rippo
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 600
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Post by rippo on Jun 18, 2015 15:19:44 GMT -5
Yep. And Stings too.
I'm not a HHH hater but he's pretty much retired now. Those wins did nothing for him. They only damaged his opponents.
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Post by xCompackx on Jun 18, 2015 15:27:47 GMT -5
If John Cena didn't ruin his mystique by defeating Lesnar in his first match back, I don't see how HHH could've.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
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Post by Perd on Jun 18, 2015 15:32:42 GMT -5
Permanently? No. But was it hurt in the direct aftermath of the feud? I'd say, yes. At one point in the feud he was begging Paul Heyman for help. Brock Lesnar should never need anynories help in the ring.
His mystique is now intact and perhaps as strong as it's ever been. But it took Brock doing two things that literally never happen (beating Taker at Mania, Dominating Cena) to do it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 15:35:02 GMT -5
Of course not. There's no real discussion here.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jun 18, 2015 15:45:49 GMT -5
I guess in real life, fighters who are dominant might still have some losses on their resume.
Hell, Brock wasn't the greatest MMA fighter ever, but after losing to Mir, he went on a tear of five wins (including squashing Mir in a rematch) as was 5-1 (before retiring at 5-3 due to illness).
KAYFABE-
2012- Still readjusting to WWE after UFC. Not fully recovered from diverticulitis. Looked softer and less ripped.
DECIMATED Cena at ER. Absoltuley slaughtered him, in a unique match, but got cocky and Cena fluked a win with a chain and a AA on steel steps.
Defeated HHH at SS in a close match. HHH targeted the stomach in the bout, as Brock was still recovering from diverticulitis at the time.
2013-
Loses to HHH at WM after HHH damn near knocks him out (for real) with a knee to the face. HHH has to practically kill Brock to keep him down and eventually beats him with a sledgehammer and a pedigree on the steps. Outside of kayfabe, this was a stupid move and HHH did not need to beat Brock, but lets move on.
Beats HHH at ER in a screwy manner. HHH jumps him during his entrance and Brock injures his knee early on. HHH still can't beat Lesnar even though Brock is hobbling about on one leg. HHH kicks the one legged Beast's ass for most of the match, but Lesnar gets Heyman to interfere and hits an impressive one legged F5 for the win. Outside of kayfabe, HHH seems to have tried his best to make Brock look like a chump. This whole HHH feud is the one sour mark on Brock's new unbeatable aura since 2014. Also the matches were dull and Lesnar didn't feel special like he does now. Still, the record books show Lesnar 2, HHH 1.
Lesnar defeats Punk at Summerslam in a brilliant match. Heyman interferes to help him win, but Lesnar still looked like an utter monster in this fight. Punk also looked great, possibly his last great match. I'd say in kayfabe that Brock was getting to be 100% healthy by this point.
2014- Brock by now 100% healthy from diverticulitis. In great shape.
Defeats Big Show at RR. Brock looks like a chump in the build up, but jumps Show at the bell and just kills the big, boring bastard with a chair. Brock survives being hit with the KO punch, which is impressive and then manages to hoist Big Show up for the F5. After the bell Brock breaks about three chairs over Show's carcass.
DEFEATS UNDERTAKER AT WRESTLEMANIA, BREAKS THE STREAK, ABSORBS UNDERTAKER'S POWERS. Brock beats on Taker the whole match, as the Deadman seems to spend 75% of the match laying on his back trying to get to his feet. Brock kicks out of all of Undertaker's big moves and hits three F5s for the win. Brock is now super bork.
Kills Cena at SS. Just totally murders the top guy in the company. Becomes WWE champion.
Brock loses by DQ to Cena at NoC, after Rollins intereferes. For most of the match, Brock completely dominates Cena, but Cena mounts a comeback and hits Brock with three or four AA's. Would Brock of kicked out? We'll never know.
2015- Brock is the champ and looks in the best shape he has ever been in.
Brock defeats Cena and Rollins in a triple threat at RR. Brock takes an unbelievable amount of punishment; the dude just gets up from everything. Gets straight up after three AA's, a curb stomp, pushed through the barricade, into steel steps. In kayfabe he is the toughest motherf***er in WWE history. Austin wouldn't have got straight up from one AA. Brock survives an onslaught, including being elbowed through a table by Rollins to roll into the ring, survive being hit in the head with a briefcase and F5 Rollins for the pin. Dude is a straight beast by this point, its almost unfair.
Brock murders Reigns at WM. Reigns is resilient though and won't be pinned. Brock continues the prison beating. Reigns gets lucky and busts Brock open on a ring post. Roman hits three superman punches and Brock Lesnar does not go down until the third one! This move knocks the likes of Kane out with one. Then a spear to follow it up and The Beast still kicks out! Brock survives and hits Roman with another F5, unbelievably, but Rollins comes down, cashes in and pins Reigns, marking two years since Lesnar was last pinned.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jun 18, 2015 15:54:27 GMT -5
After ending the streak and squashing Cena, not in a million years, but before that it f***ed him up pretty good. Lesnar looked like more and more of a goof as the feud went on while HHH was presented as a destroyer of worlds. Lesnar did win the feud, but he won it in a match that probably wasn't even supposed to happen after Heyman had to run in the cage himself because Brock was getting the piss beat out of him. Coming out of that feud, Lesnar looked infinitely worse than he did going in to it. "HELP ME PAUL!"
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Post by Starshine on Jun 18, 2015 15:57:54 GMT -5
Lesnar was feeling notably less special after all those Triple H matches. The Punk match was a lot better but had similar problems. There's a reason no one bought into the idea that Lesnar could end the streak.
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Post by abjordans on Jun 18, 2015 16:19:01 GMT -5
I look at it like this. When Mike came back wearing the 4-5, he was still pretty good. But, a little rusty.
The next year he lead the Bulls to 72-10.
Once Brock has been in his groove, his mystique has grown exponentially. Hell, he is the only guy on the show with a damn mystique.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jun 18, 2015 16:22:04 GMT -5
I look at it like this. When Mike came back wearing the 4-5, he was still pretty good. But, a little rusty. The next year he lead the Bulls to 72-10. Once Brock has been in his groove, his mystique has grown exponentially. Hell, he is the only guy on the show with a damn mystique. Good way of looking at it.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 18, 2015 17:06:01 GMT -5
I heard Triple H went to a Zagat rated restaurant, took one bite of the food in the restaurant, pedigreed the chef and the guy never got on Zagat again.
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Post by CM Parish on Jun 18, 2015 17:07:42 GMT -5
No, neither did Cena. Let's be serious, Brock is booked like King Kong with t-rex heads for hands. He is booked as arguably the most potent monster heel that has ever wrestled on a mainstream scale. If you took New Day and gave each one of them a steel chair, they would be seen as operating at a disadvantage. Vader in WCW doesn't touch Brock's push as a monster, Undertaker outside of Wrestlemania is probably easier to pin than Brock. In his entire WWE career, he has been pinned or submitted, what, a dozen times, tops? No, his mystique is well intact. CLEAN Losses off the top of my head: Angle via tapout. HHH at Mania Cena at Extreme Rules Seth at Mania 3 of those are about as far from clean as you can get. He didn't even get pinned in one of them and lost to a MITB cash in. One involved a steel chain to the head and an AA on steps. The other involved a sledgehammer to the head and a pedigree on steel steps. Yes, they were legal, but it's not clean.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Jun 18, 2015 17:20:18 GMT -5
Maybe that's the real proof that Brock is unstoppable - not even a Triple H sabotage could derail him.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 18, 2015 17:32:08 GMT -5
Nah. Hell, I don't even think of their feud to be honest. It was just an odd, ill advised detour.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 18, 2015 17:44:38 GMT -5
CLEAN Losses off the top of my head: Angle via tapout. HHH at Mania Cena at Extreme Rules Seth at Mania 3 of those are about as far from clean as you can get. He didn't even get pinned in one of them and lost to a MITB cash in. One involved a steel chain to the head and an AA on steps. The other involved a sledgehammer to the head and a pedigree on steel steps. Yes, they were legal, but it's not clean. The Rollins one I'll grant you, but HHH and Cena both beat him fair and square within the rules of the matches via pinball. How's that not clean?
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Post by Clawley Race on Jun 18, 2015 18:32:18 GMT -5
No, it almost seems like it was a different run really. I might have just more or less block those matches out.
Kayfabe wise he was still just knocking off the last bit of ring rust against and all time great/still getting over his stomach issues a bit.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jun 18, 2015 18:47:44 GMT -5
Yes. Triple H berried Brock Lesnar and totally ruined his mystique. I don't think the casual fan even remembers Brock fought Triple H.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Jun 18, 2015 19:15:37 GMT -5
No. It is well known that Brock Lesnar is an unstoppable killing machine that can only be brought down by one man... The Cerebral Assassin The King of Kings The Game The Ass Kicker
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Post by Gremlin on Jun 18, 2015 19:23:38 GMT -5
Perniciously, perhaps.
He tried once but Brock went all crazy gopher eye and HHH backed on up off pretty quick.
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Post by xCompackx on Jun 18, 2015 19:28:43 GMT -5
3 of those are about as far from clean as you can get. He didn't even get pinned in one of them and lost to a MITB cash in. One involved a steel chain to the head and an AA on steps. The other involved a sledgehammer to the head and a pedigree on steel steps. Yes, they were legal, but it's not clean. The Rollins one I'll grant you, but HHH and Cena both beat him fair and square within the rules of the matches via pinball. How's that not clean? Nothing's really "clean" in a No DQ match. If you try and compare "steel chain to the head and an AA on steps" to "AA for the pinfall in the middle of the ring", it's nowhere near the same.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jun 18, 2015 19:54:36 GMT -5
The Rollins one I'll grant you, but HHH and Cena both beat him fair and square within the rules of the matches via pinball. How's that not clean? Nothing's really "clean" in a No DQ match. If you try and compare "steel chain to the head and an AA on steps" to "AA for the pinfall in the middle of the ring", it's nowhere near the same. It is when it's a level playing field. Brock had the same access to weapons etc as his opponents.
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