Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon

[Deleted]

A protest in support of Oregon ranchers facing jail time for arson has escalated into an armed takeover of a federal wildlife building and an anti-government call-to-arms.

The protest and takeover is being led by Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a previous standoff with the government over grazing rights, and two of his brothers. The brothers are calling on anti-government militia members from all over the country to join the seize of the headquarters building of the remote Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, some 300 miles southeast of Portland.



A protest in support of Oregon ranchers facing jail time for arson has escalated into an armed takeover of a federal wildlife building and an anti-government call-to-arms.

The protest and takeover is being led by Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a previous standoff with the government over grazing rights, and two of his brothers. The brothers are calling on anti-government militia members from all over the country to join the seize of the headquarters building of the remote Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, some 300 miles southeast of Portland.

Les Zaitz/The Oregonian via AP
Protesters march on Court Avenue in support of an Oregon ranching family facing more
"We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," Ammon Bundy told TheOregonian on Saturday. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute."
Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help. He said, "This is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns, Ore., the nearest town, is located.
The occupation came after an estimated 300 marchers — militia and local citizens — paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr., 73, and Steven Hammond, 46, who are to report to prison Monday, according to The Oregonian.
The pair said they lit the fires in 2001 and 2006 to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires. They were convicted of the arsons three years ago and served time — the father three months, the son one year.
But a judge ruled their terms were too short under federal law and ordered them back to prison for about four years each. Dwight Hammond has said he and his son plan to peacefully report to prison Monday as the judge ordered.
The new sentences generated controversy with Bundy and some far right groups that repudiate U.S. federal authority. Saturday's protest started peacefully but soon led to the takeover of the refuge headquarters.
In an interview with reporters late Saturday night posted on Facebook, Bundy said he and others occupied the building because "the people have been abused long enough."
"I feel we are in a situation where if we do not do something, if we do not take a hard stand, we'll be in a position where we'll be no longer able to do so," he said.
Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward told people to stay away from the building as authorities work to defuse the situation, The Oregonian reported.
"A collective effort from multiple agencies is currently working on a solution. For the time being please stay away from that area. More information will be provided as it becomes available. Please maintain a peaceful and united front and allow us to work through this situation," Ward said in a statement.

more in link
www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/03/militia-members-occupy-us-building-in-oregon-after-protest/78226600/

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Needless to say there's been ALOT of criticism thrown towards how the media and police are handling this in contrast to other recent situations.

[SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts]

I don't think the Bundys are connected to the Hammonds aside from appropriating their situation and using it for their own agenda. Especially since the Hammonds are surrendering peacefully to serve out their sentance.

[ICBM]

The Sovereign Citizen movement is a damn foolish enterprise that is nothing more than a nucience to law enforcement. They effect zero change and inspire nothing once the casual onlookers figure out they have been duped by dissidents and con-men.

[Burst]

A few months ago, there was a Sovereign Citizen attempt to take over the West Virginia state capitol that got cut off at the planning phase. Guy was based about 20 minutes south of me. I'll just say that his plans were... charmingly ambitious.

[Limity (BLM)]

Of course this situation is being treated differently from Baltimore and Ferguson, because this situation is nothing like Baltimore and Ferguson.

[SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman]

Jan 3, 2016 12:41:29 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Of course this situation is being treated differently from Baltimore and Ferguson, because this situation is nothing like Baltimore and Ferguson.

Yes, these people are explicitly armed and threatening, so obviously there's time for negotiation here.

[Jeff Mangum PI]

Sound like a bunch of terrorists that need to be taken down.

[ICBM]

Jan 3, 2016 12:46:22 GMT -5 SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman said:

Jan 3, 2016 12:41:29 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Of course this situation is being treated differently from Baltimore and Ferguson, because this situation is nothing like Baltimore and Ferguson.

Yes, these people are explicitly armed and threatening, so obviously there's time for negotiation here.

Oregon is waiting on the Feds. The local boys just cannot pull this one off. So no I don't think an immediate counter strike was likely or smart.

[Limity (BLM)]

Jan 3, 2016 12:46:22 GMT -5 SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman said:

Jan 3, 2016 12:41:29 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Of course this situation is being treated differently from Baltimore and Ferguson, because this situation is nothing like Baltimore and Ferguson.

Yes, these people are explicitly armed and threatening, so obviously there's time for negotiation here.

And are contained, with no known desire to spread out from where they are. Are they as many as the protesters in Baltimore and Ferguson?

How many standoffs with "explicitly armed and threatening" persons through the years have there been and law enforcement followed this exact procedure, of containment and waiting it out?

[ICBM]

Waco? That turned ok right?

[Limity (BLM)]

Jan 3, 2016 13:00:27 GMT -5 ICBM said:

Waco? That turned ok right?

How long did that siege last, specifically because the feds attempted to contain and outlast them?

Yeah, the outcome was terrible. If anything, Waco should reinforce the contain and outlast strategy currently being employed in Oregon.

[ICBM]

Jan 3, 2016 13:06:32 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

Jan 3, 2016 13:00:27 GMT -5 ICBM said:

Waco? That turned ok right?

How long did that siege last, specifically because the feds attempted to contain and outlast them?

Yeah, the outcome was terrible. If anything, Waco should reinforce the contain and outlast strategy currently being employed in Oregon.

Oh no no, don't mistake me. At present they are doing exactly as they are able and is prudent. I just wanted to float a reminder of the worse end of these kind of situations. The nation was fortunate the Bundy Ranch situation did not go that way and honestly the luckiest were the protesters. A cadre were likely very willing to die for their cause but a slaughter was not on the minds of the Johnny come lately crowd who showed up after being bull shitted by social media into having sympathy for a criminal

[Sephiroth]

Jan 3, 2016 12:23:55 GMT -5 SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts said:

I don't think the Bundys are connected to the Hammonds aside from appropriating their situation and using it for their own agenda. Especially since the Hammonds are surrendering peacefully to serve out their sentance.

I have to agree that the situation is f***** up because those guys already served their time for a relatively minor offense, to say they need to go back and do more is outrageous. But I give them all the kudos that they are handing it peacefully and don't seem to want anything to do with the likes of those weirdos.

[Limity (BLM)]

Jan 3, 2016 13:12:43 GMT -5 ICBM said:

Jan 3, 2016 13:06:32 GMT -5 Limity (BLM) said:

How long did that siege last, specifically because the feds attempted to contain and outlast them?

Yeah, the outcome was terrible. If anything, Waco should reinforce the contain and outlast strategy currently being employed in Oregon.

Oh no no, don't mistake me. At present they are doing exactly as they are able and is prudent. I just wanted to float a reminder of the worse end of these kind of situations. The nation was fortunate the Bundy Ranch situation did not go that way and honestly the luckiest were the protesters. A cadre were likely very willing to die for their cause but a slaughter was not on the minds of the Johnny come lately crowd who showed up after being bull shitted by social media into having sympathy for a criminal

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, this situation is so completely different from a riot situation that there's obviously an agenda behind those trying to find fault in what LE is doing at the moment.

[lodirulz]

Jan 3, 2016 12:48:04 GMT -5 Jeff Mangum PI said:

Sound like a bunch of terrorists that need to be taken down.

That's exactly what this is. A reporter from Oregon actually was able to contact a member of The Bundy Family, and he said that it doesn't matter who tries to stop the situation, local authorities, state authorities, federal authorities, authorities from another country, they WILL shoot them down. And they said that the authorities will not regain control of the building unless either the jail sentences are dropped completely, or every one of them inside the building is dead.

[Limity (BLM)]

Jan 3, 2016 13:23:30 GMT -5 lodirulz said:

Jan 3, 2016 12:48:04 GMT -5 Jeff Mangum PI said:

Sound like a bunch of terrorists that need to be taken down.

That's exactly what this is. A reporter from Oregon actually was able to contact a member of The Bundy Family, and he said that it doesn't matter who tries to stop the situation, local authorities, state authorities, federal authorities, authorities from another country, they WILL shoot them down.

Well damn, scrap plans to send in the French Foreign Legion.

That last bit almost makes it sound like a Tully Blanchard promo. "You send all those risky business boys!"

[Burst]

Jan 3, 2016 13:23:30 GMT -5 lodirulz said:

That's exactly what this is. A reporter from Oregon actually was able to contact a member of The Bundy Family, and he said that it doesn't matter who tries to stop the situation, local authorities, state authorities, federal authorities, authorities from another country, they WILL shoot them down. And they said that the authorities will not regain control of the building unless either the jail sentences are dropped completely, or every one of them inside the building is dead.

Well, I can pretty much guess how this is going to end.

The frustrating part is that it comes off like they're deliberately setting themselves up as martyrs for the militia/sovereign citizen types to idolize.

[Cyno]

We don't negotiate with terrorists. Unless they're white.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

I do get the authorities wanting to approach the situation as tentatively as possible. There's only so much that can be done as of now that won't send everything spiraling out of control.

But as for the anger at the media's initial reluctance to label the occupiers as "terrorists", which is what they are, that I also completely understand. That's why Ferguson, Baltimore, etc. are also being mentioned in context to this incident- it isn't fair that rioters, more often than not acting out of a sense of righteous anger over unjust actions, social issues or decisions, get targeted by many people with the "dumb thug" label, while mostly-white militia folk trying to essentially initiate armed insurrection rarely get the same types of labelling, stereotyping and condemnation that many nonwhite individuals who commit violent acts do. That speaks to something profoundly wrong with how news organizations cover incidents such as these, something that desperately needs to change.

Luckily the rise of social media is helping in that regard, but it's still pretty much chipping away at a big rock.

I'm not trying to imply that there's a deliberate "muhahaha!" organized racist conspiracy among the media, but there's something messed up subconsciously on how these things have been portrayed, and I think it's good more of us are becoming aware of it.

People had similar concerns when the tragedy in Charleston occurred last year. There was an enormous amount of grassroots pressure to get the major newspapers and networks to properly label the shooter, who openly admitted to targeting his victims because they were black, as exactly what he was, a domestic terrorist. That shouldn't have even been necessary, and that's why there's a sense of initial cynicism and frustration regarding the coverage.

It's like, so how are you guys going to handle THIS one?

[SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts]

Jan 3, 2016 13:18:35 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

Jan 3, 2016 12:23:55 GMT -5 SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts said:

I don't think the Bundys are connected to the Hammonds aside from appropriating their situation and using it for their own agenda. Especially since the Hammonds are surrendering peacefully to serve out their sentance.

I have to agree that the situation is f***** up because those guys already served their time for a relatively minor offense, to say they need to go back and do more is outrageous. But I give them all the kudos that they are handing it peacefully and don't seem to want anything to do with the likes of those weirdos.

I definitely agree. They fulfilled their sentences, I'm not sure they paid their fine, but if they did then it shouldn't be decided later that 3 months and 1 year weren't enough the first time. I won't condon arson or destruction of property, but this didn't result in any injuries so why are they bringing it back other than the Hammonds and Bureau of Land Management/US Fish and Wildlife have had problems for years. Not to paint the Hammonds as complete underdog good guys, they probably did violate the agreements of cattle grazing within the Refuge and most seriosuly, Dwight Hammond allegedly sent death threats to Refuge Managers.

The means this happened also confuses me. US Court of Appeals threw out their original sentences for being too lenient, but why did they see it in the first place? Wouldn't this fall under double jeopardy, protection against reprosecution after conviction? They were able to get away with it so maybe they found a loophole that me, a layman in the subject of law, would not know.