Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,584
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Post by Burst on Jan 3, 2016 20:01:32 GMT -5
Let me just say that the nickname the militia dudes have apparently been bestowed on social media nearly made me spit out my drink laughing.
Let's hear it for "Y'all-Qaeda".
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2016 20:25:59 GMT -5
The federal building in question looks like a gift shop.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Jan 3, 2016 20:30:16 GMT -5
Let me just say that the nickname the militia dudes have apparently been bestowed on social media nearly made me spit out my drink laughing. Let's hear it for "Y'all-Qaeda". That's outstanding.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jan 3, 2016 20:41:58 GMT -5
The fact they were released and now are being told they have to go back to me is bothersome. I don't know the facts and understand not to get political. So I'll leave if at that.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on Jan 3, 2016 20:42:42 GMT -5
Let me just say that the nickname the militia dudes have apparently been bestowed on social media nearly made me spit out my drink laughing. Let's hear it for "Y'all-Qaeda". That's outstanding. One great combo I've seen is #Yallqaeda waging #Yeehawd on behalf of the #Talibundy.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jan 3, 2016 20:52:41 GMT -5
So this lot are Soverign Citizens correct? And also, why weren't this lot classified as terrorists from the get-go? They have threatened to kill people and that is kinda a terrorist thing.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on Jan 3, 2016 20:53:17 GMT -5
The fact they were released and now are being told they have to go back to me is bothersome. I don't know the facts and understand not to get political. So I'll leave if at that. The original sentence is reported to be invalid, as it was shorter than the mandatory minimum. Thus, more to serve.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jan 3, 2016 20:56:20 GMT -5
The fact they were released and now are being told they have to go back to me is bothersome. I don't know the facts and understand not to get political. So I'll leave if at that. The original sentence is reported to be invalid, as it was shorter than the mandatory minimum. Thus, more to serve. I understand that.i guess to me if they served and released then they should be done. It is not their fault the judge screwed up. To their credit they agreed to go back. From what I've read they were sentenced to starting a fire in their ranch. If that's the case if being in their own property then I find the entire thing bad. But again I do not know all the facts. At this point the protesters have not been violent and until such time they are within their rights. The building was empty so they didn't threaten anyone.
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Post by J Lee O'Brien on Jan 3, 2016 21:01:41 GMT -5
The original sentence is reported to be invalid, as it was shorter than the mandatory minimum. Thus, more to serve. I understand that.i guess to me if they served and released then they should be done. It is not their fault the judge screwed up. To their credit they agreed to go back. From what I've read they were sentenced to starting a fire in their ranch. If that's the case if being in their own property then I find the entire thing bad. But again I do not know all the facts. At this point the protesters have not been violent and until such time they are within their rights. The building was empty so they didn't threaten anyone. From what I've read, which could be wrong, the fires were on Federal land near the ranch. First was to cover up alleged deer poaching, while the second was to act as a fire line. Unfortunately, said fire line inadvertantly put firefighters at risk. And yes, they've not threatened any one that works there, but there are confirmed reports (I believe) of either Ammon Bundy or another occupant stating that they will shoot any one that interferes on behalf of the Government, or something to that effect.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Jan 3, 2016 21:11:53 GMT -5
Let me just say that the nickname the militia dudes have apparently been bestowed on social media nearly made me spit out my drink laughing. Let's hear it for "Y'all-Qaeda". That is amazing.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jan 3, 2016 21:41:19 GMT -5
The original sentence is reported to be invalid, as it was shorter than the mandatory minimum. Thus, more to serve. I understand that.i guess to me if they served and released then they should be done. It is not their fault the judge screwed up. To their credit they agreed to go back. From what I've read they were sentenced to starting a fire in their ranch. If that's the case if being in their own property then I find the entire thing bad. But again I do not know all the facts. At this point the protesters have not been violent and until such time they are within their rights. The building was empty so they didn't threaten anyone. The judge violated federal law with his original sentencing. He gave the two over three years less than the mandatory minimum on a judgement call, which was overturned on appeal because judges cannot violate statute on judgement calls. The fires were set on federal property and put lives at risk. The protesters have taken over federal property and have said they will get violent if approached. They are led by known militants who are against any involvement by federal forces, due to not understanding the concept of federal supremacy. If they do act violently, they are terrorists and should be treated as such.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
Posts: 61,988
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Jan 3, 2016 21:53:33 GMT -5
I also like Yokelharam or VanillaISIS
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 3, 2016 21:59:57 GMT -5
I can't believe I read all 3 pages and never got to where these assholes got blowd up!
I thought this was murrica?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jan 3, 2016 22:22:30 GMT -5
I can't believe I read all 3 pages and never got to where these assholes got blowd up! I thought this was murrica? To be fair, the feds are trying to avoid another Waco at all costs.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jan 3, 2016 22:26:12 GMT -5
I understand that.i guess to me if they served and released then they should be done. It is not their fault the judge screwed up. To their credit they agreed to go back. From what I've read they were sentenced to starting a fire in their ranch. If that's the case if being in their own property then I find the entire thing bad. But again I do not know all the facts. At this point the protesters have not been violent and until such time they are within their rights. The building was empty so they didn't threaten anyone. The judge violated federal law with his original sentencing. He gave the two over three years less than the mandatory minimum on a judgement call, which was overturned on appeal because judges cannot violate statute on judgement calls. The fires were set on federal property and put lives at risk. The protesters have taken over federal property and have said they will get violent if approached. They are led by known militants who are against any involvement by federal forces, due to not understanding the concept of federal supremacy. If they do act violently, they are terrorists and should be treated as such. If at such time they show violence I fully agree with you.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 3, 2016 22:32:12 GMT -5
I understand that.i guess to me if they served and released then they should be done. It is not their fault the judge screwed up. To their credit they agreed to go back. From what I've read they were sentenced to starting a fire in their ranch. If that's the case if being in their own property then I find the entire thing bad. But again I do not know all the facts. At this point the protesters have not been violent and until such time they are within their rights. The building was empty so they didn't threaten anyone. The judge violated federal law with his original sentencing. He gave the two over three years less than the mandatory minimum on a judgement call, which was overturned on appeal because judges cannot violate statute on judgement calls. The fires were set on federal property and put lives at risk. The protesters have taken over federal property and have said they will get violent if approached. They are led by known militants who are against any involvement by federal forces, due to not understanding the concept of federal supremacy. If they do act violently, they are terrorists and should be treated as such. This is the crux of it. Like I said earlier, I don't like mandatory minimum sentencing, especially for nonviolent crimes (granted, arson isn't a nonviolent crime but yeah). But if it's on the books, it's the judge's duty to follow it and not make a judgment call counter to it. To the ranchers' credit, they plan on going back to prison without a fight and don't want to be associated with the Yeehawd being waged in their name. There's also quite a bit of difference between protesting and armed insurrection. Yokel Haram here is doing the latter and basically hijacking these folks' cases to further their own radical agenda, as there isn't a single person from the area who is among their ranks. If they wanted to picket outside the courthouse with signs and chants and the like, that would be well within their rights. Taking over a federal building and threatening to kill anyone from the government or law enforcement who comes near is criminal. Acting on those threats is domestic terrorism.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Jan 3, 2016 22:48:16 GMT -5
Three things, first I think this article from Esquire hits a lot of the points for ya'll that don't want to surf through everything on this and while I admit it reads left leaning politically, I think it covers the bases. Second, this relates to the article I linked above, I think calling these guys domestic terrorists is slightly misleading. Sure, does it fit in the vague definition? Yeah, if it makes you feel better or help you justify your anger toward these people to call them domestic terrorists I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. I personally believe terms like armed seditionist or armed insurrectionist fit them more aptly. The reason I bring this up is because the United States Federal Criminal Code has a section devoted to crimes against the government which you can find right here and some of these actions taken in Oregon may fall underneath these charges. Lastly, as much as we want to equate this stuff and compare it to Ferguson and BLM and other instances like that, it has to handled differently. The main difference is that to those that were outraged by the events in Missouri and across the country with race related crimes, we can all kinda look at the system and accept, "Yeah, this is f***ed up and we need to change it." We can see what went wrong there and that it needs to be changed. The difference is that the people who are supporting this movement in Oregon don't see it like that. They have this reading on the Constitution in their mind that is so twisted and wrong from the actual law that any attempt to use force against these idiots will lead to more instances of this happening with actual violence. You make these people into martyrs for a group that wants to go to war, which will only lead to new violence and that's something we sure as hell don't want.
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Post by Sparvid on Jan 3, 2016 22:51:33 GMT -5
If there are no hostages involved, is there anything stopping the police from setting up a parameter far away, cutting the water & power, not letting anyone in, and arresting anyone who wants to leave?
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Jan 3, 2016 22:56:49 GMT -5
Lastly, as much as we want to equate this stuff and compare it to Ferguson and BLM and other instances like that, it has to handled differently. The main difference is that to those that were outraged by the events in Missouri and across the country with race related crimes, we can all kinda look at the system and accept, "Yeah, this is f***ed up and we need to change it." We can see what went wrong there and that it needs to be changed. The difference is that the people who are supporting this movement in Oregon don't see it like that. They have this reading on the Constitution in their mind that is so twisted and wrong from the actual law that any attempt to use force against these idiots will lead to more instances of this happening with actual violence. You make these people into martyrs for a group that wants to go to war, which will only lead to new violence and that's something we sure as hell don't want. Well that's no fun. Who knew it was so easy and painless to conquer these United States.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,359
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 3, 2016 23:04:13 GMT -5
If there are no hostages involved, is there anything stopping the police from setting up a parameter far away, cutting the water & power, not letting anyone in, and arresting anyone who wants to leave? Remember the mess with the Bundy Clan last time? They got more and more armed people showing up in support of them as time went on. They called for such support now. If you start a non-violent siege that lasts any significant period of time you will find that there will have armed supporters showing up with the intent to join them, with some of them likely willing to shoot their way in. It can't be easy to barricade the LEOs manning the perimeter to protect them from threats both within the perimeter and from outside as well. This is a powderkeg that seems destined to end very badly.
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