Did Any Fans Like the End to Starrcade 97?

[thegame415]

Any?

[Deleted]

Probably Vince McMahon

[fortknox]

I'm sure Hulk Hogan did.

[Toilet Paper Roll]

What was there to enjoy about it? I still say it's the worst match ever because it took a two year build up and flushed it down the toilet with the absolute worst match possible.

It's as if they had someone script the match who hadn't watched any of the angle leading up to it.

Formula was simple

1. Sting comes in and beats the everliving crap out of Hogan
2. Hogan with ample interference from nWo takes charge. Sting eats a beating that he miraculously recovers from time and again.
3. Brest comes down and my god what side is he on? Helps run off the nWo with maybe some help of other wcw guys standing up for the company? Sting gets Hogan to tap... Sting wins yes!!!

Instead we got fed wet boogers seservein tepid milk

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2015 13:18:05 GMT -5 @monkeyduck said:

Probably Vince McMahon

I can imagine him with the hugest grin on his face, "Patterson! They f***ed it up! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go call Mike Tyson right now."

[somsta]

I would be genuinely shocked if anyone did. Everyone involved was worse coming out of it - Sting, Hogan, Bret, the fans...

[tms]

It was so ****ing depressing. Utterly miserable dreck of the worst order and encapsulated how frustrating it was to be a WCW fan back then.

I don't care whose fault it was, going by track record it wouldn't surprise me at all if Hogan was the mastermind behind everything.

[tms]

Aug 13, 2015 14:57:33 GMT -5 somsta said:

I would be genuinely shocked if anyone did. Everyone involved was worse coming out of it - Sting, Hogan, Bret, the fans...

How did Hogan look worse? He was a cowardly chickensh!t who suddenly flipped a switch and was able to effectively dominate the guy he'd been utterly terrified of for over a year. On top of that he had a legitimate argument that he beat the heroic, homecoming face clean as a whistle.

Hogan came out smelling like roses, in typical Hogan fashion.

[somsta]

Aug 13, 2015 15:24:09 GMT -5 tms said:

Aug 13, 2015 14:57:33 GMT -5 somsta said:

I would be genuinely shocked if anyone did. Everyone involved was worse coming out of it - Sting, Hogan, Bret, the fans...

How did Hogan look worse? He was a cowardly chickensh!t who suddenly flipped a switch and was able to effectively dominate the guy he'd been utterly terrified of for over a year. On top of that he had a legitimate argument that he beat the heroic, homecoming face clean as a whistle.

Hogan came out smelling like roses, in typical Hogan fashion.

Because once again fans blamed Hogan's ego for screwing up what should have been a perfect situation.

[Madagascar Fred]

Even as a 14 year old mark I was shocked how they could mess this up so bad. Bret and Sting looked like freaking idiots

[Starshine]

Sting should have massacred Hogan. It should have been a one sided squash. If Bret had to have been involved he could have taken out some invading NWO scrubs. But everything about this match was wrong.

[Ryushinku]

Hogan, annnnd...that's about it. Okay, maybe Brian Knobbs as well.

All these years later the damn thing still annoys me.

[héad.casé]

I think I remember reading in Bischoff's book when he spoke about this that the plan was for Sting to destroy Hogan, but that Hogan had seen that Sting was looking a bit out of shape sometime leading up to the show or even the day of the show or something like that and didn't want to play ball because of it. I hope i'm remembering that right. I definitely remember Bischoff saying Hogan was worried about Sting looking out of shape.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Aug 14, 2015 4:48:24 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

I think I remember reading in Bischoff's book when he spoke about this that the plan was for Sting to destroy Hogan, but that Hogan had seen that Sting was looking a bit out of shape sometime leading up to the show or even the day of the show or something like that and didn't want to play ball because of it. I hope i'm remembering that right. I definitely remember Bischoff saying Hogan was worried about Sting looking out of shape.

I doubt it, because they went to the trouble of using Bret Hart as a referee earlier in the show, setting up what would be the first of many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, MANY angles to revisit the Montreal Screwjob.

And of course, I'm sure Hogan had absolutely nothing to do with Nick Patrick's fast count not exactly being very fast.

[héad.casé]

“We went into Starrcade, the December 1997 Pay-Per-View, knowing that we had a hit on our hands. We’d been building the Sting character for a year, leading to the inevitable confrontation with Hogan. The anticipation was intense. It was a classic babyface vs heel confrontation with our own cutting-edge spin: an edgy babyface, Sting, taking on a good guy gone vicious, Hulk Hogan.

But for the first time since the very early matches, Hogan and I disagreed over the outcome.”




“The way we’d built it up, Sting should have been the clean winner. But Hogan was underwhelmed with Sting, and balked.

I didn’t really see his point of view. I had a hard time reading between the lines with Hogan because he didn’t come flat out and tell me what his issues were. But I think Hogan was disappointed with Sting’s preparation. Sting was clearly out of shape. He looked like he hadn’t seen a gym or a tanning bed in six months. Up until that time, Sting could get away with that. He’d show up at the arena and do his act wearing his black trench coat and his face paint; he didn’t actually wrestle.

This is me reading between the lines here, but I think Hogan figured ‘Hey, wait a minute. We built this guy up for six months. He hasn’t even bothered to stay in halfway decent shape and looks like he’s been living in a cave.’ In Hogan’s mind, that was a letdown.

Sing was a difficult guy to communicate with. He wasn’t a hard person to do business with – don’t confuse those two. Sting was very honest and for the most part straightforward, but in dealing with Hogan he kept his cards very close to his vest. There was a lot of – call it 'diplomacy.’ They kept feeling each other out.

I don’t think Sting really trusted Hogan. I think the lack of trust was somewhat well founded. There was some of it that wasn’t, but a lot was. Sting had spent all of this time building up this character, and I think it was important to him that the payoff be decisive and one-sided – and in his favor. He wanted the win to have creditability, boosting the character as we went forward.

Hogan, on the other, hand, felt that Sting hadn’t really committed, or he would have shown up in better shape. Therefore, he wasn’t that eager to have the match finish the way Sting wanted it to finish.

The way a wrestler wins or loses can be as important as the result. Losing a match on a disqualification, for example, is viewed far differently than losing on a submission. It’s not just a matter of ego. It has implications for future storylines and the characters involved.

Of course, Hogan had creative control over the outcome of his matches. So I was caught in the middle.

We came up with a finish that mimicked what had happened to Bret Hart in Montreal. Sting would lose, or seem to lose, on a quick count by referee Nick Patrick. Bret Hart would rush in, shouting something along the lines of, 'I’m not going to let this happen again.’ He’d toss the crooked ref from the ring and set up Sting to flatten Hogan with a scorpion deathlock. It wasn’t the finish Sting wanted, because it wasn’t clean, but it seemed like a decent compromise between two powerful pieces of talent.”

Found the actual excerpt where Bischoff talks about it. I knew I remembered something about Sting being out of shape.

[jmule]

Aug 14, 2015 5:29:50 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

“We went into Starrcade, the December 1997 Pay-Per-View, knowing that we had a hit on our hands. We’d been building the Sting character for a year, leading to the inevitable confrontation with Hogan. The anticipation was intense. It was a classic babyface vs heel confrontation with our own cutting-edge spin: an edgy babyface, Sting, taking on a good guy gone vicious, Hulk Hogan.

But for the first time since the very early matches, Hogan and I disagreed over the outcome.”




“The way we’d built it up, Sting should have been the clean winner. But Hogan was underwhelmed with Sting, and balked.

I didn’t really see his point of view. I had a hard time reading between the lines with Hogan because he didn’t come flat out and tell me what his issues were. But I think Hogan was disappointed with Sting’s preparation. Sting was clearly out of shape. He looked like he hadn’t seen a gym or a tanning bed in six months. Up until that time, Sting could get away with that. He’d show up at the arena and do his act wearing his black trench coat and his face paint; he didn’t actually wrestle.

This is me reading between the lines here, but I think Hogan figured ‘Hey, wait a minute. We built this guy up for six months. He hasn’t even bothered to stay in halfway decent shape and looks like he’s been living in a cave.’ In Hogan’s mind, that was a letdown.

Sing was a difficult guy to communicate with. He wasn’t a hard person to do business with – don’t confuse those two. Sting was very honest and for the most part straightforward, but in dealing with Hogan he kept his cards very close to his vest. There was a lot of – call it 'diplomacy.’ They kept feeling each other out.

I don’t think Sting really trusted Hogan. I think the lack of trust was somewhat well founded. There was some of it that wasn’t, but a lot was. Sting had spent all of this time building up this character, and I think it was important to him that the payoff be decisive and one-sided – and in his favor. He wanted the win to have creditability, boosting the character as we went forward.

Hogan, on the other, hand, felt that Sting hadn’t really committed, or he would have shown up in better shape. Therefore, he wasn’t that eager to have the match finish the way Sting wanted it to finish.

The way a wrestler wins or loses can be as important as the result. Losing a match on a disqualification, for example, is viewed far differently than losing on a submission. It’s not just a matter of ego. It has implications for future storylines and the characters involved.

Of course, Hogan had creative control over the outcome of his matches. So I was caught in the middle.

We came up with a finish that mimicked what had happened to Bret Hart in Montreal. Sting would lose, or seem to lose, on a quick count by referee Nick Patrick. Bret Hart would rush in, shouting something along the lines of, 'I’m not going to let this happen again.’ He’d toss the crooked ref from the ring and set up Sting to flatten Hogan with a scorpion deathlock. It wasn’t the finish Sting wanted, because it wasn’t clean, but it seemed like a decent compromise between two powerful pieces of talent.”

Found the actual excerpt where Bischoff talks about it. I knew I remembered something about Sting being out of shape.

Hogan didn't want to work with sting cause he hadn't seen a tanning bed for six months....

[Snake Pit]

Sting was clearly out of shape. He looked like he hadn’t seen a gym or a tanning bed in six months. Up until that time, Sting could get away with that. He’d show up at the arena and do his act wearing his black trench coat and his face paint; he didn’t actually wrestle.



This is me reading between the lines here, but I think Hogan figured ‘Hey, wait a minute. We built this guy up for six months. He hasn’t even bothered to stay in halfway decent shape and looks like he’s been living in a cave.’ In Hogan’s mind, that was a letdown.

That story must have been the inspiration for WCW to sell the ''blow up'' Sting doll. 

[Toilet Paper Roll]

Aug 14, 2015 5:29:50 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

“We went into Starrcade, the December 1997 Pay-Per-View, knowing that we had a hit on our hands. We’d been building the Sting character for a year, leading to the inevitable confrontation with Hogan. The anticipation was intense. It was a classic babyface vs heel confrontation with our own cutting-edge spin: an edgy babyface, Sting, taking on a good guy gone vicious, Hulk Hogan.

But for the first time since the very early matches, Hogan and I disagreed over the outcome.”




“The way we’d built it up, Sting should have been the clean winner. But Hogan was underwhelmed with Sting, and balked.

I didn’t really see his point of view. I had a hard time reading between the lines with Hogan because he didn’t come flat out and tell me what his issues were. But I think Hogan was disappointed with Sting’s preparation. Sting was clearly out of shape. He looked like he hadn’t seen a gym or a tanning bed in six months. Up until that time, Sting could get away with that. He’d show up at the arena and do his act wearing his black trench coat and his face paint; he didn’t actually wrestle.

This is me reading between the lines here, but I think Hogan figured ‘Hey, wait a minute. We built this guy up for six months. He hasn’t even bothered to stay in halfway decent shape and looks like he’s been living in a cave.’ In Hogan’s mind, that was a letdown.

Sing was a difficult guy to communicate with. He wasn’t a hard person to do business with – don’t confuse those two. Sting was very honest and for the most part straightforward, but in dealing with Hogan he kept his cards very close to his vest. There was a lot of – call it 'diplomacy.’ They kept feeling each other out.

I don’t think Sting really trusted Hogan. I think the lack of trust was somewhat well founded. There was some of it that wasn’t, but a lot was. Sting had spent all of this time building up this character, and I think it was important to him that the payoff be decisive and one-sided – and in his favor. He wanted the win to have creditability, boosting the character as we went forward.

Hogan, on the other, hand, felt that Sting hadn’t really committed, or he would have shown up in better shape. Therefore, he wasn’t that eager to have the match finish the way Sting wanted it to finish.

The way a wrestler wins or loses can be as important as the result. Losing a match on a disqualification, for example, is viewed far differently than losing on a submission. It’s not just a matter of ego. It has implications for future storylines and the characters involved.

Of course, Hogan had creative control over the outcome of his matches. So I was caught in the middle.

We came up with a finish that mimicked what had happened to Bret Hart in Montreal. Sting would lose, or seem to lose, on a quick count by referee Nick Patrick. Bret Hart would rush in, shouting something along the lines of, 'I’m not going to let this happen again.’ He’d toss the crooked ref from the ring and set up Sting to flatten Hogan with a scorpion deathlock. It wasn’t the finish Sting wanted, because it wasn’t clean, but it seemed like a decent compromise between two powerful pieces of talent.”

Found the actual excerpt where Bischoff talks about it. I knew I remembered something about Sting being out of shape.

I read bischoffs book (actually pretty entertaining) and I remember reading this part and tried to understand Hogan s logic ... So because Sting was pale and didn't look beefed up like 1988 Sting the obvious solution was to destroy a two year build by putting on a horrible match that fans would piss all over for eternity.

Or... Hogan only understood your place in the company was based on wins and losses and whined that getting his ass handed to him would make him look weak, put sting firmly atop the heap and nudge Hogan down the pecking order.

Bischoffs book is ripe with Hogan stories pointing out time and time again they needed to do something stupid to make Hogan happy

[somsta]

Aug 14, 2015 7:27:10 GMT -5 Toilet Paper Roll said:

Aug 14, 2015 5:29:50 GMT -5 héad.casé said:

Found the actual excerpt where Bischoff talks about it. I knew I remembered something about Sting being out of shape.

I read bischoffs book (actually pretty entertaining) and I remember reading this part and tried to understand Hogan s logic ... So because Sting was pale and didn't look beefed up like 1988 Sting the obvious solution was to destroy a two year build by putting on a horrible match that fans would piss all over for eternity.

Or... Hogan only understood your place in the company was based on wins and losses and whined that getting his ass handed to him would make him look weak, put sting firmly atop the heap and nudge Hogan down the pecking order.

Bischoffs book is ripe with Hogan stories pointing out time and time again they needed to do something stupid to make Hogan happy

I listen to Kevin Sullivan's podcast and it's ridiculous how much control Hogan had over that company. Like for two weeks on Nitro he wanted every match to have dq finishes so that when he went over clean in the main event the next week it would mean more.

[Slingshot Suplay]

Even with this bs shenanigans, it could have worked if Nick Patrick actually made a fast 3 count instead of a regular one that Bret and the announcers had to cover for...