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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 2, 2015 8:55:16 GMT -5
Because to be frank, most people would rather turn their face to the window.
or to the wall.
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Post by hossfan on Dec 2, 2015 9:05:06 GMT -5
They don't care about ratings. They care about ticket sales. And network subscriptions which were quite good in the third quarter of 2015.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2015 9:05:55 GMT -5
So how long 'till Disney buys WWE? That'll never, ever happen. While Vince would jump at the chance to sell to Disney if they opened their chequebook, the whole thing would fall apart the moment Disney did any sort of investigation into the way the company is run and what it's built on as part of due diligence. There are more skeletons in Vince's closet than there are do-rags and pastel coloured suits and the talent are worse, so many alleged date rapists, pimps, racists and even murderers have had their sins whitewashed by the WWE, so many guys dropping dead at young ages that there is no way in hell they would touch them based on the potential bad PR alone, it's something the WWE can shrug off as an already maligned company but it would not do anything remotely good for the family friendly image of a company like Disney. Then there's the fact that the company is built on the independent contractor lie, something that former talents are bound to challenge and win someday soon, the various former talents who're going to be suing because of concussions and other long term injuries they can link to the WWE schedule and so on and so forth. If they did buy it, it would get the Saban treatment, they bought Saban for Power Rangers, the regime changed and decided they no longer wanted it so simply canned the show despite the producers doing everything they can to make it as cheap and as profitable as possible. They eventually sold Power Rangers back, and digimon at a later date, but most of Saban's output sits in the vaults of the House of Mouse, a place that the WWE's output and various purchased libraries would be left to rot too.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2015 9:08:41 GMT -5
They don't care about ratings. They care about ticket sales. That would be why they've booked the WWE around Raw for the longest time, just look at how they stripped Smackdown of it's stars until it could no longer stand as a brand, just to get a momentary increase in Raw's Ratings, look at how they got into the habit of giving away PPV matches on Raw the week before the event and using TV ratings to justify depushes.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 2, 2015 9:15:03 GMT -5
Anyone else kind of getting shades of 92?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2015 9:33:06 GMT -5
Anyone else kind of getting shades of 92? I'd say 95-96, ratings are in the toilet, bringing in names from the past isn't working (Warrior/Lesnar), nor is ploughing ahead with the main event pushes of guys the audience don't really want on top (Shawn Michaels/Reigns) and the guy who keeps the ship steady is off working on other projects (Bret/Cena). To make matters worse, there's a chance that some of the few stars they have will leave to do other things (Hall and Nash to WCW, Sheamus to do films if the TMNT gig is well received) and their product looks 10 years behind the times in a changing media landscape, no matter how hard they try to put lipstick on a pig by trumpeting about how successful they are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 9:38:27 GMT -5
There isn't any easy fix and ratings are going to keep falling for the foreseeable future even if the course is righted, they start giving fans exactly what they want, and Raw starts being compelling TV again.
They've for years slowly eroded away all the goodwill fans had toward them - this has really been a process that's been slowly going on and getting worse and worse since 2001 or so - and this year it's finally bitten them on the ass. Just like it took years to get people to give up on them, it's going to take years to renew people's confidence because any hot streak they get on is just going to be met with people waiting for when they inevitably f*** it up.
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Post by angryfan on Dec 2, 2015 9:45:19 GMT -5
I keep wishing there was a quick fix, but sadly, it's two fold. Step one get out of the way. Step two, the wrestlers "turning themselves up to 11" has to have someone that catches on with the audience. That's what gave us Austin and Rock, hell that's what actually got Cena over, so trying it again instaed of "go read the f***ing cue card" has to be worth a try.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 2, 2015 9:47:24 GMT -5
Anyone else kind of getting shades of 92? I'd say 95-96, ratings are in the toilet, bringing in names from the past isn't working (Warrior/Lesnar), nor is ploughing ahead with the main event pushes of guys the audience don't really want on top (Shawn Michaels/Reigns) and the guy who keeps the ship steady is off working on other projects (Bret/Cena). To make matters worse, there's a chance that some of the few stars they have will leave to do other things (Hall and Nash to WCW, Sheamus to do films if the TMNT gig is well received) and their product looks 10 years behind the times in a changing media landscape, no matter how hard they try to put lipstick on a pig by trumpeting about how successful they are. But like, there's been such a steep drop in ratings. 92 was when business took a big downturn and efforts to reverse that tide were ineffective, 95/96 the business was essentially still smarting from the effects of 92. Of course there are major differences between now and 92. The wave of scandals, the scandals threatening their kid friendly image, losing valuable syndication deals, WWE Network, USA Network television deal. It saves WWE's hide big time, at least for the short term, that they have a firm commitment deal for several years with USA Network and USA has been struggling to make new hits the past few years.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2015 10:35:55 GMT -5
But like, there's been such a steep drop in ratings. 92 was when business took a big downturn and efforts to reverse that tide were ineffective, 95/96 the business was essentially still smarting from the effects of 92. Of course there are major differences between now and 92. The wave of scandals, the scandals threatening their kid friendly image, losing valuable syndication deals, WWE Network, USA Network television deal. It saves WWE's hide big time, at least for the short term, that they have a firm commitment deal for several years with USA Network and USA has been struggling to make new hits the past few years. In 90/91 the WWE were in a much better position than they were in the past few years so to me 92 is more akin to the ratings death in the years after the Attitude Era where everything just fell apart as a result of Vince's arrogance, the assumption that since he's vanquished a major enemy (WCW/AWA), their fans will just flock to him whatever he does when in reality they just turn off, and to make matters worse, his product drove off many of the fans he already had because he started building it around side projects like the WBF and XFL. To me, it's more like the 95-97 period because the TV ratings drop has been a long time coming, he took the fanbase for granted and finally the chickens are coming home to roost, unfortunately there's no-one on the creative side who will challenge him and no WCW to hire former stars and keep him from slipping back into his comfort zone. In 96, there was no Hogan or Savage available, unfortunately now they have nearly all the stars from the past decade at their disposal so the next Austin/Foley won't get their shot.
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Post by Just call me D.j.m. on Dec 2, 2015 10:39:41 GMT -5
But will the ratings bend over to the front and touch their toes?
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Juice
El Dandy
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Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Dec 2, 2015 10:40:08 GMT -5
They don't care about ratings. They care about ticket sales. That would be why they've booked the WWE around Raw for the longest time, just look at how they stripped Smackdown of it's stars until it could no longer stand as a brand, just to get a momentary increase in Raw's Ratings, look at how they got into the habit of giving away PPV matches on Raw the week before the event and using TV ratings to justify depushes. Its pretty well documented that the numbers only matter for ticket sales. Despite a huge decline in ratings they are still at a high spot only losing to football. So no, the ratings on cable dont matter nearly as much as house who ticket sales. And as mentioned network subscriptions. Ratings mean dick because cable is a vast wasteland. And in seemingly every conference call Vince or hhh address this verbatim.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2015 11:02:22 GMT -5
Its pretty well documented that the numbers only matter for ticket sales. Despite a huge decline in ratings they are still at a high spot only losing to football. So no, the ratings on cable dont matter nearly as much as house who ticket sales. And as mentioned network subscriptions. Ratings mean dick because cable is a vast wasteland. And in seemingly every conference call Vince or hhh address this verbatim. Of course they're not going to go 'Oh *bleep*, people aren't watching the show we're dependent on as a way to maintain brand awareness and get people to attend live events!' on a call designed to stop people selling their stock. Cable is a wasteland and all the factors leading to that have been in play for years, yet the WWE's rapid decline, ratings wise, is a recent thing, they were kings of the wasteland but it looks like if this keeps going, they won't be before their contract with USA is up. The WWE need high, stable ratings for Raw as it's all the program has going for it, big ticket advertisers don't want to pay to be a part of the WWE brand but it gives networks like USA the opportunity to crow about being #1 on a given night. The WWE may pretend that Raw ratings isn't important but they need the exposure and the income they get from broadcasters, look at the hit they took when they didn't get the increase on that front they had hoped for, they're not going to get the deal they have next time around if ratings continue to decline and reality TV will become more and more tempting to USA. If getting people to come to live events was really the focus of the company, their core goal, there is absolutely no way whatsoever they would have spent as much time building the company around part timers as they have over the past decade, guys that work TV dates and PPVs with house show appearances a rare novelty, from Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker to Rock and Brock, people who will not work the shows that make the bulk of their money, while downplaying 90% of the guys that do.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Dec 2, 2015 11:19:01 GMT -5
They don't care about ratings. They care about ticket sales. Only because all their major tv deals are locked in for another year or two. When it comes time to renegotiate with USA end of 2016/start of 2017 they will be throwing everything they have at TV unless by some miracle the Network has 3 or 4 times the current base and can support RAW. They cannot afford to lose the hundreds of millions they're getting from USA for RAW and USA ain't going to be paying that much for a show that is plummeting in the ratings and won't keep them at number 1.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Dec 2, 2015 11:27:54 GMT -5
So what do they do at this point? Honestly dragging nostalgia out of the mothballs for a temp pop is all about dried up. They've made the majority of the roster look like they're all midcardrrs. Wins don't matter, nobody gets "pushed" they get placed into a random midcard feud until they get drawn into the world title picture.
Mitb has turned from a cool idea to something that's more of a drain on the shows. Outside the actual cash in it has a negative impact on the overall booking.
They don't seem to be gearing their program towards any specific group. Is it a show for little kids, adolescents or adults? It just appears to be a program where the end goal every week is to make sure they fill up their three hours
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Dec 2, 2015 11:32:58 GMT -5
Because to be frank, most people would rather turn their face to the window. or to the wall. Or to the sweatdrop down my balls.
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Post by "Mr Wonderdick" Dick Dastardly on Dec 2, 2015 11:36:21 GMT -5
There's definitely going to be no quick fix for this. Personally, I think it would take YEARS of consistently strong writing and storylines up and down the roster for there to be results from it down the line, AND EVEN THEN it would probably take a metric f***ton of luck as well. Folks here keep assuming that wholesale changes like Vince leaving and pushing new people will solve everything. Wrong. It's going to take quite a while for things to get to the level people want. You going to get low ratings with your faves on top. Will people gleeful cheer for a 1.5 when it's Zayn vs Rollins as the top program. No but that's going to be a realistic number. Nothing is a quick fix outside of the things people hate. The return of the Rock. Brock Lesnar holding the WWE world title and disappearing. CenaMania. People go on about WWE dying but it is traditional cable and satellite tv that is dying. Only a few shows still pull in huge numbers. While we laugh at Raw numbers dropping, it is still one of the most top rated shows on cable. WWE's overall business is still healthy. Once stuff start to effect the bottomline is when changes will happen. But will people have the patience to wait it out? Doubtful. WWWWHHHHAAAA??? You mean giving Kevin Owens all of the titles and build to a Kevin Owens/Cesaro match for the title in the main event of Wrestlemania won't take them back to the glory years of the mid-late 80s and late 90s?!?!?!?!?
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,552
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 2, 2015 11:40:23 GMT -5
Taking a gander at the 'Raw Viewership thread', the numbers don't look as awful as predicted
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Dec 2, 2015 11:41:25 GMT -5
Let me know when Vince shows up with apple bottom jeans and boot with the fur
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 11:58:17 GMT -5
It's getting tougher and tougher to be neutral around here. Everyone's either ripping WWE to shreds over ratings, or talking shit about the people ripping WWE to shreds over ratings.
Well maybe not tougher, I guess more like less fun.
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