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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 4, 2015 16:37:06 GMT -5
I think that all the cards are being played to make Sami or Finn as their "Ace" with guys like owens and the shield as the upper midcards I can see Finn as an Ace. Sami I'm not sure if he can get to that level without YES! movement-level hijacking from the fans.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Oct 4, 2015 16:45:34 GMT -5
If Jeff Hardy never left he would've been THE GUY for a long time. They had their chance with Punk, Bryan, and even Ambrose but they decided to get cold feet and keep riding the Cena train.
Eventually it's going to happen whether Cena moves on from the business via Hollywood or other interests. They need to start grooming for the future before they literally have no one to take the ball.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 4, 2015 17:00:43 GMT -5
Not if they don't build any. Parity booking prevents it, as does putting over established guys at the expense of new ones, or putting new guys into boring cliched roles.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Oct 4, 2015 17:46:13 GMT -5
As long as Mrs. Chief Brand Officer is in charge, there won't be.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 4, 2015 17:54:23 GMT -5
They alienated Punk and drove him out of the business, they wasted shitloads of time with Bryan and then he got hurt, they've never pulled the trigger on Ziggler, Cesaro is a useful jobber to them, Seth is a corporate clone, Ambrose is "CRAY-ZEE", they did Reigns no favours at all with their booking, Owens was sacrificed to Cena, etc....
They've had plenty of opportunities to build several top guys who could carry the torch but they won't do it.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Oct 4, 2015 18:27:04 GMT -5
They alienated Punk and drove him out of the business, they wasted shitloads of time with Bryan and then he got hurt, they've never pulled the trigger on Ziggler, Cesaro is a useful jobber to them, Seth is a corporate clone, Ambrose is "CRAY-ZEE", they did Reigns no favours at all with their booking, Owens was sacrificed to Cena, etc.... They've had plenty of opportunities to build several top guys who could carry the torch but they won't do it. Then what will they do if say tomorrow hypothetically speaking Cena said "You know what, I'm done."? Same with Big Show, Kane, and Orton? They'd really be in a tough spot then.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 4, 2015 18:38:54 GMT -5
Without Cena they'd be up shit creek.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 4, 2015 19:13:41 GMT -5
They alienated Punk and drove him out of the business, they wasted shitloads of time with Bryan and then he got hurt, they've never pulled the trigger on Ziggler, Cesaro is a useful jobber to them, Seth is a corporate clone, Ambrose is "CRAY-ZEE", they did Reigns no favours at all with their booking, Owens was sacrificed to Cena, etc.... They've had plenty of opportunities to build several top guys who could carry the torch but they won't do it. Then what will they do if say tomorrow hypothetically speaking Cena said "You know what, I'm done."? Same with Big Show, Kane, and Orton? They'd really be in a tough spot then. Honestly Cena leaving won't hurt them THAT badly. They've spent the last four years since the end of the brand split building up a massive (and quite honestly overpopulated) uppercard. It honestly feels like there are more "main eventers" on TV than proper midcarders (which only really consists of Cesaro, New Day, Stardust and Neville). Pretty much anyone who isn't a lower card geek or in a tag team could be plugged into the title picture anytime. If all the old guard leaves, it just means more Shield, more Wyatt, more Sheamus, more Dolph, more Ryback, more Rusev, more Owens, more Miz, and maybe they'll finally clear Bryan to wrestle.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Oct 4, 2015 21:19:42 GMT -5
I thought Kevin Owen could reach it, until WWE got cold feet and let him get Cena'd. Now he's just another guy. Are you serious? Kevin Owens doesn NOT have a marketable look. He is good, but he's not the guy to build a company around. Give him a bowcut, blush and overalls and have the fans call him Stewart.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Oct 4, 2015 21:30:53 GMT -5
Heres how WWE builds top stars.
Have them win MITB
Have them carry around the briefcase all the while losing
Have them cash in and win
Have them hold the title for a while
Have them lose the title
Rejoin midcard
Repeat process with someone else
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Oct 4, 2015 21:43:35 GMT -5
They could have done it with Daniel Bryan, but the fact that they didn't really want to and were forced to by the fans and his injuries put the kibosh on that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 22:02:19 GMT -5
Could have been Punk in 2011, but they derailed him. Could have been Bryan in 2013, but he was jerked around. Could have been Ambrose in 2014, but they threw Bray "Wet Blanket" Wyatt on him. 3 examples within 3 years where they've sabotaged a guy who was on fire with the fans and moving merch. It's bullshit. I think what happened with Ambrose is pretty under-discussed. He was really on fire when he came back from Seth's betrayal and the cinderblock curb stomp. They went too "wacky" with him though. Then, as he's about to get revenge and defeat Seth at HIAC, random Bray Wyatt feud. WWE likes to put those signs up backstage with little aphorisms about performance. In the writers' room, I like to think there's one that says LOGIC = DEFIED MISSION = ACCOMPLISHED
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 4, 2015 22:03:16 GMT -5
I thought Kevin Owen could reach it, until WWE got cold feet and let him get Cena'd. Now he's just another guy. Are you serious? Kevin Owens doesn NOT have a marketable look. He is good, but he's not the guy to build a company around. I don't think looks or appearances are anywhere near as important as they were in the past. It's more personality, charisma and character now that the fans like. Punk & Bryan didn't have traditional, marketable looks yet both became two of, if not the most over guys in the company. Likewise ADR had a marketable look but nobody gave a toss about him. Owens has the character and personality to connect with the audience,
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 4, 2015 22:09:10 GMT -5
Are you serious? Kevin Owens doesn NOT have a marketable look. He is good, but he's not the guy to build a company around. I don't think looks or appearances are anywhere near as important as they were in the past. It's more personality, charisma and character now that the fans like. Punk & Bryan didn't have traditional, marketable looks yet both became two of, if not the most over guys in the company. Likewise ADR had a marketable look but nobody gave a toss about him. Owens has the character and personality to connect with the audience, Just to add to your point, I don't think this whole "look" thing should even matter at this point. The face of the company for the past ten years wrestles in sneakers and jean shorts. Owens at least wears wrestling boots. Besides, get past the "fat" thing and really look at Owens. He's a handsome dude, and if he turns babyface has a total Al Borland likeability to him.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Oct 4, 2015 22:21:45 GMT -5
As long as Mrs. Chief Brand Officer is in charge, there won't be. I'll go so far as to say as long as the husband of the boss wants to main event the biggest show of the year they won't. They waste a lot of time keeping him and his peers relevant and not showing that a new generation can be dominant. Hogan took the mantle when Vince let Bruno be the house draw and Hogan the TV star and he completely left Backlund THE guy prior go off into a near decade of irrelevance. The attitude era rose when Vince tried to write off the Rock N Wrestling era and let the reliable fall backs Bret go and watched Micheals disappear for almost half a decade. People blame Cena, but even if Cena or any of the current fallbacks get a guy over they still have to prove themselves by carrying one of the part time attitude dinosaurs (usually Trips himself) to a competitive match. They tell us every Mania that the people you have been watching all year aren't as important, impactful, or worthwhile as Triple H, Undertaker, Rock, etc.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Oct 5, 2015 7:25:19 GMT -5
I think that all the cards are being played to make Sami or Finn as their "Ace" with guys like owens and the shield as the upper midcards I can see Finn as an Ace. Sami I'm not sure if he can get to that level without YES! movement-level hijacking from the fans. Sami's the faciest of faces, with his music, skanking and general happy outlook, dude's definitely gonna be marketable. And his in ring work will just amplify that. Balor's a sure thing too, good looking, young & a good wrestler. Even got the added "exotic" bonus of being Irish.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Oct 5, 2015 13:55:35 GMT -5
It's hard for them to have that main draw house hold name type guy now because you either have guys like Daniel Bryan who are super over but aren't marketable enough or guys like Roman Reigns who are marketable enough but aren't over enough because fans resent that they're getting shoved down their throats. Whoever that next guy is going to be is going have both qualities and be handled better and more carefully by the bookers. If they really want to get behind a guy who they think has the potential to be the next mega star they should push him and protect him but at the same have him take some losses and show ass here and there. Book him strong and build him up with an even kiel push for a few years while not over doing it, and then if he gets over and maintains positive reactions strap the rocket to him. For some reason they can never find that happy medium as they either have guys lose too much where they lose credibility or they book them too strong and have them never lose like Reigns where the fans start to resent the guy for not having to pay dues and jump through all the hoops like everyone else.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Oct 5, 2015 14:15:13 GMT -5
How easy did they transition from Austin and Rock onto the next big star as they were done by 2003?
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 5, 2015 14:49:28 GMT -5
I can see Finn as an Ace. Sami I'm not sure if he can get to that level without YES! movement-level hijacking from the fans. Sami's the faciest of faces, with his music, skanking and general happy outlook, dude's definitely gonna be marketable. And his in ring work will just amplify that. Balor's a sure thing too, good looking, young & a good wrestler. Even got the added "exotic" bonus of being Irish. Once Vince cedes even more control to HHH (assuming that's ever the plan), is the "Irish" thing even going to matter so much anymore? Yeah, we know that Vince and his old man before him both love All Things Irish, but I kind of doubt that HHH cares nearly that much.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Oct 5, 2015 14:52:06 GMT -5
The problem is not that there will never be another main draw, the problem is who the fans want as a main draw and what WWE wants as a main draw are two different sides of the spectrum.
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