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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 6, 2015 22:36:00 GMT -5
I understand the concerns, but again, I'm just thankful that we got something else than the usual to close out the show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 22:36:15 GMT -5
Cesaro got thirty minutes with a guy who's being openly regarded as the greatest of all time. Cena has a match against Owens at Battleground we all knew Cesaro wasn't going to win but just to have this opportunity could very well have put him on WWE's radar again. They could completely fumble, for sure but this definitely brings Cesaro back into relevance. I can't fathom people seeing this as a bad thing for Cesaro. And just look at all the other guys who have benefited with feuds/big matches with Cena. Like the huge feud in 2010 with Nexus. Looks at all the stars it made! Oh... Well, what about when Sandow unsuccessfully cashed in Money in the Bank on Cena in 2012? At least he looked really good and defeat, and it would mean good things for him down the line. Right? Okay, how about that feud with Bray Wyatt last year. Just look at the wonders that did for Wyatt's character. And just look at how great Rusev looked losing to Cena over, and over, and over... Look I'm not saying everything's coming up daisies for Cesaro but it's not exactly doom and gloom either. Cesaro was already dead by the start of this thing so I consider this a shot in the arm, we don`t know what happens from here but that main event as it stands now is nothing to balk at. The wait and see approach has burned me hundreds of times but right now the story isn`t over and what they presented tonight was very good. EDIT: And furthermore, Wyatt got to take part in one of Undertaker`s last Wrestlemania matches so he turned out alright.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 6, 2015 22:36:17 GMT -5
Ok so I know about Brock going bowling for kids, Titus putting Jibbles in on notice, and Cena doing Cena things. Anything else of note tonight? Feel free to be as overly dramatic on how good or bad it all was. Hyperbole is always appreciated. Rusev revealed that his foot has healed. By sticking it in Dolph Zigger's face at a high velocity. It was great.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jul 6, 2015 22:36:45 GMT -5
I think I need to get the bolded part framed somewhere. Works both ways, though. Just as much as a lot of those who are dissatisfied with things are tired of having their opinions questioned, a lot of those who DO like things are tired of having their opinions questioned. Just need to co-exist better. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!?!
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Jul 6, 2015 22:36:51 GMT -5
I think I need to get the bolded part framed somewhere. Works both ways, though. Just as much as a lot of those who are dissatisfied with things are tired of having their opinions questioned, a lot of those who DO like things are tired of having their opinions questioned. Just need to co-exist better. Oh, I'm well aware. I just wish that both sides of that wouldn't get so amazingly aggressive with one another whenever Cena has a long match with an internet favorite. Not trying to be flamey here, but it's so silly when you have one side going "f*** CENA f*** YOU f*** EVERYTHING" and another going "IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THIS YOU STOP WATCHING WRESTLING RIGHT NOW." There's an abundance of bad vibes and it's disrupting my chi.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Jul 6, 2015 22:37:14 GMT -5
He sells way more merchandise than anyone else and his matches get better reaction than anyone, from where I am looking Cena is being booked pretty well lately. Here's the thing. His merchandise will always sell because the machine is behind him, no one else is given the same amount of air time, bookings, and promo time to really have a massive audience get behind him. Seems like whenever someone is close to dethroning Cena, Vince and company get pissed, and do what they can to marginalize their heat and kill their momentum. We saw it with Punk, D-Bry, and I am getting a bad feeling they're going to kill any amount of heat that Kevin Owens has. They need to move away from Cena, have a heel be booked to take him out of the picture for a lengthy stretch, and actually have Cena SELL the attack and SELL the outcome. What ruins the matches is these guys throw everything at Cena and he is booked to kick out everytime. But one lucky move out of his ass and they're down for the count. It's dumb booking in my opinion. And it's been like ten years of this booking. Of course Cena gets over but they've killed off nearly everyone's momentum to try and replace Cena with Reigns, and that didn't work so their whole roster is a bunch of goobers and guys that have trouble actually making stars. And merchandise sales don't make me enjoy him any more. I'm tired of his booking not only in his matches but in promos too because he STILL always has to get the last word in in every talking segment, he wins every feud, etc. He's stale.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 6, 2015 22:37:14 GMT -5
He sells way more merchandise than anyone else and his matches get better reaction than anyone, from where I am looking Cena is being booked pretty well lately. Here's the thing. His merchandise will always sell because the machine is behind him, no one else is given the same amount of air time, bookings, and promo time to really have a massive audience get behind him. Seems like whenever someone is close to dethroning Cena, Vince and company get pissed, and do what they can to marginalize their heat and kill their momentum. We saw it with Punk, D-Bry, and I am getting a bad feeling they're going to kill any amount of heat that Kevin Owens has. They need to move away from Cena, have a heel be booked to take him out of the picture for a lengthy stretch, and actually have Cena SELL the attack and SELL the outcome. What ruins the matches is these guys throw everything at Cena and he is booked to kick out everytime. But one lucky move out of his ass and they're down for the count. It's dumb booking in my opinion. That's pretty far into the conspiracy forrest. What do you mean by dethrone? If you mean beat in a worked wrestling match then maybe. Because of the panicked nature of their business model I agree that sometimes (going Cena vs Owen the next ppv and giving Cena his win back right way) is not the smartest thing. But if your talking about if there was a case where someone had outsold Cena, outdrawn Cena and the whole audience treated as a face I think there's no chance they would pass that money up. It just hasn't happened let.
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Johnny Flamingo
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Jul 6, 2015 22:37:43 GMT -5
He sells way more merchandise than anyone else and his matches get better reaction than anyone, from where I am looking Cena is being booked pretty well lately. Here's the thing. His merchandise will always sell because the machine is behind him, no one else is given the same amount of air time, bookings, and promo time to really have a massive audience get behind him. Seems like whenever someone is close to dethroning Cena, Vince and company get pissed, and do what they can to marginalize their heat and kill their momentum. We saw it with Punk, D-Bry, and I am getting a bad feeling they're going to kill any amount of heat that Kevin Owens has. They need to move away from Cena, have a heel be booked to take him out of the picture for a lengthy stretch, and actually have Cena SELL the attack and SELL the outcome. What ruins the matches is these guys throw everything at Cena and he is booked to kick out everytime. But one lucky move out of his ass and they're down for the count. It's dumb booking in my opinion. I do agree that Owens should go over but I don't think you can take Cena totally out as he is still the main draw for WWE, especially on house shows. For non-televised events he is majorly over so you do need to keep him around to keep that cash coming in. I do agree they need him to sell the damage more but I think that applies to the entire roster as well.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jul 6, 2015 22:37:44 GMT -5
Plus a lot of people are concerned that Owens might be booked to lose to Cena thus killing his heat. They have every right to question the WWE's booking decisions.
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 6, 2015 22:37:53 GMT -5
Again, as far as quality goes, the matches are great. But I'm not invested in them when I know there's zero chance whatsoever that Cena is going to walk out still champion. Also, the matches feel the same after a few weeks and sort of blend into each other. And before you call me a hater, I'm basically indifferent on Cena at this point. He's just sort of there, and seemingly always will be. And he'll never be the type of act that I'll be a huge fan of, and that's fine. But at this point I feel like Cena's character has been on autopilot since like 2008, and I'm just bored seeing him never change. I feel like he's really been busting his ass ever since Mania and has had some amazing matches and I feel he has freshened up a bit since starting the open challenge. Jsut gets tiring to see Cena busting his ass and really having some solid matches and after every Cena match that he wins you get the predictable "F**K Cena" posts no matter how good the match may have been. Again, as far as the actual matches go, they're great. And I get what you're saying about Cena busting his ass, and he has increased his arsenal. I'm just saying I can't invest into his matches at all when I know there's no chance of his opponent winning cleanly. It'll either be a clean Cena win, or somebody will come really close but Cena's rival interferes, costing the opponent the match (Rusev interfering in the Neville match & Owens interfering in the Cesaro match). I just honestly think this is a case where we're on different sides of the coin. You're a big Cena guy, and you're tired of the hate he gets, and that's cool. I mainly see Cena as the central figure of the show, the well they go back to in case things go wrong, and that's just boring to me. And maybe I am a bit jaded, since I was really anti-Cena for a while (hell, I remember being so happy when Edge cashed in MitB in 2006). I've mellowed on him since then, but to me he's basically a monolith. Something that's been here for a long time, and that I see no signs of changing soon.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Jul 6, 2015 22:38:17 GMT -5
Cesaro got thirty minutes with a guy who's being openly regarded as the greatest of all time. Cena has a match against Owens at Battleground we all knew Cesaro wasn't going to win but just to have this opportunity could very well have put him on WWE's radar again. They could completely fumble, for sure but this definitely brings Cesaro back into relevance. I can't fathom people seeing this as a bad thing for Cesaro. And just look at all the other guys who have benefited with feuds/big matches with Cena. Like the huge feud in 2010 with Nexus. Looks at all the stars it made! Oh... Well, what about when Sandow unsuccessfully cashed in Money in the Bank on Cena in 2012? At least he looked really good and defeat, and it would mean good things for him down the line. Right? Okay, how about that feud with Bray Wyatt last year. Just look at the wonders that did for Wyatt's character. And just look at how great Rusev looked losing to Cena over, and over, and over...
Nexus is the only one Cena is responsible for. Also, Wyatt actually isn't doing that bad right now, especially since he's facing Reigns. That's not exactly a step down. He's actually been going along as if he beat Cena.
With Sandow, Dunn or whoever was calling the shots with the writing failed him. They didn't need to put him in a losing streak.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 6, 2015 22:40:13 GMT -5
Plus a lot of people are concerned that Owens might be booked to lose to Cena thus killing his heat. They have every right to question the WWE's booking decisions. I choose to believe that Owens dropping the NXT Title is to pave the way for him to go over Cena and win the US Title on the 19th.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jul 6, 2015 22:40:46 GMT -5
Here's the thing. His merchandise will always sell because the machine is behind him, no one else is given the same amount of air time, bookings, and promo time to really have a massive audience get behind him. Seems like whenever someone is close to dethroning Cena, Vince and company get pissed, and do what they can to marginalize their heat and kill their momentum. We saw it with Punk, D-Bry, and I am getting a bad feeling they're going to kill any amount of heat that Kevin Owens has. They need to move away from Cena, have a heel be booked to take him out of the picture for a lengthy stretch, and actually have Cena SELL the attack and SELL the outcome. What ruins the matches is these guys throw everything at Cena and he is booked to kick out everytime. But one lucky move out of his ass and they're down for the count. It's dumb booking in my opinion. That's pretty far into the conspiracy forrest. You mean like when a PPV featuring Rock and Cena received a horrible buyrate and they blamed it on Awesome Truth?
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Rick Mad
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Post by Rick Mad on Jul 6, 2015 22:40:56 GMT -5
Works both ways, though. Just as much as a lot of those who are dissatisfied with things are tired of having their opinions questioned, a lot of those who DO like things are tired of having their opinions questioned. Just need to co-exist better. Oh, I'm well aware. I just wish that both sides of that wouldn't get so amazingly aggressive with one another whenever Cena has a long match with an internet favorite. Not trying to be flamey here, but it's so silly when you have one side going "f*** CENA f*** YOU f*** EVERYTHING" and another going "IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THIS YOU STOP WATCHING WRESTLING RIGHT NOW." There's an abundance of bad vibes and it's disrupting my chi. I think its emotional connections like this that fuel the business. The jaded fans that sit back like "whatever Cena won again who cares" aren't invested in the product, everyone like "f***ING A CESARO SHOULDVE WON f*** JOHN CENA RARGH" is just more invested now and I'll say it's kind of the only way WWE can get people to act as "marks" - acting like that is exactly what Cena's whole US Title schtick has been designed to do, and its constantly succeeded. The fans of the IWC favorites are being played, and I'm one of them, and I love it. I was livid Cesaro lost but the match was just about the first time in three hours I really cared, which is what the show needs more of.
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stealthamo
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Post by stealthamo on Jul 6, 2015 22:41:43 GMT -5
And just look at all the other guys who have benefited with feuds/big matches with Cena. Like the huge feud in 2010 with Nexus. Looks at all the stars it made! Oh... Well, what about when Sandow unsuccessfully cashed in Money in the Bank on Cena in 2012? At least he looked really good and defeat, and it would mean good things for him down the line. Right? Okay, how about that feud with Bray Wyatt last year. Just look at the wonders that did for Wyatt's character. And just look at how great Rusev looked losing to Cena over, and over, and over... Look I'm not saying everything's coming up daisies for Cesaro but it's not exactly doom and gloom either. Cesaro was already dead by the start of this thing so I consider this a shot in the arm, we don`t know what happens from here but that main event as it stands now is nothing to balk at. The wait and see approach has burned me hundreds of times but right now the story isn`t over and what they presented tonight was very good. EDIT: And furthermore, Wyatt got to take part in one of Undertaker`s last Wrestlemania matches so he turned out alright. Honestly, I think Chuckie summed it up best a few pages ago. Cesaro got thirty minutes with a guy who's being openly regarded as the greatest of all time. Cena has a match against Owens at Battleground we all knew Cesaro wasn't going to win but just to have this opportunity could very well have put him on WWE's radar again. They could completely fumble, for sure but this definitely brings Cesaro back into relevance. I can't fathom people seeing this as a bad thing for Cesaro. I've seen this song and dance before. I have no faith in WWE to see this as anymore than a good hand having a great match with Cena. I want to be wrong, but the track record says otherwise. As for Wyatt's match at Mania with Taker, it really doesn't strike much resonance with me. Yeah, he had a Mania match with Taker, but it was after the streak ended, so (at least to me), it doesn't really matter at all. The whole point of facing Taker at Mania was to beat the streak. Now that the streak is over, who really cares?
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Jul 6, 2015 22:42:59 GMT -5
Oh, I'm well aware. I just wish that both sides of that wouldn't get so amazingly aggressive with one another whenever Cena has a long match with an internet favorite. Not trying to be flamey here, but it's so silly when you have one side going "f*** CENA f*** YOU f*** EVERYTHING" and another going "IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THIS YOU STOP WATCHING WRESTLING RIGHT NOW." There's an abundance of bad vibes and it's disrupting my chi. I think its emotional connections like this that fuel the business. The jaded fans that sit back like "whatever Cena won again who cares" aren't invested in the product, everyone like "f***ING A CESARO SHOULDVE WON f*** JOHN CENA RARGH" is just more invested now and I'll say it's kind of the only way WWE can get people to act as "marks" - acting like that is exactly what Cena's whole US Title schtick has been designed to do, and its constantly succeeded. The fans of the IWC favorites are being played, and I'm one of them, and I love it. I was livid Cesaro lost but the match was just about the first time in three hours I really cared, which is what the show needs more of. Being invested in the product is a great thing, just don't take it out on other people!
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jul 6, 2015 22:43:15 GMT -5
Plus, Bray pretty much ignored the Taker match afterwards, and just continued his thing.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Jul 6, 2015 22:43:35 GMT -5
Works both ways, though. Just as much as a lot of those who are dissatisfied with things are tired of having their opinions questioned, a lot of those who DO like things are tired of having their opinions questioned. Just need to co-exist better. Oh, I'm well aware. I just wish that both sides of that wouldn't get so amazingly aggressive with one another whenever Cena has a long match with an internet favorite. Not trying to be flamey here, but it's so silly when you have one side going "f*** CENA f*** YOU f*** EVERYTHING" and another going "IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THIS YOU STOP WATCHING WRESTLING RIGHT NOW." There's an abundance of bad vibes and it's disrupting my chi.
To be fair, I don't think I've stated to people to stop watching. I know why they keep watching, because they hope the next week will be better. I don't think RAW has been too bad except for overplaying The Authority and Seth's Title reign. But the negativity around this board has been unbearable lately.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 6, 2015 22:43:49 GMT -5
That's pretty far into the conspiracy forrest. You mean like when a PPV featuring Rock and Cena received a horrible buyrate and they blamed it on Awesome Truth? That was dumb but A. They had Rock signed to that massive contract to do those limited dates and the Talking Heads match so they were kind of locked into craping on Awesome Truth B. Awesome Truth clearly was just the device to get Cena and Rock to tag to try to bump up the Survivor Series buyrate. I don't recall them being over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 22:45:10 GMT -5
Look I'm not saying everything's coming up daisies for Cesaro but it's not exactly doom and gloom either. Cesaro was already dead by the start of this thing so I consider this a shot in the arm, we don`t know what happens from here but that main event as it stands now is nothing to balk at. The wait and see approach has burned me hundreds of times but right now the story isn`t over and what they presented tonight was very good. EDIT: And furthermore, Wyatt got to take part in one of Undertaker`s last Wrestlemania matches so he turned out alright. Honestly, I think Chuckie summed it up best a few pages ago. I've seen this song and dance before. I have no faith in WWE to see this as anymore than a good hand having a great match with Cena. I want to be wrong, but the track record says otherwise. As for Wyatt's match at Mania with Taker, it really doesn't strike much resonance with me. Yeah, he had a Mania match with Taker, but it was after the streak ended, so (at least to me), it doesn't really matter at all. The whole point of facing Taker at Mania was to beat the streak. Now that the streak is over, who really cares? I think being one of Undertaker`s last (probably, right?) five opponents is a significant place to find yourself regardless of the streak.
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