talent of his opponents then they would have great matches with everyone, instead all of the above have had some stinkers over the years. For the record, I was not one of those people, lol. With the exception of Big Show, all of those guys DO have consistently good-great matches with pretty much anybody they get thrown in there with. Obviously not **** every time but that's because it's close to impossible due to TV restrictions most of the time. Second of all, the sign of a great wrestler isn't just a guy who tears the house down every night. The sign of a truly great wrestler is a guy who can drag a match out of someone that's a much higher quality than what they are used to. Orton, Bryan, Lesnar, all three of those guys can do that and have proved it numerous times. Roman can't do that at this stage of the game and I'm not trying to blame him or bash him. I mean, how many times has dude faced f***ing Big Show or Kane on TV? Most wrestlers couldn't do a lot with those guys in 2015. He's still pretty young and has a lot of developing to do. I'm just calling it like I see it. Older, experienced workers carried him in those matches because that was their job. Practically every big name star that got pushed at a high level early on in their career was in this position. Sting, Cena, Batista, just three big names that were in the same spot as Roman at some point. It was Roman's job to keep up and to his credit, he did that. Hopefully, in a few years, he'll get to the point where he can be the guy that more inexperienced wrestlers rely on to carry them but the experience just isn't with him right now.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 0:34:07 GMT -5
2 reasons: 1. Those guys don't get high quality of matches with everyone they work with which means Reigns is holding more than his own. 2. For a good 2-3 months people were talking about how Reigns-Lesnar was going to be a huge bomb at Mania based upon how Lesnar couldn't carry a match. It was talked about how The Taker match was horrible because Lesnar isn't a ring general (ironic now that some are now giving Lesnar all the credit for the Mania match). In the end it was a very good match that had the crowd emotionally invested in it. Then people talked about how badly the Chicago crowd was going to turn on the Reigns-Show match and even questioned why creative would even book that match in Chicago and they ended up having what many are calling the match of the night. Put this on top of people saying how Reigns needed a heel turn because of how horrible he is/was. How his career was over and how he would get booed out of every building no matter what. Instead he has slowly been winning crowds back, including a notoriously tough crowd in Chicago. If it were one good match surrounded by a bunch of mediocre matches I would agree. But when someone has been in consistently good matches they aren't being carried. Simply put, Reigns has proven that he is more than capable in the ring and has held his own every step of the way. If it were just due to the talent of his opponents then they would have great matches with everyone, instead all of the above have had some stinkers over the years. For the record, I was not one of those people, lol. With the exception of Big Show, all of those guys DO have consistently good-great matches with pretty much anybody they get thrown in there with. Obviously not **** every time but that's because it's close to impossible due to TV restrictions most of the time. Second of all, the sign of a great wrestler isn't just a guy who tears the house down every night. The sign of a truly great wrestler is a guy who can drag a match out of someone that's a much higher quality than what they are used to. Orton, Bryan, Lesnar, all three of those guys can do that and have proved it numerous times. Roman can't do that at this stage of the game and I'm not trying to blame him or bash him. I mean, how many times has dude faced f***ing Big Show or Kane on TV? Most wrestlers couldn't do a lot with those guys in 2015. He's still pretty young and has a lot of developing to do. I'm just calling it like I see it. Older, experienced workers carried him in those matches because that was their job. Practically every big name star that got pushed at a high level early on in their career was in this position. Sting, Cena, Batista, just three big names that were in the same spot as Roman at some point. It was Roman's job to keep up and to his credit, he did that. Hopefully, in a few years, he'll get to the point where he can be the guy that more inexperienced wrestlers rely on to carry them but the experience just isn't with him right now. I'm not too sure on just how much of it is experience though. He's been in WWE for 5 years now including developmental. Meanwhile, Sasha Banks debuted around the same time, and she's way better than Roman at just about everything other than having a dick and being big.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on May 2, 2015 0:36:27 GMT -5
I read somewhere that that match with Reigns at ER is the highest rated singles match in Big Show's career. Big Show - Sheamus HITC didn't get at least 4 stars?
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 2, 2015 0:52:21 GMT -5
For the record, I was not one of those people, lol. With the exception of Big Show, all of those guys DO have consistently good-great matches with pretty much anybody they get thrown in there with. Obviously not **** every time but that's because it's close to impossible due to TV restrictions most of the time. Second of all, the sign of a great wrestler isn't just a guy who tears the house down every night. The sign of a truly great wrestler is a guy who can drag a match out of someone that's a much higher quality than what they are used to. Orton, Bryan, Lesnar, all three of those guys can do that and have proved it numerous times. Roman can't do that at this stage of the game and I'm not trying to blame him or bash him. I mean, how many times has dude faced f***ing Big Show or Kane on TV? Most wrestlers couldn't do a lot with those guys in 2015. He's still pretty young and has a lot of developing to do. I'm just calling it like I see it. Older, experienced workers carried him in those matches because that was their job. Practically every big name star that got pushed at a high level early on in their career was in this position. Sting, Cena, Batista, just three big names that were in the same spot as Roman at some point. It was Roman's job to keep up and to his credit, he did that. Hopefully, in a few years, he'll get to the point where he can be the guy that more inexperienced wrestlers rely on to carry them but the experience just isn't with him right now. I'm not too sure on just how much of it is experience though. He's been in WWE for 5 years now including developmental. Meanwhile, Sasha Banks debuted around the same time, and she's way better than Roman at just about everything other than having a dick and being big. Yeah but there's two big factors that are overlooked with that example. 1. Some wrestlers are total naturals and develop much faster than others. You got guys like the Rock, who were tearing it up at Wrestlemania with like less than 3 years in the business. On the other end of the spectrum, you got guys like Cena who really didn't start to get good until 2008/9. Up until that point, the quality of his matches were dependent on the guy he was facing and all the heat that his "controversial" status got him. 2. Big match experience. Sasha is used to working long matches down in NXT so it's no shock that she's so good. Roman, on the other hand, has had 4 PPV singles matches. That's barely a handful and there's a world of difference between a TV match and a top match on PPV, especially if you are gonna be feuding for the world title. There's where guys are really gonna grow, when the spotlight is on bright and you are a major part of a PPV. That's how Cena got good. He got big match experience by working with guys who could carry him. Having a f***ton of TV matches with washed up dudes like Show and Kane is gonna do absolutely nothing for him and shouldn't be used as a measure of his potential (or anybody's potential, honestly).
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,959
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Post by chazraps on May 2, 2015 0:56:03 GMT -5
1. Neville vs. Bad News Barrett - ***1/4 . BULLSHIT! This match was AT LEAST ***3/8 {Spoiler}(Friendly reminder that 1/4 star ratings are dumb.)
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on May 2, 2015 0:56:45 GMT -5
1. Neville vs. Bad News Barrett - ***1/4 . BULLSHIT! This match was AT LEAST ***3/8 {Spoiler}{Spoiler}(Friendly reminder that 1/4 star ratings are dumb.) It was clearly *** 68/70
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Post by berlynwright on May 2, 2015 1:03:30 GMT -5
Roman Four Stars Reigns is a good gimmick
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 1:07:04 GMT -5
I'm not too sure on just how much of it is experience though. He's been in WWE for 5 years now including developmental. Meanwhile, Sasha Banks debuted around the same time, and she's way better than Roman at just about everything other than having a dick and being big. Yeah but there's two big factors that are overlooked with that example. 1. Some wrestlers are total naturals and develop much faster than others. You got guys like the Rock, who were tearing it up at Wrestlemania with like less than 3 years in the business. On the other end of the spectrum, you got guys like Cena who really didn't start to get good until 2008/9. Up until that point, the quality of his matches were dependent on the guy he was facing and all the heat that his "controversial" status got him. 2. Big match experience. Sasha is used to working long matches down in NXT so it's no shock that she's so good. Roman, on the other hand, has had 4 PPV singles matches. That's barely a handful and there's a world of difference between a TV match and a top match on PPV, especially if you are gonna be feuding for the world title. There's where guys are really gonna grow, when the spotlight is on bright and you are a major part of a PPV. That's how Cena got good. He got big match experience by working with guys who could carry him. Having a f***ton of TV matches with washed up dudes like Show and Kane is gonna do absolutely nothing for him and shouldn't be used as a measure of his potential (or anybody's potential, honestly). Sasha hasn't had all that many big matches either, and it's not like she's working against extremely established veteran talents. Her best work has been with Charlotte, who's been around for like 2 years. Those Takeover specials only happen so often. Other than that, she's working normal TV matches and house shows, just like Roman does all the time. He's on the main roster working 4 shows week, that is plenty of time to improve. He is definitely stuck working with crappy people as of late, but that hasn't always been the case. It's great that Cena got good like 6 years into his run, but damn, that's a long time, and he was already on top for most of that. That really shouldn't be the norm, get pushed to the moon and get good enough to justify it later. What I think it is, and now it's maybe changing because he's in this spot and the fans are giving him a rough go, is that Reigns got good at a few things and got his ass-kissed by the office and thought that's all he needed to know how to do. If you get rewarded when your work isn't where it should be, why would it get better?
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Post by berlynwright on May 2, 2015 1:09:54 GMT -5
Reigns has been delivering so far. Hope he keeps it up. his matches do have big match feel. triple threat at payback would probably be another 4 star match.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 1:17:53 GMT -5
I only saw the last two matches and he's being way too generous to both of them.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on May 2, 2015 1:20:34 GMT -5
I'm not even sure how I would rate Ambrose/Harper, objectively, just because of how the match was structured with them leaving the arena and then coming back to finish it close to an hour later.
I thought Reigns/Show was the best match on the card, closely followed by the tag title match.
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